KINKY BOOTS to win the Tony over MATILDA?- Page 13

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 3:19pm

Thought it was a well-thought out analysis, although can't say that I agree with every one of his predictions. Interesting that so much controversy has been engendered by what turned out to be a rather lackluster season (with a very few notable exceptions).

Updated On: 6/6/13 at 03:19 PM

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 3:26pm

I suppose any of Healey's predictions is possible, though there were involuntary eye-rolls at "Tony voters loved the songs by the pop star Cyndi Lauper — she is a shoo-in for best score." I may have egg on my face come Sunday, but a shoo-in? If the Gold Derby is any indication, Matilda and Kinky are neck and neck here.

[Sauja]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 4:42pm

Healy's article is very well-thought out, and I can imagine him being right about quite a few of his predictions, though it does seem it will be a close race in a lot of categories this year.

It's always tougher in an awards race when you're particularly fond of one show over the others. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm an unrepentant Matilda adorer. But honestly, I'm less surprised that some people really dislike Matilda than I am that people love Kinky Boots. It feels like Memphis all over again to me in that I found both accomplished but dull, familiar, and uninspired. The one category where I think the work is genuinely award worthy is Featured Actress, but poor Annaleigh Ashford doesn't stand a chance next to Andrea Martin. And while I'm a huge Billy Porter fan (his Belize in Angels in America was one of the finest performances of the past few years), I wasn't especially impressed by his work in this.

But ALL of that aside, what astonishes me most is the love for Cyndi Lauper's banal score. Yes, I think Matilda deserves the win, but frankly I think Christmas Story, Hardbody, and even Bring it On all had stronger music.

I didn't hate Kinky Boots, just like I didn't hate Memphis. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that anyone is excited by either.

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 5:08pm

"If the Gold Derby is any indication, Matilda and Kinky are neck and neck here."

I'm not sure I completely understand Gold Derby's method of projecting, but it appears to heavily weight voters from the preceding year whose votes exceeded sheer chance in being correct. That may be a flawed method, because one year's vote might have been a no-brainer, while another might require having one's finger on the voters' pulse.

Maybe that's the reason for the difference?

[jv92]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 5:14pm

I'm not one to go gaga over pop songwriters coming to the musical theater to write shows, but Cyndi Lauper's score for KINKY BOOTS, false rhymes and all, is really quite terrific. I've had the album for a few days, and can't stop playing it.

[April Saul]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 8:47pm

Wow. I hadn't looked at this thread until tonight, and I'm amazed. Most posters on this board seemed to be blown away by Matilda and not all that impressed with Kinky. Until now, I guess!

While Kinky was warm-hearted, cliched fun (and I share the sentiments of one poster here who is a little tired of drag queens), Matilda was a cooler customer--but nonetheless, musical theater perfection. I actually liked Pippin better than either one, but there's no way that Kinky actually deserves to win Best Musical over Matilda...nor that Billy Porter should prevail over Bertie.

There's some serious backlash going on here, which is a shame.

[beagle]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 8:56pm

Not that this means anything because it's just one guy's opinion, but I was listening to Sirius/XM On Broadway today and Seth Rudetsky introduced a song from Kinky Boots saying he thinks it might win Best Musical. I only mention it here because it made me think of this thread.

Personally, I have seen Matilda (in London, not Broadway) and absolutely loved it. I found it to be one of the most exciting and original new musicals I had seen in years. I've only heard a few songs from Kinky Boots and my impression was "OK, but nothing special" even though I want to hear the whole score before I form a real opinion. I will probably have to wait to see it when it tours, but I do want to see it eventually. It looks entertaining, but not as incredible as I found Matilda to be.





Updated On: 6/6/13 at 08:56 PM

[Matteo]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 9:17pm

I feel in the vast minority here, but I completely disliked Matilda. I constantly searched for what the hype was all about. I truly, truly wanted to like this show, and at intermission prayed it would get better so I would like it, but I just never did. I liked nothing about Bertie's performance and found the entire production to be entirely underwhelming (set and lighting aside). I really do believe Matilda will end up winning the award, but I will be incredibly disappointed.

