Biggest disappointments from established teams?

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 10:53am

Thinking about that category of show where on paper it looks like you can’t miss, but then in reality the outcome is less than great. What are some of your faves (or least faves)?

 

THE GOODBYE GIRL: Neil Simon adapting his own play, score by Marvin Hamlisch & David Zippel, choreo by Graciela Daniele, directed by Gene Saks (later replaced by Michael Kidd), starring Martin Short & Bernadette Peters. 188 perfs. 

NICK & NORA: book & direction by Arthur Laurents, a tuneful score by Charles Strouse & Richard Maltby; starring Barry Bostwick (in his return to musicals), Joanna Gleason, and a great musical comedy cast; source material that should have translated well to the stage but didn’t. 9 performances, a staggering 71 previews.

ME & JULIET: this one ran 10 months but on paper one would have higher expectations of Rodgers & Hammerstein (at the peak of their powers) paired with George Abbott. I guess you could add R&H’s ALLEGRO and PIPE DREAM to this list too.

CATCH ME IF YOU CAN, WOMEN ON THE VERGE, and of course MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG are bigger cult objects than the ones above, but the original runs were still big financial misses considering the pedigrees the creative teams were building upon, the source material (and, in two cases, casts of buzzy musical theatre people).

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:05am

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (admittedly I saw this in London and not here, but I believe it was still a let down for most).

Bullets Over Broadway (no original songs but the team behind it was greater than the sum of its parts).

Come to think of it, almost anything Susan Stroman has done since The Producers…

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:10am

If/Then

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:11am

The direction and choreo was the best thing about Bullets over Broadway.  People have been pooping on Susan Stroman since nyny, and I agree it was dreadful, but the woman knows what she’s doing when she has good material.  I have high hopes for Smash and Little Dancer. Also wandering if that revival of Crazy for You will come over

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:33am

War Paint comes to mind.

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:38am

Call_me_jorge said: "War Paint comes to mind."

Agreed, I’d forgotten about this one. After the absolutely alchemic perfection of Grey Gardens, War Paint was truly a distant second. 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:38am

Women on the Verge is actually the biggest disappointment I can think of. I’m the biggest fan of Almodóvar ever, and I worship LuPone and Sherie. I was so excited for that show and it was a huge mess.

 

Luckily they recorded the album and the score is mostly fantastic despite not serving the piece at all.

[JoeW4]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:41am

One notable example was Do I Hear A Waltz, with Sondheim, Richard Rodgers, and Arthur Laurents. It was before my time, so maybe I shouldn't speak on it -- but it's widely regarded as an artistic failure, including by Sondheim himself IIRC.

And it seems like a great case study of why these disappointments can happen: when collaborations happen for the wrong reasons, and when you have people are great artists individually but not necessarily well-matched with each other.

[quizking101]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:54am

New York, New York

Considering the individual pedigrees of Susan Stroman, Kander & Ebb, and Lin-Manuel Miranda, this had the potential to be something absolutely alchemical, and instead ended up as pedestrian as a 42nd St. sludge puddle…

Plaza Suite (2022 Revival)

This was John Benjamin Hickey’s directorial debut, but I don’t think he alone was responsible for fumbling the bag. I think between Neil Simon’s dated writing and Matthew Broderick’s stiff, near robotic performance and SJP’s resulting overcompensation, it all fell painfully flat

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 1:52pm

Mrs. Doubtfire: O'Farrell and the Kirkpatrick Bros struck gold with Something Rotten, and Doubtfire should have been a slam dunk. It's the perfect material to musicalize, and the result was just so bland.

[jagman106]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 2:12pm

Reading the original post, I immediately thought of Elaine Stritch discussing the musical "Goldilocks" in "Elaine Stritch at Liberty" when she remarked about the show flopping after naming the creatives.

