Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 3/5/23- Page 3

[BoringBoredBoard40]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 12:14am

DrMonicaDeMoneco said: "BoringBoredBoard40 said: "People are going to be really surprised when &Juliet takes best musical...it has more TONY voters in its Producing block then KA does...."

Don’t forget KPOP! They could win too!"

my comment was actually serious but ok

road producers who make up a large block of the voters want shows that will make them money, Strange Loop was the artistic win, &Juliet will be the financial one 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 12:49am

BoringBoredBoard40 said: "People are going to be really surprised when &Juliet takes best musical...it has more TONY voters in its Producing block then KA does...."

SOME LIKE IT HOT and BEAUTIFUL NOISE both have more co-producers than & JULIET. SLIH, BN, and KA also have the Shubert and Nederlander blocs –– and guess what, all the individuals vote different ways. ON THE TOWN had more co-pros than KING AND I; AMERICAN IN PARIS had more than FUN HOME. The argument comes up annually and doesn't really hold any weight, being that the League only makes up 50% of the voters. Every show has overlap. If you're IPN/road presenter, one could argue that JULIET will be fine on the road without a Tony win –– it's the underdog like SLIH or KA that needs more attention.

Also, unfortunate current events could give SLIH a leg up as a show that has a Black, queer, gender nonconforming character at its center. (&J also has a character like that, but it's a tertiary role at best.) That's something that the SLIH Tony campaign will no doubt highlight.

Updated On: 3/8/23 at 12:49 AM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 1:15am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Jarethan said: "You left out '...and he is not in a musical'. If an announcement was made that NL was returning in a new musical, people would be lining up."

Correct but Nathan has continually said he's done with musicals –– and perhaps the one person who could have convinced him to change his mind is exiled in Quogue. I've made peace with never seeing Nathan in another stage musical again. Or if he did do one, it would be for an ultra-limited run."

Of course, unless he is a replacement (hardly likely), no one is going to produce a show starring NL if he is only going to commit for a limited engagement. 

I guess it is possible that he might take a supporting role at some point a la LuPone in Chicago, where he does not have to carry the show.  He would be a great Horace in HD or the John Cullum role in a revival of Urinetown, to cite 2 examples.  

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 1:16am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Also, unfortunate current events could give SLIH a leg up as a show that has a Black, queer, gender nonconforming character at its center. (&J also has a character like that, but it's a tertiary role at best.) That's something that the SLIH Tony campaign will no doubt highlight."

Interestingly, someone was saying today that it might cut the other way. It seems unlikely this is going to become a hit on Broadway and its touring prospects are actually very depleted by the unfortunate current events. By the time it goes out, that ridiculous "movement" will have a head of steam in the usual states; no producer is going to test that

 

[BdwyFan]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 4:36am

Exactly my thinking.  And sadly, sometimes people may vote for those involved with the show that they actually want like, who’s nice etc. Like a popularity contest. Ah, the politics. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 6:29am

BdwyFan said: "Exactly my thinking. And sadly, sometimes people may vote for those involved with the show that they actually want like, who’s nice etc. Like a popularity contest. Ah, the politics."

If people in this industry voted for the “nice” nominee, Scott Rudin would have zero awards and Come From Away would have a (rightful) Best Musical trophy on their mantle. 

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 6:31am

Now that I'm thinking of it, the only shows that I currently have pegged to get a best musical nomination that could play in Tennesse are Kimberly Akimbo and New York, New York...

Some Like it Hote, Shucked, and &Juliet all have non-binary performers and/or characters. 

I guess Lulu in Shucked could be played by a cis woman (I believe the character is cis), but she's currently played by Alex Newell. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 11:39am

At the end of the day, the voter goes with their gut –– whether that's because they worked with someone in the past or are working with them in the future, or the person earned them money, or the show really knocked them out, or something else. Same with the Oscars and any other industry awards body.

And with the Tonys it does help that the nominators are an entirely different, smaller group than the voters.

[SisterGeorge]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 2:04pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "BoringBoredBoard40 said: "....Also, unfortunate current events could give SLIH a leg up as a show that has a Black, queer, gender nonconforming character at its center. (&J also has a character like that, but it's a tertiary role at best.) That's something that the SLIH Tony campaign will no doubt highlight."

I saw both this weekend (SLIH for the second time) and loved them equally. But throughout I kept wondering how are these two musicals going to tour to all these red states that are legally becoming more are more LGBTQIA+-phobic?

[Kad]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 2:27pm

The whole “road producers determine best musical” thing has not been accurate for a long time. If it ever was.