A direct quoted text from a friend of mine after the show: "I kept looking for any chance during the second act to throw myself off the balcony."

[BrerBear]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 9:21pm

That article isn't very flattering to Tony voters.
Although most of us know that awards contests are more about popularity than merit, it's kind of a gut punch to see how open they are about it. Voting for Tom Hanks because they have a "soft spot" for him and because of how well he campaigns. A voter who says he would vote for Cicely Tyson even if she slept through the play. Laura Osnes because she is "well-liked".
Maybe the award names should change from "Best ..." to "Most Popular ...".

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/6/13 at 9:37pm

I want Tom Hanks to win just to watch Hunter Foster lose his sh*t again.

Although most of us know that awards contests are more about popularity than merit

I would definitely say that about the Grammys, but regarding the Tonys, who says the two are mutually exclusive? In the end it's all subjective. Votes, popularity, merit...they are based on opinions and I would hope that most of us would understand that not everyone shares our own personal opinion. Sometimes my favorite show doesn't win, but I just shrug it off and say, "it's not how I would have voted" knowing full well that I'm not the one voting and that PERHAPS there could possibly be a majority of people who find the show that won to be the superior show.

If the vote were truly based on popularity, then Beauty and the Beast, Mamma Mia, Miss Saigon, Wicked, Grease and Rock of Ages would have won best musical, to name a few.

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 11:38am

From the Times article...

But many Tony voters, seeing the show, were puzzled by all the praise. While they liked the inventiveness of Dennis Kelly’s book and the staging and design work, they found the subject too dark — a young girl battling her cartoonishly cruel parents and headmistress — and a bit chilly. The upshot: Many Tony voters admire “Matilda,” but they aren’t itching to see it again.

I don’t understand this when it comes to voting for the best musical. “Too dark” just doesn’t seem like criteria that makes sense to base a vote off of. Granted, I know that has been a point of discussion on these boards – “I leave sad at ‘Matilda,’ but leave happy at ‘Kinky’!” But, when talking about artistic merit, it just doesn’t seem like it should play a part. I sure don’t leave all warm and fuzzy at “Sweeney,” but I definitely wouldn’t let that affect my giving it a Tony.

Also from the Times…

But Ms. Tyson is another sentimental favorite: One Tony voter said he would cast a ballot for Ms. Tyson even if she had slept through the play, while others noted that she routinely received standing ovations at Tony-related events.

Not that it’s a surprise, but I hate hearing this: a Tony voter admitting he is casting a vote for the actress, regardless of her (or any other nominees’) performance. What I find possibly worse than a voter basing their choice off of this is think it’s fine to admit to.

[John Adams]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 12:39pm

>> "Tony voters loved the songs by the pop star Cyndi Lauper — she is a shoo-in for best score." I may have egg on my face come Sunday, but a shoo-in?

I would hope that Lauper's score won't be a shoo-in. Two of its strongest numbers sound very derivative to my ears. The Sex Is In The Heel reminds me very much of Madonna/Pettibone's Vogue and Hold Me in Your Heart sounds amazingly similar to David Foster/Linda Thompson/Whitney Houston's I Have Nothing (both the music and the theme of the lyrics).
Whitney and Billy Duet Updated On: 6/7/13 at 12:39 PM

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 1:51pm

Just read a Chris Jones article in the Chicago Tribune where he places his Tony predictions and saw this quote regarding the “Kinky” score:

Lauper elevates its fabulousness, partly because of her skill at landing a melodic hook, but mostly because she has written songs that are so immediately recognizable as potent Lauper songs.

