Groban & Ashford in SWEENEY TODD On Broadway - Reviews & News Thread- Page 27

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 2:24am

ACL2006 said: "EricMontreal22 said: "uncageg said: "
As for getting drunk at a theater bar. It happens, a lot. I have seen it happen."

Surely in most cases those people were already well on their way to getting drunk, pre-theatre (if not already drunk)"

How? The crowds, short timeframe, and the high prices would make it impossible. I'd assume they were drunk before entering the theater."

That was my point--the times I have gone to a show on Broadway and have drinks, having a drink before the show (even when you can take it in with you) and another at intermission is all I would have time for.  Not only would it be very expensive, but I'm surprised to hear people can go to a show in a sober state and be drunk by intermission...  (On the other hand, I went to a show in London where they served people bottles of wine mid show, so it's possible.)

 

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 2:26am

Matt Rogers said: "HogansHero said: "Matt Rogers said: "Only on Broadwayworld can you encounter a bunch of snide people who think it is an absolutely unreasonable expectation that you should actually be able to HEAR a show for which you paid well over over $200 per ticket."

"Snide" means "derogatory or mocking in an indirect way."

I don't think anyone posting on the subject of preview expectations has said anything remotely meeting that definition. There has been nothing negative said indirectly. People have explained, quite directly, that previews are a period when shows are still a work in progress. You and a few others seem to want them to be something else. Yes we are critical of your idea because it is, in our opinion, wrongheaded. It appears that you have been here over 18 years and this is a topic that comes up fairly often. I don't think you are in a position to plead ignorance because you could not be ignorant of the nature of previews. And I don't think you are. What I think is that you are actually the one being indirect because what you are actually saying here is that you think preview prices should be lower. You might find more people in agreement with you if you had just said that instead of encumbering it with an idea that is unsupportable.

Just a thought."

Oh, look. Another condescending post. Are you and Sutton Ross married? If not, please propose immediately. You are a match made in......somewhere.

You haven't seen the show so just keep blabbering about what you don't understand. One cannot properly HEAR this show as it is now in certain parts of the theatre. My ticket was over $200 and I should be able to clearly hear a show for that amount of money. In the freaking front row of the mezzanine. With an orchestra that is over 20 pieces."

Having a perfect sound design by the 4th preview is simply not realistic, for reasons that have been explained no you several times already. The real issue is that they charge those prices for previews, which didn't use to be the case.

[bear88]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 3:13am

I'm curious about the process here, having seen a Broadway show in previews only once before, and that was the famous Shuffle Along, which seems to have changed on a regular basis right up until opening. That;s probably not the best example.

In this instance, you've got a major revival of a very familiar musical, where they need to adjust to the theater and then a theater full of people. And there isn't a lot of time. There are 27 previews, and the show presumably will be "locked" before then because critics will be becoming shortly before Opening Night. (I'm not sure exactly when.) It's not like the show had out-of-town tryouts to work out other kinks.

This seems to be a very experienced group. Hamilton had one of the best sound designs I recall hearing, given the need for the audience to grasp the rapid-fire lyrics. That show even had great sound when I saw it on tour. 

But every situation is different. New theater, new variables, a million things to worry about. When does everyone have the time to fix whatever they think needs fixing? They're doing a show each evening, except for Mondays. On those Mondays? On various random afternoons because they don't have a two-show day until Saturday, March 11 and then a week later? On every afternoon?

I'm just curious how this usually works.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 3:19am

bear88 said: "
In this instance, you've got a major revival of a very familiar musical, where they need to adjust to the theater and then a theater full of people. And there isn't a lot of time. There are 27 previews, and the show presumably will be "locked" before then because critics will be becoming shortly before Opening Night. (I'm not sure exactly when.) It's not like the show had out-of-town tryouts to work out other kinks.

This seems to be a very experienced group.Hamiltonhad one of the best sound designs I recall hearing, given the need for the audience to grasp the rapid-fire lyrics. ."

Hamilton still had over 20 previews (I forget the exact number) when it transferred to Broadway, despite playing well already off-Broadway...

 

[FANtomFollies]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 5:31am

uncageg said: "I will go to the sound board after a preview performance, sometimes at intermission, and give my thoughts. Many times I have ended up in great conversation with the sound designers. They literally sit in different areas each night and listen."

