"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX"- Page 6

[Up In One]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 2:04pm

I found it beautifully done, the amount of detail was amazing. Even knowing much of it going in I found myself intrigued. The Big Spender scene alone filled in so much of the picture I imagined from reading about Fosse. Maybe you need to be a theater or Fosse wonk but I even loved the Kit Kat girls make up scene. For all those years suffering through half baked theater representation on the tube and in film I found this is a breadth of fresh air. And, Williams portrayal of Verdon is already heart breaking. Can’t wait for next week.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 2:07pm

evic said: "I loved it. Well acted , directed and filmed. One little detail was not true. A man did not play the gorilla in the Cabaret number. It was done beautifully in the film by the late Louise Quick. I am surprised they overlooked that. Not that viewers would care. I thought Williams and Rockwell were perfect in their roles.
"

With all due respect, that sequence was when they were being presented with the German costume designer's version of the gorilla costume.  That is one of her assistants wearing the costume.  Due to Nicole Fosse being consultant on the series and who was present during filming, I'm sure she would have had them show Louise Quick getting into the costume had they shown the filming of the actual number, which they did not.  

 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 2:14pm

I have to admit, I found the back and forth a bit much - but, to be fair, I've been exhausted.  SO, I plan to watch again before next week's episode.  

 

 

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 2:29pm

Even with her Oscar nomination for it, I thought Williams was underappreciated for her transformation in MY WEEK WITH MARILYN. Hopefully she can pick up an Emmy for this.  

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 2:58pm

The first episode and a first look video are available to download on iTunes for free. The end credits feature a bit of Ethan Slater's "Willkommen" ala Joel Grey.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/fosse-verdon-season-1/id1454055966

Updated On: 4/10/19 at 02:58 PM

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 3:10pm

It's beautifully done, and Michelle Williams has every acting award in the bag just based on the premiere alone, but it's definitely a show that is made by theatre people, for theatre people, and I wonder if that'll turn off people after watching it. Hopefully not, but I wonder.

One thing I think Ryan Murphy does so well with American Crime Story and even Feud was putting the stories of these characters in some sort of societal context, and it allowed people to have some way of connecting with their world before delving into the story. Without him on this show and mostly theatre people at the helm, this is like, "Boom! You're in!"

Updated On: 4/10/19 at 03:10 PM

[bk]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 3:24pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "evic said: "I loved it. Well acted , directed and filmed. One little detail was not true. A man did not play the gorilla in the Cabaret number. It was done beautifully in the film by the late Louise Quick. I am surprised they overlooked that. Not that viewers would care. I thought Williams and Rockwell were perfect in their roles.
"

With all due respect, that sequence was when they were being presented withthe German costume designer's version of the gorilla costume. That is one of herassistants wearing the costume. Due to Nicole Fossebeing consultant on the seriesand who was present during filming, I'm sure she would have had them show Louise Quick getting into the costume had they shown the filming of the actual number,which they did not.

"

There is a ton of lazy writing here - it's not brain surgery to research stuff - it takes about thirty seconds.  And yet, as a friend wrote: "after an interesting recreation of Gwen giving valuable creative input to filming Big Spender, she's back in NYC telling Bob about lines outside the Ziegfeld... They did have lines outside the Ziegfeld three years later for Cabaret. I was in one. But she's talking about Sweet Charity, which played at the Rivoli. Bob jokes the lines may be there to see The Love Bug. Gwen says the Ziegfeld has only one screen. Okay this was decades before multiplex venues, and The Love Bug didn't open (at the Music Hall I think) until at least a month after Charity opened at the Rivoli." 

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 4:53pm

I had the same thought as some of the posters as far the program's lack of universal appeal .Pose for example focused on a select group of people but it was all about community and extended family where friendship often becomes as vital as family. This series is weak thematically.

I also think there is a new trend  to start stories in the middle and then jump around before reaching a conclusion. I am not sure that this particular structure of telling the story is serving this series very well. 

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 5:05pm

everythingtaboo said: "It's beautifully done, and Michelle Williamshas every acting award in the bag just based on the premiere alone, but it's definitely a show that is made by theatre people, for theatre people, andI wonder if that'll turn off people after watching it.Hopefully not, but I wonder.