Reminded me of this thread and the argument of hearing an artist’s own voice in the score. I understand how it can be celebrated if a score is in an artist’s own style and they have found ways for this style to benefit the musical as a whole, but lauding the music for sounding like its composer (like Chris Jones did in this quote) seems inane to me. I don’t see how being able to immediately recognize that Lauper wrote the “Kinky” score is significant in determining if it deserves to win for best score. If she were writing a musical about her life, then, yes, that makes sense…but, in what way is it a good thing to be able to hear Lauper’s own music in her score for “Kinky” (not saying it is bad thing, necessarily, I just don’t understand how the simple fact of being able to tell Lauper wrote it benefits the score itself).

Perhaps he is touching on the fact that the crowd can connect with the score more quickly because it is reminiscent of songs they know, but in the context of saying why Lauper deserves the recognition for her score, this seemed to be feeble support to me.

Here is the article, if anyone is interested: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-06/entertainment/chi-tony-awards-2013-guide_1_tony-awards-tony-nominators-matilda

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 2:39pm

Like all other art media, signature style is vital to the success of an artist as an individual. It's no different for music composition, regardless whether it is classical, theatrical, or popular. Saying the Kinky Boots score may benefit from having a signature Lauper sound is pretty smart in conveying the accessibility of the music to the general public. Do I agree with his opinion?

To some extent in that the score sounds accessible, but not in the way the score conveys the setting, story or characters, which is more in the generic style of Lippa. I enjoy listening to the CD for a few fun melodies and songs, but not because they are reminiscent of seeing the show. In contrast, I enjoy listening to Billy Elliot not only because I enjoy the music, but for also recalling some of the staging, choreography and imagery of the scenes themselves. Grandma's Song doesn't sound like much on the CD, but on stage, it was mesmerizing. Solidarity is pretty cool on the CD, but having seen the show, it can still give me goosebumps. I just don't get that with anything from Kinky Boots.

[newintown]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 2:48pm

"But many Tony voters, seeing the show, were puzzled by all the praise. While they liked the inventiveness of Dennis Kelly’s book and the staging and design work, they found the subject too dark — a young girl battling her cartoonishly cruel parents and headmistress — and a bit chilly. The upshot: Many Tony voters admire “Matilda,” but they aren’t itching to see it again."

I have to say it - that's an incredibly lowbrow point of view; the exact same thing the idiots used to say about Sondheim's work back in the 70s: "Too dark, too chilly, too smart." Confessing to finding those qualities detrimental to a show (or any work of art or entertainment) is equivalent to wearing a sign saying, "I find thinking difficult."

[Up In One]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 3:29pm

"I have to say it - that's an incredibly lowbrow point of view; the exact same thing the idiots used to say about Sondheim's work back in the 70s: "Too dark, too chilly, too smart." Confessing to finding those qualities detrimental to a show (or any work of art or entertainment) is equivalent to wearing a sign saying, "I find thinking difficult."

The New York Drama Critics Circle is the highest brow when it comes to these things and it recognized Matilda. The Tonys many times takes a less academic and more broad look at what is the best musical of the season. I keep saying this but Follies and Sunday did not win Tonys and their place on the "Best of all time" lists are higher than the shows they lost to (2 Gents and La Cage).

I will agree to the chilly sentiment around Matilda, aside from the brilliant staging, design and performance the show read like a stylized pageant. Concepts were broad and the emotional lines were so blatant I sat there waiting for the next staging surprise. Sweeney Todd, Spring Awakening, Next To Normal - that's dark that keeps on giving. Matilda is a triffle with a hard core. I didn't get the point other than to celebrate a popular book. Or better yet I did get the point, but was that all there was?

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 4:37pm

Like all other art media, signature style is vital to the success of an artist as an individual.

Agreed, but, in the case of a musical, signature style of a specific artist is not always important to the overall artistic success of the musical. As theatre is a collaborative art, each facet of it must aid in the telling of the story and add to the musical as a whole. Unless the composer’s signature style has something to do with the storyline, being able to immediately identify the artist through the style of song, for me, has nothing to do with whether it succeeds as a musical score or not. The fact that we are able to tell the songs are written by Lauper, right off the bat, is not a detriment to the score, but also doesn’t seem to warrant reason for her to win best score.