Although it closed before I was able to see it, I would say the musical version of "The Visit." I was intrigued (after all, Kander & Ebb, McNally, Doyle, Daniele, Chita, Rees, other Broadway vets), but so many people told me they left the show bewildered or unsatisfied. Based on WOM, I delayed getting a ticket. The early closing cemented that deal. 

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 02:12 PM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 2:49pm

• Have to start with Merrily.  Such a disaster that Prince and Sondheim never worked together again.
• Mr. President.  Huge advance.  Irving Berlin’s return.  Josh Logan directing, Lindsey and Crouse writing the book.  How could it fail?  It ran awhile because of its advance, but was a disaster.  I didn’t see it (the only one on this list I did not see) but it was ‘general’ newsworthy in its day. 
• Mack and Mabel— Jerry Herman, Gower Champion, Robert Preston.  Also had BP, but she was newish, with few credentials.  Probably the biggest disappointment that I saw, because the story was never gonna work, unless perhaps done out of chronological order, with a better book writer.
• Prettybelle — Jules Styne / Gower Champion / Angela Lansbury, based on a best-selling book.  Wasn’t entirely terrible.  Lansbury had one of her best numbers in any show (When I’m Drunk) and some of the music was really good, but the story was too out there, and Champion was not the right director for a show that would have been suited to the Booth.
• 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.  iCreative’s list not as impressive, with a but.  Bernstein and Lerner together for the first time.  History has shown that much of the music and lyrics were gorgeous, but everything else was a mess.  I saw this and hated it almost as much as I hated Merrily.  Patricia Rutledge was amazing as the presidential wives.  She had two numbers that I will never forget: one a comedy duet between two First Ladies, another a serious song about protecting ‘this house’.  It was truly a mess and I doubt that it would ever work, even with a great book writer and director / choreographer.  It was always going to be too episodic.
• Dear World.  Jerry Herman, Lawrence and Lee, Joe Layton (not the original director, however), coming right after Mame).  I loved this show, but knew it had problems.  Ironically, the show was at its best in its Boston tryouts.  The scene that includes ‘Each Tomorrow Morning’ in Boston was one of the most perfect scenes I have ever seen.  Alas, they changed it for NY.  I played the album constantly, even though I always thought that the title song was one of the dumbest ever written by A major composer, although I enjoyed listening to its chorale and tried to ignore the lyrics.
• Who to Love / Cry for Us All.  This was the musical that followed Man of La Mancha for the entire creative set for that show, even including Joan Diener in the cast.  50 plus years ago, I still remember half a dozen songs, even though I only saw it once in Boston.  The set design by Howard Bay remains a ‘top 25’ of all the shows I have ever seen.  Somewhere along the way, they changed the title For Broadway.  I am pretty sure it was called Cry for Us All in Boston.  This is making me think that I will go back to the NYTimes archives, to read why the critics thought it was so bad.
• Almost belongs on this list, but not really.  Ballroom.  Michael Bennett’s first show after A Chorus Line and Dorothy Loudon’s after Annie.  The other creatives were not impressive, but Bennett’s name made this a must see.   Before it opened.  Just a really dull show.  I remember the curtain call being almost embarrassing for the cast, because the applause were so tepid, for a sold out performance at the Majestic.

Correcting some grammar, I realize that I slightly misinterpreted the topic, but I will leave it.  This overall would be better suited to a topic “shows that had incredibly high expectations because of their creative teams,  but missed.  Only some that I listed were from established teams.  Sorry.

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 02:49 PM

[mridley2]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 2:58pm

Crazy For You I really enjoyed in London but it did not take off despite decent reviews. Charley Stemp was as charming as ever but by the end of the run they were offering all seats for $30-$50 and still had trouble filling the house.  It was a financial flop for sure. Luckily i was capitalized for a lot less than the $20 million that would be required for Broadway.

 

edit to add: Plaza Suite was a huge hit. I believe it extended it's original run on broadway. consistently grossed $1.5 million per week. Transferred to London for a 16 week run there and sold out the Savoy theater literally every night. 