One thing I think Ryan Murphy does so well with American Crime Story and even Feud was putting the stories of these characters in some sort of societal context, and it allowed people to have some way of connecting with theirworld before delving into the story. Without him on this show and mostly theatre people at the helm, this is like, "Boom! You're in!""

First of all Bob Fosse was also a famous and Oscar winning film director.  Cabaret, Lennie and All That Jazz are classics.

The first episode was in fact far more about film than it was about theatre.

If this doesn't get a huge audience, so be it.  If it's meant for "us," and we love it, that's enough as far as I'm concerned.

But I somehow doubt that this series' appeal is anywhere near as parochial as some are making it out to be.

It's a story about a power couple and how they, sometimes barely, keep it together.
It' s not just about the biz.

It also has two very popular and uber talented stars, one doing a very fine job and the other giving perhaps the performance of her life.
It's also, in part, much the same story as All That Jazz, which was not exactly a flop at the box office.

And it's a hell of a lot of fun.

Updated On: 4/10/19 at 05:05 PM

[jayinchelsea]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 7:14pm

After all the hype, very disappointed with the first hour.

Having been lucky enough to see Gwen Verdon a number of times in shows (including a last-minute summer tour of DAMN YANKEES when Fosse's heart attach delayed CHICAGO), I'm not seeing much of Gwen in Willams' performance. Gwen's voice was so distinctive, as was her dancing, and I'm just not seeing that yet. Williams is a fine actress, but red hair is not enough to suggest Gwen. Rockwell is okay, but the fact that we will apparently see very little dancing from the principals is disappointing. 

Hopefully this will improve with future episodes.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 8:37pm

*wow and to me I can't believe how much of Gwen I see in Michelle.  I would never have thought of Michelle Williams as being a convincing as either Marilyn Monroe or Gwen Verdon. 

But there she was/is.  
IMHO splendid as both.

And soon she will be Janis Joplin.

How can any single person play Marilyn Monroe, Gwen Verdon and Janis Joplin?

That's like Streep Squared.

Updated On: 4/11/19 at 08:37 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 9:03pm

The writing is laughable. When Fosse informs Verdon that Liza Minnelli will be playing Sally Bowles in Cabaret she asks, "Can she act"? Ridiculousness!! Liza Minnelli earned an Oscar nomination for her role in "The Sterile Cuckoo" which was released in 1969 - - - 3 years before Cabaret!!!

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 9:08pm

^ She also won a TONY in 1965 for best actress in a musical for FLORA THE RED MENACE.

Yeah, asking if she could act would have been weird in that context.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 9:25pm

Many performers are very oblivious to what other actors are doing, especially if they themselves are working, as Gwen was at that time. The Broadway version of SWEET CHARITY was in rehearsals in 1965 and she was involved with pre-production of the film adaptation of SWEET CHARITY around 1968. I know many actors who are unaware of countless projects happening and what other contemporaries are doing. You even see it with talk show hosts and how ignorant hosts are to projects actors have done, etc. Even pop culturist Andy Cohen has shown countless clueless moments one is baffled he was unaware of and he’s obsessed with all things entertainment related.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 9:32pm

*Audiences have a long history of tolerating dramatic breaks from the historical record, for instance that:

Mary Stuart and Elizabeth Tudor actually never met, Nicky Arnstein was Fanny Brice's second husband, Anna Leonowens was half Asian, Brutus was never a friend of Caesar's and Charlemagne didn't actually rise from the dead.

But we can't suspend disbelief that Gwen Verdon wouldn't have known that Liza Minnelli could act?

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 10:07pm

Overall, I like it but it is dry. Williams is sublime, but I wouldn't say she is nailing Gwen. I don't think it's possible for anyone to nail her. Her loose composite of Gwen is effective and moving, but Gwen was a one of a kind, as evidenced by the Charity film reviewer saying that Maclaine is no Verdon. Gwen had a voice like warm honey and an incandescence that will never be replicated.

Rockwell is too handsome for Fosse. Were no character actors available?

I look forward to more but hope it picks up.

[Robbie2]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 10:35pm

Someone in a Tree2 said: "^ She also won a TONY in 1965 for best actress in a musical for FLORA THE RED MENACE.

Yeah, asking if she could act would have been weird in thatcontext."