[pethian]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 3:00pm

Kad said: "The whole “road producers determine best musical” thing has not been accurate for a long time. If it ever was."

 

Yes, this is possibly the most overstated and over-estimated factor about the Tony voters.

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 3:03pm

Kad said: "The whole “road producers determine best musical” thing has not been accurate for a long time. If it ever was."

It felt like something Michael Riedel really ran with in the late 2000s/early 2010s.

You could argue that in seasons where there was a legit horserace between an "arty show" and a "commercial/populist/feel-good show", the latter won in 2013 (Kinky over Matilda), 2010 (Memphis over Fela), 2009 (Billy Elliot over N2N), 2008 (In The Heights over Passing Strange), 2006 (Jersey Boys over Drowsy Chap), and 2005 (Spamalot over Piazza or Spelling Bee). But then there were plenty of other years where the riskier show won (Spring Awakening, Once, Gents Guide, Fun Home, Band's Visit, Hadestown, Avenue Q, Strange Loop, etc). So it's really a crapshoot.

Also of note:

– In the 2008-09 season, the Tonys stopped allowing members of the NY Drama Critics Circle to vote, which was about 100 people. So there became this thing in the press that the Tonys were commercial-minded and thus Billy won over N2N. But the NYDCC vote was reinstated for the 2010-11 season and remains today. So it's kind of a load of BS.

– In 2012-13, there was scuttlebut that the RSC had pissed off a lot of producers and theatre owners by dangling Matilda in front of them before they ultimately chose the Dodgers and Shubert. But this happens every time there's a big hit London show seeking American partners. Once again, a Riedel narrative that stuck.

Updated On: 3/8/23 at 03:03 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 3:24pm

The narrative that Avenue Q won Best Musical by promising to tour has also stuck around. 

[BoringBoredBoard40]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 3:30pm

So it is just a coincidence that most shows still announce their national touring intentions right around when TONY season starts?

Updated On: 3/8/23 at 03:30 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 3:32pm

Seems like with any awards it is all political.

But of the "big" shows to win, the only one that I think is just crap is Memphis. But I didn't much care for Fela either. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 3:41pm

BoringBoredBoard40 said: "So it is just a coincidence that most shows still announce their national touring intentions right around when TONY season starts?"

Of course not –– there's still a HOPE that it will make a difference. And it might in fact help persuade some voters, it just doesn't cause change on a grand scale. Every show wants to tour because that's where the real money is, and it can be much easier to recoup on the road because of guarantees.

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 4:39pm

I think, overall, people just need to understand that there is not one particular thing that entirley determines how people vote (and that goes for the Tonys and for many other things). 

These votes definitley don't happen in a vacuum. Theatre politics (e.g. a voter's relationship with a show and its producers) definitley plays into it and voters definitley do consider the potential touring viability of a production. I'm sure sometimes it's a gut decision or based off of vibes too. 

However people are deciding, the idea that the vast majority of the voters are single-factor voters is just silly to me. I truly believe most of them are considering the quality of the show alognside other factors when voting. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 4:49pm

Just one observation re this discussion of out of town voters. Good producers never discount ANY potential ticket buyer or likewise any potential Tony voter. So while it is true some shows are more likely to sell on tour, and those votes may not drive any result, when you have very few votes between the winner and the loser(s), you may need those road votes desperately. Smart producing 101.

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 3/8/23 at 7:04pm

jkcohen626 said: "Now that I'm thinking of it, the only shows that I currently have pegged to get a best musical nomination that could play in Tennesse are Kimberly Akimbo and New York, New York...

Some Like it Hote, Shucked, and &Juliet all have non-binary performers and/or characters.

I guess Lulu in Shucked could be played by a cis woman (I believe the character is cis), but she's currently played by Alex Newell."

Interesting and made me think: here's hoping that each and every one of these production teams LOUDLY announces that due to these laws, they will not be booking a single date in Tennessee. Rough for the substantial sane minority in that state, but no other way to get TN voters (Or GA voters, or FL voters) than cutting off the largely-non-voting-apathetics from things they might enjoy. If a drag queen can't perform in Memphis, or a schoolkid cant talk about being gay in Tampa, the reaction should be a total cultural boycott.  I sure as hell hope we don't see any efforts to cis-up any roles to appease these neanderthals. 

[David10086]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 5:30pm

Back to the drop that the theaters took this past week at most of the shows - don't forget that school vacation week was over and the families went home. Makes sense for the drop in family musicals such as 'Harry Potter', 'Wicked', etc. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 6:19pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "jkcohen626 said: "Now that I'm thinking of it, the only shows that I currently have pegged to get a best musical nomination that could play in Tennesse are Kimberly Akimbo and New York, New York...

