KINKY BOOTS to win the Tony over MATILDA?- Page 14

[RippedMan]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 8:35pm

I like Kinky Boots when I hear it. I liked most (the drag queen songs) during the show. But I find it hard to sit down and listen to it. It just doesn't do anything for me. It's SO simple. There's nothing interesting or challenging about the music. I mean a whole song with the lyrics "yeah?" "Soul of a man?" Boring. The opening number? Awful.

Listen to "When I Grow Up" from Matilda. Such a great number. That should be the song they showcase at the Tonys.

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 9:22pm

Theatre'sBestFriend, when I mentioned critical praise, I didn't mean critical in the sense that it comes from critics, but critical in terms of an in-depth analysis of the score. I see, in the list of reviews on that link, proclamations that the score is "infectious" or stating that Cyndi Lauper has scored big. Not saying these aren't true, but I was referring to taking a look at the lyrics, how much the songs tell us about a characters, etc. that will help support and explain why these people hold these opinions.

And, AfterEight, forgive me, I misunderstood your sentiment. I do agree that "too chilly" is absolutely a legitimate criticism and, like dramamama, agree that that it has nothing to do with intelligence. When I said I agreed, I was responding to "too dark," which is what I originally commented on. "Too dark," to me, doesn't seem like a legitimate reason to withhold a vote. I have seen multiple shows that left me scared or restless inside due to their dark natures, but these shows have also been some of the best shows I have seen.

[Joviedamian]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 11:01pm

I have a feeling KINKY BOOTS will win...it's a great score (not perfect), but great. MATILDA is also wonderful, but I think that MATILDA is more well known and can sell on the title on it's own, where KINKY BOOTS may need that TONY to tour!!!! I see KINKY having more heart in it, then MATILDA!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 11:34pm

where KINKY BOOTS may need that TONY to tour

Like Priscilla, it will tour regardless. And with the way it's been marketing and selling, a tour is inevitable and probably already in the works. Matilda, Kinky Boots and Motown don't need to win Best Musical to tour.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 11:52pm

I actually think Matilda might not tour as well. Look at Billy Elliot. It's having a hard time filling the theaters.

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 6/7/13 at 11:54pm

Tim Minchin and a few other places online said that they are interested in getting MATILDA to tour, but no confirmation.

[binau]

Posted: 6/8/13 at 3:50am

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 6/8/13 at 10:18pm

So, I saw Kinky Boots via YouTube. Again, with location, disability, and money, I can't see it on stage.

Ok, anyway: I really really liked it. It was very fun and enjoyable. I’m really glad I saw this right before the Tonys. Anyway, what I think now for Tonys:

Best Musical: While I’m still rooting for Matilda, I wouldn’t probrably be that upset if Kinky Boots won. These 2 musicals are very strong in its own ways.

KB: The story is much more flowing and focused and it has a great message that is a little stronger than Matilda’s. The characters are more likeable here than Matilda. The ending is great and it’s defientely like Hairspray. It’s very energetic overall and it’s touching too.

Matilda: The beautiful direction and a creative story, which I think why this will win. I think the people here are more talented, esepecially the little kids. You defientely root the characters more here than KB and I found myself, getting into parts more here. The ending made me feel very warm.

Best Book: I honestly don’t care. Both are great.

Best Score: I just want Matilda at least win this one! The score and the music are great in KB, but “Everyone Say Yeah” doesn’t hold a candle at all to “When I Grow Up”. The music to Matilda is beautiful and the lyrics are witty and busy and touching. But, Hold Me in Your Heart moved me so much though.

Best Actor: I honestly don’t care that much. But, honestly, my vote is on Billy. Bertie is fantastic and acts more, however Billy is really touching. He almost made me cry during and after HMIYH. But, I woulsd not be surprised if Bertie wins this.

BONUS: Best Featured Actress: Yes, yes! Andrea will win. But, if Pippin wasn’t in this season, it would be between Analeigh and Lauren. And honestly, my vote would be on Lauren. Annaleigh was hiliarious in History of Wrong Guys, but Lauren touched me. She broke my heart every time she was on stage as Miss Honey and she almost me cry during My House when you see her cry. Plus, she plays a much bigger role than Annaleigh and carried more weight.

So, good luck to everyone. :)

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 1:21am

I like this thread.

[Kelly2]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 1:23am

"So, I saw Kinky Boots via YouTube. Again, with location, disability, and money, I can't see it on stage."

Nice to hear your thoughts but watching a bootleg is in no way similar to the experience of seeing a show in the theatre so your opinions hold little weight.

[John Adams]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 7:13am

>> Nice to hear your thoughts but watching a bootleg is in no way similar to the experience of seeing a show in the theatre so your opinions hold little weight.

