Caroline--Why did it close?

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:26pm

I haven't seen the show, but heard LOTS of positive things about it, not just from this board, but reviewers and such.

My question is posed to those who know the show? Why do you think it closed? What about it didn't attract an audience?

I was looking forward to seeing it in December, but of course, that was before I had heard it closed. So, what went wrong?

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:27pm

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO POST SO MANY CAROLINE PAGES?!?!?!?! PUT THIS ON ANOTHER BOARD OR ON A CAROLINE APPRECIATION THREAD!!!! WE HAVE TO MAKE ROOM FOR WICKED THREADS!

[POLisPOL]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:27pm

The wicked fans.
they hate caroline or change.

[NuggetMonkeys]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:28pm

Broadway audiences are 73% tourists, and tourists are not attracted to this show, mostly because WICKED and other such spectacle-filled shows overpowered this humble, overpowering piece of musical theatre genius.
-d.b.j-

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:29pm

OK SUM,

I have to admit, that actually made me laugh.

But, really, my question is a serious one that I am curious about.

[popcultureboy]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:33pm

While it's tempting to say that it's because there were no cherry pickers hoisting aloft big lunged divas painted green at the end of act one, it's more likely the fact that the show was too intelligent and subtle to cross over to the mass market.

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:34pm

Somewhat like Sunday In The Park With George only more black people.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:36pm

I just spewed DR PEPPER all over my computer screen, Sum.
That was hysterical.

[joeyjoe]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:36pm

hey, Audra was in SITPWG...

[NuggetMonkeys]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:36pm

SUM, you are my hero.
That was genius.
and oh, so true.
-d.b.j-

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:38pm

Well joeyjoe that makes one.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:40pm

What popcultureboy said. When people are spending $100 a ticket, or only have one opportunity to see a show before they go back home, they want to see something popular and entertaining. Caroline is a show that challenges people, and subject matter doesn't attract most tourists. There are a lot of shows that have big attractions out right now, and Caroline got lost in the shuffle. A show about an angry black maid in the 1960s just doesn't attract people, unfortunately.

Updated On: 9/4/04 at 04:40 PM

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:41pm

Because God hates me.

[LuvUrBatBoy]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:53pm

I would use the words of the great director Roger Elizabeth DeBris to identify the cause of Caroline's demise:

"The theatre's so obsessed, with drama so DEPRESSED,
it's hard to sell a ticket on Broadway.
Shows should be more pretty,
Shows should be more witty,
Shows should be more...what's the word?"

~"Gay?"

"Exactly!"

[NuggetMonkeys]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:58pm

I strongly diagree, LuvURBatBoy.
Not about gayness, by all means. GAYGAYGAY YAAAYYYY!!!!
but we need depression.
i believe.
-d.b.j-

[uncageg]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 4:58pm

It didn't remind me of Sunday in the Park at all. And I liked both Wicked and Caroline. And Assasins and Bare!

I agree about the tourist spectacle thing. For the past several years, the big spectacle shows have gotten all of the attention and wonderful "less visually spectacular" shows kinda get left by the wayside. The spectacles are fine, I have seen most of them and enjoyed them, but it is ashame Caroline didn't last longer. A great piece of theatre.

Posted: 9/4/04 at 5:01pm

"the wicked fans
They hate Caroline Or Change"

The caroline or change fans
they hate wicked

[Plum]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 5:01pm

Oh, dear.

To put it simply, Caroline died of its reputation as a serious, sombre show. Its logo probably didn't help. I have to admit I was really surprised at the amount (and quality) of humor in the show when I first saw it, and the whimsical quality of the anthropomorphized objects. Caroline was difficult, yes, but I found Frozen, for example, to be far more so.

If it hadn't been labelled from the start as an ultra-intellectual Tony Kushner extravaganza, the show might have built an audience more quickly. I think it was starting to get a core of people who loved it towards the end of its run, but by then it was too late. It didn't get a chance to build momentum.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 5:50pm

My theory is that at least 75% of a shows success is based on the logo. It doesn't always have to be a fun eye candy color logo, it just has to be genius. Kinda like the logos for CATS or MISS SAIGON. If Caroline had used a big penny with Tonya's face on it and "Caroline, or Change" at the bottom... it might have ran longer...

[Plum]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 6:26pm

Caroline's logo was beautiful but sad, and that isn't really reflective of the show, which was filled with humor as well as pathos and had an uplifting epilogue.