Some Like it Hote, Shucked, and &Juliet all have non-binary performers and/or characters.

I guess Lulu in Shucked could be played by a cis woman (I believe the character is cis), but she's currently played by Alex Newell."

Interesting and made me think: here's hoping that each and every one of these production teams LOUDLY announces that due to these laws, they will not be booking a single date in Tennessee. Rough for the substantial sane minority in that state, but no other way to get TN voters (Or GA voters, or FL voters) than cutting off the largely-non-voting-apathetics from things they might enjoy. If a drag queen can't perform in Memphis, or a schoolkid cant talk about being gay in Tampa, the reaction should be a total cultural boycott. I sure as hell hope we don't see any efforts to cis-up any roles to appease these neanderthals."

I love this and this is the level of petty I am. But sadly it’s still a business and the business needs to make money. So not sure how much of a sustainable model that would be given I’m sure Florida alone has a couple major touring spots. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 6:42pm

A pipedream that will never, ever happen: The MPA says "no movies in these states." Maybe joining forces with Live Nation and BAA and star athletes on the state's sports teams to essentially neuter all entertainment going into the states. But that means you're putting the venues out of business (pandemic all over again), the companies are leaving money on the table, and getting everyone on this side of history is easier said than done. And then there are questions of "well why was gender the tipping point here, why didn't you boycott the states for a dozen other bad decisions." And, above all, we have to remember the arts can be a healing force.

Touring stage productions alone aren't enough of an industry to make ANY sort of dent in the states governments.

Updated On: 3/9/23 at 06:42 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 3/9/23 at 9:00pm

RippedMan said: "
Interesting and made me think: here's hoping that each and every one of these production teams LOUDLY announces that due to these laws, they will not be booking a single date in Tennessee. Rough for the substantial sane minority in that state, but no other way to get TN voters (Or GA voters, or FL voters) than cutting off the largely-non-voting-apathetics from things they might enjoy. If a drag queen can't perform in Memphis, or a schoolkid cant talk about being gay in Tampa, the reaction should be a total cultural boycott. I sure as hell hope we don't see any efforts to cis-up any roles to appease these neanderthals."

I love this and this is the level of petty I am. But sadly it’s still a business and the business needs to make money. So not sure how much of a sustainable model that would be given I’m sure Florida alone has a couple major touring spots."

Yes, its a tall order to ask capitalists not to be capitalists in a capitalist society (as many routinely do all the time). And you're right it probably won't happen. But for a community so willing to cancel/punish, it IS nuts that touring companies of these shows will march into states that preach and legislate hatred of gay kids or ban drag shows as "lewd." I guess I'm saying that as nuts as it would be for Wicked or Hamilton to refuse to perform in TN or FL, isnt it just as nuts for them to show up and perform in states like that? Didn't artists stand up and refuse to perform in the Jim Crow South? 

Sigh. I don't know. But the notion that show like SLIH would alter its content/message/casting to appease the mouth-breathing MAGA monsters enrages me.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/10/23 at 12:28am

This subject is more complicated that what you are sketching out. There are a few things I would say:

1. I am told by people who understand this area better than I do that the TN law will not hold up in court for a variety of reasons and that will moot that. It seems pretty clear, re this law and other horrible laws being proposed and/or passed, that there is a lot of showboating going on and that these odious people are not really interested in the substance; they want talking points and they will get them. 

2. SLIH is not going to be altered to satisfy the state (and before this subject is done, it will be a lot more states). Too many people would need to approve, not all will, and some cast and crew may well take a pass on going into these states. But the goal upfront has to be on finding a way to navigate, making assessments. And remember, it's not just the capitalists who will lose on your proposal, so will hard working union members. 

3. A boycott at this level will not, as noted above, make a dent. What works are gestures like what California just did to Walgreens. That hurts Walgreens. California and New York can hurt Tennessee. The League can't. 

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 3/10/23 at 9:05pm

While I totally support the reasons behind a boycott in the hopes that it would make a difference, it makes me sad to think of my Floridian parents - who have subscribed to the Tampa Broadway series since the mid-80s and fully support LGBT rights - never getting to see some of these great shows. They're obviously not alone, and Florida in particular, despite its current vile government, has (in its cities anyway) such a diverse population of passionate performing arts supporters who would miss out. 

In the interim, glad I got my parents tickets to SLIH when they're coming up to NYC next month (along with Kimberly Akimbo & Shucked fwiw), but what a depressing situation for arts-lovers if a boycott needs (again, understandably) to happen.

Updated On: 3/10/23 at 09:05 PM