FORBES on the bleakness of Broadway box office right now: Some Broadway shows are grossing under $100K per week- Page 2

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 6:05pm

BwayStarlette said: "Is Slave Play coming back because they got this SVG grant money? What other reason would it come back? I'm so confused by it all! (I do hope it will be running so I can finally see it when I'm in NY in February)."

There is ZERO sane financial reason why Slave Play is reopening, considering it didn't make money its first time around and won no Tony Awards (not that the Tonys would have made a major impact on its sales). I don't believe they got SVOG money? It had already closed when Broadway shut down.

In any event, it will not be running when you come to NY in February. It is a strictly limited two-month run through January 23. FUNNY GIRL is the August Wilson Theatre's next tenant.

[Wick3]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 6:38pm

Jordan Catalano said: "Something I find even stranger now than I did before reading this article, is the lack of papering for these under-performing shows. There’s one or two that have taken advantage of it, but for the majority of the others I haven’t seen them paper at all. One of the main pros to utilizing those services is that you not only fill your seats, but you (hopefully) generate buzz for your show. If productions are bleeding money so badly and are NOT taking advantage of filling their seats and the free first-person marketing, I think that’s just stupid on their part."

I agree. I thought Flying Over Sunset would have a lot of lottery winners for its first preview. 6 of my friends entered and no one won but all got offer of $59 tickets. They later saw that $39 deal via telechargeoffers (lottery also cost $40.)

kudos to SIX for getting its fanbase to generate buzz and momentum. 

[pmensky]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 7:11pm

I usually travel to NYC in January for work, so I know that flights and hotel rooms are always cheaper then, but those rates right now are half the cost of the usual pre-Covid rates. If there are shows you want to see that you’re sure will survive the holidays, mid-January would be a good time to go.

[whatever2]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 8:53pm

Born and bred New Yorker here, exiled to the provinces a couple years ago ...

In the Beforetimes, work and life got me back to the city at least once a month. That schedule is beginning to return to normal for me, but ... the hotels. I still manage to find decent airfares, but the hotel rates defy logic. And unless it's a Courtyard or a Hampton (i.e., something mid- to low-end), the property adds a "resort fee" or "amenity fee" to the quoted rate -- generally for services that have not been restored since the pandemic scuttled them. Like everyone else here, i'm an n=1, but i really think the absurd hotel rates are going to be the Achilles' heel in tourism's recovery.

[RunnyBabbit]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 8:55pm

Just my own personal anecdote (and probably one that doesn’t apply to most people): I would love to be seeing more shows, but I normally take the bus and do day trips.  Pre-covid, I was usually able get last minute bus tickets (or maybe 1-2 days before) for $5-$10.  If I planned a few weeks in advance, there was still the chance of $1 tickets.  Now the cheapest tickets I’ve seen are $15, and the last minute tickets are $20-$25 each way.

It’s a big difference for me to add $50 to a day trip vs $10.  If the bus tickets were still $10 round trip, I probably would have made 5 trips so far.  Instead I’ve made one trip that cost the same.

[pmensky]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 9:47pm

whatever2 said: "Born and bred New Yorker here, exiled to the provinces a couple years ago ...

In the Beforetimes, work and life got me back to the city at least once a month. That schedule is beginning to return to normal for me, but ... the hotels. I still manage to find decent airfares, but the hotel rates defy logic. And unless it's a Courtyard or a Hampton (i.e., something mid- to low-end), the property adds a "resort fee" or "amenity fee" to the quoted rate -- generally for services that have not been restored since the pandemic scuttled them. Like everyone else here, i'm an n=1, but i really think the absurd hotel rates are going to be the Achilles' heel in tourism's recovery."