Have you been to a Sweeney preview ye or have a ticket for a later date? I'm super curious if you end up talking to the sound designer for it and would love to hear what they say :) I feel like you would be doing all of us a service by letting then know about this issue (even though they may already know)

[Auggie27]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 8:00am

Many of us are referencing the original sound design, which in hindsight -- I heard it 7 times -- is golden. Yet we must consider the ways amplification has changed in the decades since. The complexity that has resulted, not just in musical theater but concerts, everywhere. If any show were to install an exact replica of the designs used in 1979, would our ears find them so pleasing? Haven't we adjusted to far more nuanced audio in the theater? A different balance of voice and instrumentation? To say nothing of the ways its modulated during specific moments (which I noticed during Funny Girl with its original star, to cite but one example) We'd probably hear something with far less range .

I'd love for an expert to weigh in. I did speak at length to a sound designer at a summer theater festival, a Yale grad in sound tech, who explained the subtle ways mics now work, and how intricate the mixing is during performance. The 1979 Sweeney plot would likely be all about relative volume alone -- to our 2023 ears. The fact that it takes multiple previews, even weeks, to get it just right says much about the sophistication of the process today.  We should trust time to be a friend to this production; they'll get it right.  

[uncageg]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 9:23am

FANtomFollies said: "uncageg said: "I will go to the sound board after a preview performance, sometimes at intermission, and give my thoughts. Many times I have ended up in great conversation with the sound designers. They literally sit in different areas each night and listen."

Have you been to a Sweeney preview ye or have a ticket for a later date? I'm super curious if you end up talking to the sound designer for it and would love to hear what they say :) I feel like you would be doing all of us a service by letting then know about this issue (even though they may already know)"

Yes, I saw it this week. I did not get a chance to stop by. I really want to but I was also needing to get to a train.

 

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 9:28am

JasonC3 said: "People aren't asking for perfection. They are asking to be able to hear the friggin' show, something one would think is among the minimum expectations that can be assumed when buying a ticket to ANY performance at any price point.

And while your posts are generally very helpful and well-informed, every once in awhile they cross over into a sanctimonious all-knowing tone that it is hard to not find somewhat offensive.



"

You are right that many here can seem high and mighty when responding to messages, but when the same answer has been given multiple times it is easy to understand how frustration can build. Those paying for a preview performance are essentially paying to see a show that is still in its rehearsal period. It has not yet opened, and it is not a finished product. The entire point of the preview period is to tweak the production based on how it plays to an audience. Adjusting the sound design is part of that process, if you don't want to be a part of that process, you wait to see the show until after it has opened. When you are seeing a preview, all bets are off. The sound might suck, the automation may not work, lighting cues may need to be adjusted, the set might break down, and the performance may be halted and cancelled. You are not seeing a show that is ready to open, especially in the first few days of previews.

What is unfortunate is that audiences are willing to pay top dollar for a show that is still in previews. We are the ones who control that market; if we are willing to pay top dollar for an unfinished product, producers are certainly going to be willing to charge those top dollar prices. If you don't want to see that unfinished product, then in the words of Mrs. Lovett, "Wait."

[StylishCynic]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 11:00am

jimmycurry01 said: "JasonC3 said: "People aren't asking for perfection. They are asking to be able to hear the friggin' show, something one would think is among the minimum expectations that can be assumed when buying a ticket to ANY performance at any price point.

And while your posts are generally very helpful and well-informed, every once in awhile they cross over into a sanctimonious all-knowing tone that it is hard to not find somewhat offensive.



"

You are right that many here can seem high and mighty when responding to messages, but when the same answer has been given multiple times it is easy to understand how frustration can build. Those paying for a preview performance are essentially paying to see a show that is still in its rehearsal period. It has not yet opened, and it is not a finished product. The entire point of the preview period is to tweak the production based on how it plays to an audience. Adjusting the sound design is part of that process, if you don't want to be a part of that process, you wait to see the show until after it has opened. When you are seeing a preview, all bets are off. The sound might suck, the automation may not work, lighting cues may need to be adjusted, the set might break down, and the performance may be halted and cancelled. You are not seeing a show that is ready to open, especially in the first few days of previews.

What is unfortunate is that audiences are willing to pay top dollar for a show that is still in previews. We are the ones who control that market; if we are willing to pay top dollar for an unfinished product, producers are certainly going to be willing to charge those top dollar prices. If you don't want to see that unfinished product, then in the words of Mrs. Lovett, "Wait.""

Well said!

The fixed, premium ticket prices for early preview performances are essentially for your bragging rights —that is, to say “I saw that already” AFTER the (expected) rave reviews are posted and the show is the talk of the town. (Not that it isn’t already among theater circles). Let’s not pretend that this isn’t the primary motivation for first- and early-preview ticket purchasers.  

The premium ticket prices after opening are for a top notch, finished, sound-balanced production. 

Audience members are not going to get the bragging rights and the polished production in early previews. Figure out which means more to you and act accordingly. 