[steveshack]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 6:48pm

I'm also of the opinion that Caroline was a work of art. The brilliant way the songs interwove; and the music stayed true to its gospel/r&b roots. Then when Caroline delivers "the line" to that little boy. It was like someone hit me in the chest. My partner Jimmy gasped out loud.

That was a moment of transcendent theatre.

"Lot's Wife" played like a freight train; much better in context than when sung on a talk show or awards show. Tonya Pinkins' voice was pretty strong the night I saw it (recently). But then the story just seemed to stop. The last song about the girls being the daughters of their mother -- I guess that's a true statement but it wasn't what the musical was about, IMO.

(These artists are way above me as artists so I do not mean my comments to mean I could have written a better show than they.) But I'm just saying, I felt unsatisfied.

Lastly, I went to see "Caroline" for the exact reason I think a lot of people didn't. I loved the logo. I thought it was provocative and evocative. I also wanted to see something hailed as a "work of art" that was "difficult." But then, I don't know that I would have brought my parents to see it.

I salute the producers for taking the risk. I bow at the feet of the creators for ripping my heart out at least once that night.

Steve
It's Reality Theatre. The gay marriage musical that exposes everything. THE BIG VOICE: God or Merman?

[Winkie Beer]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 6:53pm

It closed because the point of commercial theatre is to make money. Caroline wasn't making money. It closed. End of story.

It was safe at its non-profit home.... once it ventured out, it was no longer safe.

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 7:15pm

No need for me to rehash the brilliance of this show. Anyone who has seen a post with my name attached knows how I love it.

I'm going to have to agree that its the tourist issue. Although I am a NYC tourist, not everyone likes various forms of theatre. Most folks want to be entertained and the easiest way is the spectacle. Not saying spectacles are evil or anything because they're not. It just occurs to me that last season I heard so much about Hairspray but very little about Urinetown, which I've heard was a much smaller show (please correct me if I'm wrong). Same in this instance. There was tons of press concerning shows like Wicked, but not as much with Caroline. What press that was out there cast it as the "serious" while casting Wicked and Q as the fun shows. And as far as the logo, I was actually attracted to it. But then again I tend to be drawn to the unconventional.

I'm kind of rambling now though so I'll stop now and just say it will be missed.

[Testing1232]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 7:19pm

I dont want to rehash how brilliant I thought the show was either. If you search, you will see tons of posts from the "Caroline" shills (like myself !!)

Just want to say that I love the logo, and cant wait to see Veanne again in "Last Easter" !!!

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/4/04 at 7:26pm

"But then the story just seemed to stop. The last song about the girls being the daughters of their mother -- I guess that's a true statement but it wasn't what the musical was about, IMO."

Well, first, let's be clear that while Emmie was certainly a daughter, little Jackie and Joe were definitely sons.

Secondly, the entire show was about a woman who felt trapped because she had no options and the anger and desperation she felt because of it. She couldn't change her situation because she had four children to support, couldn't quit a dead end job she hated, couldn't go to college to improve herself like her friend Dottie because she couldn't read, couldn't find a man, couldn't join any protest marches, couldn't do anything except, in the end, learn to accept her lot in life, slam down the iron on every aspect of herself that hoped and dreamed for more and left her crazy and depressed, knowing that by negating herself and her desire to be more than she is, she's giving her kids a chance at a better life and a better future. That last scene is crucial because it completes the entire arc of the show -- Emmie finally stops resenting what her mother isn't, sees her for how extraordinary a person she IS and understands the sacrifices Caroline is making on the behalf of her and her three brothers.

By accepting her fate, by destroying the parts of herself that wanted so desperately to be able to change (which is what she does in "Lot's Wife") and by staying in that damn basement rather than running away, Caroline is making sure that her four kids will have a chance to achieve all of the things she couldn't. Emmie coming full circle and being able to proudly sing "I'm the daughter of a maid" and the three of them singing that they are "the children of Caroline Thibodeaux" powerfully hammers home everything that this show is about -- that the Martin Luther Kings and Fannie Lou Hamers weren't the only heroes, but that common everyday people who made enormous sacrifices on behalf of their loved ones were heroes as well, every bit as worthy of the praise and honor and the pride of those who lives they touched.

Updated On: 6/5/05 at 07:26 PM