I just checked the rates for hotels I’ve stayed at in the month of December, and the price points are right where they were in the past. For example, I’ve stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn on 47th and 8th regularly for 10 years. Depending on the season, it used to cost anywhere from $190 - $300/night. It is currently $289/night for the second week in December, which is normal for December, and $106/night for the second week in January, which is way lower than usual for January. This, and other hotels which have above 4 stars and are currently at a similar price point for those weeks, would probably be more than acceptable for most travelers looking for a good deal when planning a theatre trip. If they were going to raise rates, they would have done so for December. Things might change when people start visiting the city again more regularly, but right now there’s nothing absurd about these rates.

[Jakeevan942]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 9:49pm

barcelona20 said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "barcelona20 said: "I wonder if Six will have the highest ROI ever for a Broadway show"

That's pretty impossible to calculate. But SIX will likely recoup by the end of 2021, a major feat for the post-COVID world. The NYT reported in 2020 that it cost $5M to mount, and the FORBES piece indicates it's making ~$1.7M a week at the box office."

Wow, that's incredible if it cost $5m to mount. Amazing how a show with virtually no sets and a small cast and orchestra costs $5m these days."

If I remember right, an article from before the shut-down, maybe from the Times, said that the $5million to mount Six included $1.5million in advertising-type expense, so the show itself realistically had a capitalization of about $3.5 million. Maybe not highest ROI, but perhaps fasted recoupment announcement in recent history.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 9:54pm

I'm coming for a theater weekend December 10-13.   Rates right now are absurd for the Marriott properties where I often stay. A few examples:

Courtyard on 40th ... $584/night

SpringHill Suites on 37th ... $482/night

Fairfield Inn on 37th ... $454/night

I found better rates with Hyatt and Hilton, but considering the lack of tourism and the reduced service available properties are offering, I was still surprised to not see better pricing.  Perhaps they would rather have fewer guests at higher rates.

[whatever2]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 10:36pm

pmensky said: It is currently $289/night for the second week in December, which is normal for December, and $106/night for the second week in January, which is way lower than usual for January.

Those must be midweek rates -- i just went to hilton.com; the weekends that bookend the second week in December are $584 and $386, respectively at that property (three-night stays each). As I said, I come back to the city a lot, and my experience since my post-covid returns is more in line with Jason's.

 

[pmensky]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 10:43pm

whatever2 said: "pmensky said:It is currently $289/night for the second week in December, which is normal for December, and $106/night for the second week in January, which is way lower than usual for January.

Those must be midweek rates -- i just went to hilton.com; the weekends that bookend the second week in December are $584 and $386, respectively at that property (three-night stays each). As I said, I come back to the city a lot, and my experience since my post-covid returns is more in line with Jason's.

On Orbitz.com for 12/5-12/10 is $289/night and 1/9-1/14 is $106. I would typically fly in on Sunday, work Monday through Thursday, and return home on Friday. There’s nothing off about the rates Jason quoted for those properties for Decmber.

 

[whatever2]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 10:55pm

pmensky said: On Orbitz.com for 12/5-12/10 is $289/night and 1/9-1/14 is $106. I would typically fly in on Sunday, work Monday through Thursday, and return home on Friday. There’s nothing off about the rates Jason quoted for those properties for December.

So: midweek rates.

In large numbers, *tourists* (at least the domestic ones) typically visit on weekends. Those rates have been out of line since July, I promise.

"

 

[pmensky]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 11:04pm

whatever2 said: "pmensky said: On Orbitz.com for 12/5-12/10 is $289/night and 1/9-1/14 is $106. I would typically fly in on Sunday, work Monday through Thursday, and return home on Friday. There’s nothing off about the rates Jason quoted for those properties for December.

So: midweek rates.

In large numbers, *tourists* (at least the domestic ones) typically visit on weekends. Those rates have been out of line since July, I promise.

I think if I were a tourist I’d start taking my vacation days and travel midweek. 

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/17/21 at 11:50pm

Jakeevan942 said: "If I remember right, an article from before the shut-down, maybe from the Times, said that the $5million to mount Six included $1.5million in advertising-type expense, so the show itself realistically had a capitalization of about $3.5 million. Maybe not highest ROI, but perhaps fasted recoupment announcement in recent history."