Updated On: 3/3/23 at 11:00 AM

[Wick3]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 11:04am

I saw the preview last night in front orchestra and was able to hear the show. Yes in the beginning I missed a few lines due to the loud applause for Josh Groban when he entered. Same for Gaten after he first started singing. Overall I as able to hear it and understand the story. 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 11:08am

I'll repeat this one last time and then let it go;

1.  We are a community of theatregoers generally pretty well-informed. I know what to expect attending previews, particularly the earliest ones, so I tend to avoid them or at least don't pay a lot to do so.

2.  Many people buying tickets may not even realize they are attending a preview performance. on some levels, a "work in progress.".

3.  Many others may not realize what exactly they should not expect to receive as a result of seeing a preview.

Is that on them?  Perhaps to some degree. But there aren't a lot of other comparable situations in life where you pay top dollar for an unfinished (and in the extreme, inferior) product.

And if there were (or where there are), I would hazard a guess that some who are OK with it for a stage production might feel a bit less generous about it in these other settings.

OK. Back to that darn missing whistle. :)

 

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 11:15am

But I'll bet that the unseasoned theatregoers who are clueless about what to expect from an early preview are complaining a lot less than the people on this board, who do know.

Updated On: 3/3/23 at 11:15 AM

[inception]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 11:30am

All across the country, regional Opera companies put on shows with limited engagements, using unamplified singers, often in theaters of a much larger size, holding usually only one dress rehearsal, and they manage to get near perfect sound.

Just sayin'...

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 12:39pm

TaffyDavenport said: "But I'll bet that the unseasoned theatregoers who are clueless about what to expect from an early preview are complaining a lot less than the people on this board, who do know."

Correct. Get over it. The sound wasn't great when I saw it but I didn't put that in my review, because it's to be expected. Now put on the that familiar song by Adele Dazeem and TURN IT UP! 

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 12:45pm

inception said: "All across the country, regional Opera companies put on shows with limited engagements, using unamplified singers, often in theaters of a much larger size, holding usually only one dress rehearsal, and they manage to get near perfect sound.

Just sayin'..."

Designing for opera and designing for musical theatre are two very different things. An opera house is designed to be a perfect acoustical space, most Broadway theatres are not. The training and skill sets of the performers are different. The material being performed is different. The way the material is performed is different. An apple and an orange may both be types of fruit, and they may both grow on tress, but they are not the same.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 12:46pm

 What is unfortunate is that audiences are willing to pay top dollar for a show that is still in previews. We are the ones who control that market; if we are willing to pay top dollar for an unfinished product, producers are certainly going to be willing to charge those top dollar prices. If you don't want to see that unfinished product, then in the words of Mrs. Lovett, "Wait."

Brilliant. I would like it a thousand times if I could. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 1:19pm

Jason, I would also suggest (one more time and without condescension) that there are 2 issues here and when they are collapsed into one, the result confounds both topics. I don't necessarily think you disagree. The expectation is that it is caveat emptor/as is/etc. The reasonableness/outrageousness of pricing and the degree of explanation of what previews are that is needed is an open subject for discussion. But when the two are collapsed into one, the foundation of the result is a series of faulty premises. That's what I have said (a few times now) and I am of the opinion that is not out of line. 

I think the analogy to other things one might buy is not a good one and it's a slippery slope. Theatre is ephemeral and no two shows are identical, ever. (Just ask any stage manager or director LOL.) So where do we draw the line? Are you supposed to get a refund when an actor goes up on a line? When a light blows? When a stage hand has to walk on stage to move something that is supposed to be automated? You get the idea. When you buy a shirt and the stitching is off, the expectation is different. 

[sortofpedantic]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 1:26pm

Long time lurker, first time poster. Saw this on the 1st, I was hugely excited, as Sweeney has been a long time favorite, and I was bananas excited to hear the 26 piece orchestra. 

Kind of flummoxed by the number of posts about the sound here— as has been stated before, the sound mixing will inevitably improve through previews, and it *is* unreasonable to expect perfection at early performances. On the other hand, though, I was fortunate enough to catch Parade at NYCC, and that original run had an even shorter on-ramp. Even at the second show there, you could feel that orchestra in your BONES, no matter where in the house you sat. 