If Jones was saying that Lauper’s chances to win are benefitting from the “Kinky” score sounding so much like her individual music because it invokes good memories for people, that is one thing. But, at least from my reading of the article, Jones is saying that simply the fact that the songs sound like her own is a reason she deserves the recognition and that, somehow, elevates the show. Maybe if he had elaborated as to why he feels like her style of music is perfect for this show I would understand his statement, but, at least from what I gather from this article, it sounds like he believes she deserves the recognition because the score sounds like her signature style.

What’s funny is, if Lauper had delivered a score that was differed from her own style, I am sure she would get praised for producing something so outside her usual form. Not saying this praise wouldn’t be warranted, but I guess my passion with this issue is stemming from feeling like no matter what Lauper produced, unless it was flat-out atrocious, she would receive praise. Because I, personally, am having a very hard time understanding why there is so much adoration for this score, comments like Jones’ seem to support my feeling that Lauper’s score is getting lauded as genius more because she was able to write a musical score that wasn’t terrible (and she is well-liked), than anything else.

Obviously, we all have our opinions and I am definitely not saying mine is “more correct” than anyone else’s opinion. I just have yet to hear much critical praise for the “Kinky” score beyond “It’s fun!” For me, that is not enough to award it the Tony, but, I recognize, for others it might be. To each his own!

"Too dark, too chilly, too smart." Confessing to finding those qualities detrimental to a show (or any work of art or entertainment) is equivalent to wearing a sign saying, "I find thinking difficult."

Agreed.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 4:57pm

I just have yet to hear much critical praise for the “Kinky” score beyond “It’s fun!”

That's because you didn't pay attention to my posts on the subject.

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 5:06pm

PalJoey, that is why I said “I have yet to hear much critical praise…” as opposed to saying “any critical praise”. I definitely took your posts into account and appreciate that you are one of the only ones who has been able to express the reasons behind why you are for “Kinky” winning best score.

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 6:35pm

"I just have yet to hear much critical praise for the “Kinky” score beyond 'It’s fun!' "

Truly? Check here:


Critical Praise for Lauper's Score of Kinky Boots

[jnb9872]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 6:57pm

This concludes our paid programming for KINKY BOOTS. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled forum.

Updated On: 6/7/13 at 06:57 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 7:37pm

""Too dark, too chilly, too smart." Confessing to finding those qualities detrimental to a show (or any work of art or entertainment) is equivalent to wearing a sign saying, "I find thinking difficult."

Agreed."

Don't agree.

Finding something "chilly" is wholly legitimate criticism, and has nothing to with one's ability to think. I found it repellent, which is also wholly legitimate criticism.

As for "too smart," I think "too smart-assed" would be more appropriate for the cherished "pets" of the elitist snob brigade.

Oh, and Up in One, who says that Follies and Sunday in the Park are now superior to the shows that won the Tony's in their respective years?

The elitist snob brigade.

But then, they were saying it back then as well.

[Up In One]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 8:00pm

"Oh, and Up in One, who says that Follies and Sunday in the Park are now superior to the shows that won the Tony's in their respective years? "

Listen I am a fan of all four shows but even I back then in high school found Follies thought provoking, haunting, spirit changing and 2 Gents gorgeous fun. I couldn't move from my seat after Sunday and loved the fact my grandmother enjoyed La Cage so much. This year I find Kinky Boots spirit rousing and Matilda a nasty bit of well staged and performed junk. My point was not to get crazy, the Tony will not define these shows. Let time decide.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 8:04pm

Too chilly (to me) means that the show has failed to truly connect and make one feel anything. That is reason to keep votes away. It has nothing to do (in agreeing with AE) with wit or intelligence. I love shows that make me think....as long as I also feel.

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 8:08pm

"Let time decide."

Let people decide. Freely, without intimidation or abuse.