Advertising very much counts towards recoupment. Every show has an ad budget built into the capitalization for pre-opening advertising, though how large or small that is depends on the producer/GM. Then there will also be money for advertising as part of the weekly operating cost.

We should also remember that the show might choose not to announce recoupment. Or wait until closer to Tony time.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 1:21am

whatever2, I stayed at The Row in Times Square and it was cheaper back in August - like $100/night and now it's like $300/night for Dec. And I paid a resort fee which was so insanely stupid because NOTHING was open, not the gym, the bar, the restaurants, nothing. So why the hell did I have to pay a resort fee? So stupid. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 2:24am

Interesting Harry Potter is not mentioned, I wonder is shaving it to be one part only will save it.

[ellbellthomps]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 8:24am

Word of mouth for shows other than the Lion King and Wicked have been awful. Every "casual theater go-er" I know is running back to, well the Lion King and Wicked. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 8:28am

Curiously, there's no mention of Phantom in the Forbes piece. Does anyone know how it's doing at this point?

[ellbellthomps]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 8:38am

Lot666 said: "Curiously, there's no mention of Phantomin the Forbes piece. Does anyone know how it's doing at this point?"

I'm no expert, but based on this and ticket availability it seems to be doing the same if not a little better than it did before shutdown at the height of the broadway surge in 2017(ish). Lotto also isn't a guarantee that you'll win like it used to be. My guess is that New Yorkers want to come back to a classic. 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 10:32am

NYT article today on hotel rates and any potential Black Friday discounts:

"Hotels, in particular, are back in the driver’s seat, often recording prepandemic-level bookings driven by leisure travel and the return of international visitors. In San Jose del Cabo, Mexico, Acre resort is officially post-recovery; 2021 bookings there have doubled 2019 figures. In addition, labor shortages have helped prop up room rates by preventing some hotels from operating at capacity. New York City is still short thousands of hotel rooms that haven’t reopened, causing rates to swell."

Updated On: 11/18/21 at 10:32 AM

[BwayStarlette]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 1:56pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "BwayStarlette said: "Is Slave Play coming back because they got this SVG grant money? What other reason would it come back? I'm so confused by it all! (I do hope it will be running so I can finally see it when I'm in NY in February)."

There is ZERO sane financial reason why Slave Play is reopening, considering it didn't make money its first time around and won no Tony Awards (not that the Tonys would have made a major impact on its sales). I don't believe they got SVOG money? It had already closed when Broadway shut down.

In any event, it will not be running when you come to NY in February. It is a strictly limited two-month run through January 23. FUNNY GIRL is the August Wilson Theatre's next tenant."

I'm not so sure that Slave Play didn't get the SVG money because I heard Waitress got millions - google it -  even though it was closed pre-pandemic. Which makes no sense. So maybe Slave Play applied and somehow got millions as well?  Too bad I am going to miss Slave Play in February, though. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 2:04pm

Perhaps they got the money after the Garbage West Side Story musical declined to reopen. Regardless of why, it won't make any money in these two months of performances, so I don't understand it either. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 3:12pm

Do we know the name of SLAVE PLAY's LLC entity? You can download a spreadsheet here with every show/theatre entity who got SVOG funding; the keywords Slave Play or Seaview Productions didn't come up with anything, but it's possible the entity has another name.  https://data.sba.gov/dataset/svog

[BwayStarlette]

Posted: 11/18/21 at 3:36pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Do we know the name of SLAVE PLAY's LLC entity? You can download a spreadsheet here with every show/theatre entity who got SVOG funding; the keywords Slave Play or Seaview Productions didn't come up with anything, but it's possible the entity has another name. https://data.sba.gov/dataset/svog"

That SBA list of awards is crazy! That's real?