To my eye, the problems worth quibbling about in this production have less to do with sound and more to do with stakes. For all the talk about a “more human” Sweeney Todd, and trying to show him as a normal man who descends into madness, I have to say that I feel that’s a misguided choice. The show is subtitled “the demon barber of fleet street,” not “the human and relatable barber of fleet street.” As Sondheim has said, it’s a melodrama! I don’t see the intrigue in a naturalistic production. If I’m promised a demon barber, I want a DEMON barber, goddamn it (I kid)! The factory whistle is indeed sorely missed, and without it, the entire thing feels so… literal. Definitely a point of taste, and not something I can speak on objectively, but if a director is going to impose their will on a writer’s work, I’d rather it be a big swing (a la Doyle), than a middle of the road option. 

Gotta be honest, the choreography felt a little unintentionally funny to me. I wouldn’t be mad if every single ensemble member in Sweeney had two left feet— just don’t see the appeal of a movement driven production in my eyes. 

This is a bizarre observation, but I also felt the musical execution was a little safe. Lac does polish and precision, and where that works, it WORKS. But for Sweeney, I found myself missing the glorious, smeary imprecision from the OBC. To my ear, it felt kinda timid, and I’d have rather been afraid the orchestra was about to rattle apart at any minute than hear something that felt so slick. 

just my two cents, I sincerely hope everyone ignores me. Very fortunate to have been able to see this, and hopeful that they can tighten (or loosen?) some things up in previews!

Updated On: 3/3/23 at 01:26 PM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 3:10pm

Auggie27 said: "Hoping everyone listens to HogansHero above. This is a designated trial and error period, always reserved for corrections, big and small."

Yes, and we all know that, but is that made adequately clear at the point of purchase?

[cliffordbradshaw2]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 3:56pm

I may be way off on this, but I attended the first preview (front mezzanine) and had a different impression about one aspect of the sound problem.  I did not think that Annaleigh Ashford's mike needed turning up.  Instead, it seemed to me that Ashford's Mrs. Lovett was sometimes unintelligible because of Ashford's imperfect attempt at a cockney accent, and I'm not sure that adjusting her mike will solve this issue.  Still, Ashford is so brilliantly inventive here that it hardly matters.

Updated On: 3/3/23 at 03:56 PM

[Sneezy0984]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 1:38am

bear88 said: "I'm curious about the process here, having seen a Broadway show in previews only once before, and that was the famousShuffle Along, which seems to have changed on a regular basis right up until opening. That;s probably not the best example.

In this instance, you've got a major revival of a very familiar musical, where they need to adjust to the theater and then a theater full of people. And there isn't a lot of time. There are 27 previews, and the show presumably will be "locked" before then because critics will be becoming shortly before Opening Night. (I'm not sure exactly when.) It's not like the show had out-of-town tryouts to work out other kinks.

This seems to be a very experienced group.Hamiltonhad one of the best sound designs I recall hearing, given the need for the audience to grasp the rapid-fire lyrics. That show even had great sound when I saw it on tour.

But every situation is different. New theater, new variables, a million things to worry about. When does everyone have the time to fix whatever they think needs fixing? They're doing a show each evening, except for Mondays. On those Mondays? On various random afternoons because they don't have a two-show day until Saturday, March 11 and then a week later? On every afternoon?

I'm just curious how this usually works."

 

Most days they rehearse during the day before the show. I know they've been in the theater before every single preview making fixes. The opening number was VASTLY different at the Friday evening performance. They've also made changes to several other scenes. Particularly in regard to the movement. 

As far as the sound is concerned, they are purposely trying not to use too much amplification. They are going for a more acoustic sound. The first three previews did have some errors both with lighting cues and set pieces that didn't operate as they were intended to. 

They are still tweaking and fixing things and I expect things to change even further in the next week. Press does not start coming until the week after next so they have plenty of time before the show is frozen.

[bear88]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 4:13am

Interesting about major changes in the opener. You confirmed what I suspected, that it’s a mad dash of constant changes and adjustments before the reviewers show up during last week of previews. I am seeing the show Wednesday, March 15, early in the third week and the 16th of 27 previews. I assume the musical I see will be a lot different from the first preview but also not the same as the final product.

[Jimmyb1969]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 8:15am

The producers are very aware of the sound issues. And are worried…it’s not the slam dunk they though in the rehearsal hall. Everyone is talking about Annaleigh…definitely a combo of mic and accent and strength. And Jordan is a disaster, there’s problems with the blood effects - sometimes they work sometimes they don’t. And the whistle. People aren’t leaving as happy as they had hoped. There’s real issues. 

[binau]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 8:36am

On what basis have they concluded that ‘people aren’t leaving as happy as they hoped’?

[FANtomFollies]

Posted: 3/4/23 at 8:45am

Jimmyb1969 said: "The producers are very aware of the sound issues. And are worried…"

Is this your assumption or are you hearing this from a credible source?

Updated On: 3/4/23 at 08:45 AM