 

That's TRUE...LIZA was the "IT" girl then Talk of the Town for her amazing performance in Flora!

[bk]

Posted: 4/10/19 at 11:27pm

People really like this?  The writing is so bad, right out of Screenwriting 101, whatever else one may enjoy you can't get around that.  Every writing cliche is in abundance.  The worst of it is the party scenes or any scene where they drop a name like an atom bomb.  No one talks like that.  Glad people are loving it - I wanted to and maybe it will get better, but this first episode is just not good.

Updated On: 4/11/19 at 11:27 PM

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 4/11/19 at 1:04am

 "Pose for example focused on a select group of people but it was all about community and extended family where friendship often becomes as vital as family'

Pose also has joy and excellent writing. So, bit different from this dry mess.  

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 4/11/19 at 4:20am

Yes- Liza was great in Flora- I saw it as a kid- and remember it vividly- still listen to the cast recording- some great Kander and Ebb songs. To me, so far, it looks like Gwen was the creative form behind Cabaret- and gave Fosse his best ideas- though she never got the credit. Is that true- or are the producers and writers stretching a bit to fit the narrative into these Me Too times? Perhaps it is true- perhaps overstated- that I do not really know- but so far, it looks like Fosse is basically a user and lowlife- whose career and success, particularly with Cabaret- were due to Gwen's abilities and creativity. Is that true- or are is this an exaggeration of what actually happened- or is this overly influenced by the narrative that women's work is often ignored while men are given the credit for their work- which does happen, of course- but did it happen in this particular case- or is it overstated to be current?

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/11/19 at 6:11am

bk said:


"There is a ton of lazy writing here - it's not brain surgery to research stuff - it takes about thirty seconds. And yet, as a friend wrote:"after an interesting recreation of Gwen giving valuable creative input to filming Big Spender, she's back in NYC telling Bob about lines outside the Ziegfeld... They did have lines outside the Ziegfeld three years later for Cabaret. I was in one. But she's talking about Sweet Charity, which played at the Rivoli. Bob jokes the lines may be there to see The Love Bug. Gwen says the Ziegfeld has only one screen. Okay this was decades before multiplex venues, and TheLove Bug didn't open (at the Music Hall I think) until at least a month after Charity opened at the Rivoli.""

Yes! I agree with all of this. The review from the NY Times that was quoted in this episode specifically mentions that "Sweet Charity" opened at the Rivoli...not once, but twice! Will the general public watching this care? Not really, but I don't think it's too much to ask for some accuracy in the writing to lend some credibility to the piece.  It calls everything else into question. 

Writing aside, I am enjoying Michelle Williams' performance so far - - - so many layers there: a creative force and visionary, a sweetness with an underlying sadness. 

Rockwell is fine, but it's Williams I can't take my eyes off of. She's dominating every scene. 

 

Updated On: 4/11/19 at 06:11 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/11/19 at 8:52am

Who cares that Sweet Charity opened at the Rivoli?  

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/11/19 at 1:29pm

henrikegerman said: "Who cares that Sweet Charity opened at the Rivoli?"

Apparently no one did back in 1969. It flopped. Maybe they thought is was playing at the Ziegfeld?! LMAO!!!

Updated On: 4/11/19 at 01:29 PM

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 4/11/19 at 1:57pm

everythingtaboo said: "It's beautifully done, and Michelle Williamshas every acting award in the bag just based on the premiere alone,"

I wish that were true, but with Patricia Arquette dowdy-ing herself up (down?) in both the Escape from Dannemora limited series and the Hulu limited series where she's poisoning her daughter, I'm afraid she has a lock on the category (unless she splits her own vote?). Because nothing says "ACTING!" to awards voters like an actress de-glamming herself as much as possible.

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 4/11/19 at 6:09pm

Was very impressed with the first episode!  Love all of the attention to detail.  Was thrown for a moment by the theatre screen comment, I don't believe that there even any ideas of multiplexes in the late 60s.  I have never been a fan of Michelle Williams, ever since "Dawson's Creek", but I won't be tired of hearing her named called over and over again once award season starts.  The thing I am most happy about is seeing Sam Rockwell finally getting acting opportunites that he deserves!  I am have been a fan of his for years!