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 02:58 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 3:06pm

Paul Simon’s "The Capeman".

”Viva Forever", a Mamma Mia for the  Spice Girls, but with added Jennifer Saunders. It was probably never going to be “good", but it did come with some fanfare.

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 03:06 PM

[quizking101]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 3:39pm

mridley2 said:

edit to add: Plaza Suite was a huge hit. I believe it extended its original run on broadway. consistently grossed $1.5 million per week. Transferred to London for a 16 week run there and sold out the Savoy theater literally every night."

1) The financial success came from having a Hollywood power couple team up in a show together for the first time in nearly 30 years in an accessible property by a known playwright.

2) Financial success doesn’t mean the quality was good. The reviews and word of mouth were middling at best. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 4:00pm

Disappointment or enjoyment aren’t always based on quality. Most of the ticket-buyers for Plaza Suite went purely to see a celebrity couple live and in person. No doubt they got a standing ovation every performance.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 5:03pm

"Bandstand" seemed to have a lot going for it but did not last long. Show about WWII veterans with "swing" music should have been perfect for the boomer generation that likes Broadway. Show starred Corey Cott (those arms -lol), Laura Osnes (before she became a villain to some) and Beth Leavel who are well know in Broadway community. Show got a big plug on Tony night with introduction of dance number by FLOTUS Dr. Jill Biden. Tourists may not go to a show because of an excellent choreographer but the show was choregraphed by 2 time Tony award winner before winning for "Bandstand".

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 05:03 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 6:52pm

Little Miss Sunshine. Bill Finn and James Lapine, together again, with first-rate casts both at La Jolla and 2nd Stage and a property that seemed perfectly suited to them. And what we got was a disappointing mediocrity that people scarcely even remember. 

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 06:52 PM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 8:05pm

Zeppie2022 said: ""Bandstand" seemed to have a lot going for it but did not last long. Show about WWII veterans with "swing" music should have been perfect for the boomer generation that likes Broadway. Show starred Corey Cott (those arms -lol), Laura Osnes (before she became a villain to some) and Beth Leavel who are well know in Broadway community. Show got a big plug on Tony night with introduction of dance number by FLOTUS Dr. Jill Biden. Tourists may not go to a show because of an excellent choreographer but the show was choregraphed by 2time Tony award winner before winning for "Bandstand"."

BANDSTAND is the polar opposite of what I'm talking about. It was the Broadway debut of its writing team, it had no notable individuals in its cast, and though Blankenbuehler was riding on the success of HAMILTON his one previous Broadway directorial effort was disappointing.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 8:07pm

How silly of me to forget MACK & MABEL in my original post, Jarethan!

Some great pulls here, thanks everyone!

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 9:51pm

I realize its already been said but I feel like we can't mention War Paint enough. On paper everything looked extraordinary. From creatives, to director, to casting and concept. What we ended up with was just awfully inert. Wrong choices made at every turn. Changes made from Chicago to Broadway made things worse. 

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 10:03pm

Today I learned that I’m the only one who genuinely enjoyed War Paint for what it was (and saw it four times). 😅

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 10:36pm

"”Bandstand" seemed to have a lot going for it but did not last long.””

 

In what actual universe is anybody involved with this an established team. 

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 10:36 PM

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 10:47pm

I actually really like War Paint and listen to the cast recording from time to time.  I feel like it has so much potential to be a truly great musical.  I didn’t like how they were selling it by saying it was a feud on stage between the two women, and it wasn’t actually that. that.  I think it would benefit from more of a feud and more interaction between them.  Those two duets are lovely. 

[girlcop]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:08pm

KJisgroovy said: "I realize its already been said but I feel like we can't mention War Paint enough. On paper everything looked extraordinary. From creatives, to director, to casting and concept. What we ended up with was just awfully inert. Wrong choices made at every turn. Changes made from Chicago to Broadway made things worse."

Glad I saw it in Chicago!