[BroadwayAndSports]

Posted: 11/19/21 at 2:21am

This all seems like the same situation before the pandemic. Plays without big stars just don’t sell anymore, unless it’s Harry Potter. 
 

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "This piece from Lee Seymour might be the bleakest assessment I've read of the current Broadway landscape. As expected, it's really bad for all but the biggest hits. Here are some highlights from the piece:


THE GOOD:

– At Six, the average ticket price is around $200, with premium seats topping out at $499.

– General consensus among industry veterans is thatWicked, Hamilton, The Lion King, Hadestown,andCompanyare all in strong financial health.

–The upcoming Thanksgiving holiday should give most shows a boost, especially now that international travel restrictions have been eased; overseas tourists once accounted for one-fifth of Broadway buyers. And the Christmas-New-Years frame should be even better.



THE BAD:

– “Joyless,” is how one seasoned producer described the industry for those not working on megahits. “We’re all exhausted. And winter’s only going to be worse, unless you’re one of, like, seven shows. I’ve seen numbers for others, and some aren’t even grossing six figures. It’s awful.”

– Several producers who have been waiting to launch new plays have decided to hold off even longer, aiming for the fall of 2022 rather than the spring.“I’ve seen enough,” said one. “We can’t keep pretending that we’re back to normal. The audience just isn’t there yet for a lot of us. There is absolutely no reason not to postpone until the market signals it’s ready.”

–“This winter will be bad,” said one producer attached to several shows aiming for Broadway in 2022. “A lot of theaters will be sitting empty. So let them sit. We all need to reflect and be super intentional about our plans. We can’t rush into the spring the way a lot of us rushed into the fall.”

– Buyers are more discerning about how they emerge from their pandemic shells. If they can’t get a ticket toHamilton, they’re not going to pivot and seeDianainstead, simply because it’s also on Broadway."

 

[dickg2]

Posted: 11/19/21 at 2:45am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "This piece from Lee Seymour might be the bleakest assessment I've read of the current Broadway landscape. As expected, it's really bad for all but the biggest hits. Here are some highlights from the piece:



THE GOOD:

– At Six, the average ticket price is around $200, with premium seats topping out at $499.

– General consensus among industry veterans is thatWicked, Hamilton, The Lion King, Hadestown,andCompanyare all in strong financial health.

–The upcoming Thanksgiving holiday should give most shows a boost, especially now that international travel restrictions have been eased; overseas tourists once accounted for one-fifth of Broadway buyers. And the Christmas-New-Years frame should be even better.



THE BAD:

– “Joyless,” is how one seasoned producer described the industry for those not working on megahits. “We’re all exhausted. And winter’s only going to be worse, unless you’re one of, like, seven shows. I’ve seen numbers for others, and some aren’t even grossing six figures. It’s awful.”

– Several producers who have been waiting to launch new plays have decided to hold off even longer, aiming for the fall of 2022 rather than the spring.“I’ve seen enough,” said one. “We can’t keep pretending that we’re back to normal. The audience just isn’t there yet for a lot of us. There is absolutely no reason not to postpone until the market signals it’s ready.”

–“This winter will be bad,” said one producer attached to several shows aiming for Broadway in 2022. “A lot of theaters will be sitting empty. So let them sit. We all need to reflect and be super intentional about our plans. We can’t rush into the spring the way a lot of us rushed into the fall.”

– Buyers are more discerning about how they emerge from their pandemic shells. If they can’t get a ticket toHamilton, they’re not going to pivot and seeDianainstead, simply because it’s also on Broadway."

 

I think a lot of factors play here.  I've seen some NY hotel rates more than double pre-pandemic for the same time frames -- not going to pay $500-600 per night for a room that in 2019 cost $220.  And if I come to NY to see shows (which I do a few times a year) I am not likely to see one (unless exceptionally good) that I can see at home (sometimes with a better cast -- our former Chicago company of Hamilton was a good example).