I don't buy into the argument that unless a person sees a show in the theater, their opinions "hold little weight".

Watching a video of a show (even a bad one):

1. Gives a very strong sense of the show's book and the score. Even if the video is so poor that you see NOTHING, there is still an audio record of both, as well as how they were delivered by the actors. To say an opinion "holds little weight" under those circumstances would be the same as saying that reading scripts, or listening to OC recordings are also equally useless in forming an opinion.

If that were true, it would be useless to order perusal copies of scripts, or listen to OC recordings when planning on producing a show, because any opinion formed would hold little weight.

2. Gives at least a sense of the lighting design, although I'd agree that being in the theater is the better experience.

3. Demonstrates the costumes and set design. Depending on how close to the stage someone is seated, you could also make an argument (regarding costumes and sets) that unless a person actually went backstage to see the details of construction, opinions of those seated in the last row of the balcony (or even closer) hold little weight.

There is a lot of relevant information that can come from watching even a bad video of a show. Granted, depending on the quality of the video, a lot can be missed, also. Choreography is one aspect that comes to mind.

It is never true that valid opinions cannot be formed unless a person has physically been in the theater to see a show, or that their opinions necessarily hold "little weight". That's just a bandwagon rationale that folks tend to gravitate to, because it's generally accepted here.
Updated On: 6/9/13 at 07:13 AM

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 7:57am

Exactly, John! Thank you! I technically saw the show, didn't I?

[binau]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 8:10am

I think technically you saw a bootleg video recording of the show, but yes it would be completely illogical to claim that "watching a bootleg is in no way similar to the experience of seeing a show in the theatre" because as it is a recording of the show, then many aspects must be similar. Not all sure, but the correlation can't be 0.

[John Adams]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 8:20am

>> I technically saw the show, didn't I?

Yup. But you do know that "bootleg"="bad", right? I'm getting uncomfortable with the possibility of discussing this without pointing that fact out.

Updated On: 6/9/13 at 08:20 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 9:25am

While I agree that its not the same, you can still base an opinion on what you experienced.

My thoughts on the difference is: it can only be better in the theater than what someone's crappy illegal video could possibly provide.

[eperkins]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 12:31pm

Hmmm. Did DisneyBroadwayFan see Kinky Boots the MOVIE on YouTube, or a bootleg video of Kinky Boots the Broadway musical?

[Kelly2]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 12:33pm

"It is never true that valid opinions cannot be formed unless a person has physically been in the theater to see a show, or that their opinions necessarily hold "little weight". "

To me, you cannot have an opinion that I would take seriously on a show unless you actually SAW the show. That's not a weird, controversial thing to say. Judge the bootleg you saw if you saw one, that's fine. But that isn't a review of the production, it's a review of a bootleg. You can't really accurately judge based on a grainy YouTube video. I've seen plenty of crappy bootlegs and then seen the show and been surprised by how much more I loved it and how much better it was in person. Similarly, bad filming and distance and camouflage a lot of flaws that up close look more significant. It's just not the same. Personally, I'd never "review" a show I've only seen from someone's shaky videocamera.

Sorry. I think bootlegs are great, I think they document theatre and performance in an important way, but to say they're comparable to seeing a show live is silly.

Updated On: 6/9/13 at 12:33 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 12:42pm

EVERYBODY SAY YEAH!

[broadway guy]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 12:43pm

Where is the bootleg of the show?

[Kad]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 12:49pm

I have never, ever watched a taped performance- professional or otherwise- that has been able to successfully duplicate the experience of watching a production live. Even the best results (for example, the Candide concert at Lincoln Center) are still somewhat stilted and awkward due to the constraints of filming in a theatre and the performances not being played for camera. This is to say nothing about something shot surreptitiously from the mid-mezzanine.

[jaxel614]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 12:56pm

I agree. Even when watching the recordings at the NYPL for the Performing Arts, while the Theater on Film and Tape Archive is an incredible resource, I find myself distanced from the show. Whether it be the availability of checking FB or eyeing your neighbor's screen to see what they are watching, it is an entirely different experience than sitting in a darkened theater.

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 2:11pm

Dear Kelly2:

You actually said: "Sorry. I think bootlegs are great, I think they document theatre and performance in an important way, but to say they're comparable to seeing a show live is silly."

Even though I have stated that you, for whatever reason, have an obsession with trashing Cinderella, Laura Osnes performance, etc. at every opportunity, you have authored other posts on other subjects that made me think on occasion you have something of reason to say. But the quoted statement above makes me wonder if you have any idea what you're talking about, period.

You think bootlegs are great??? Really?

Let's discuss. First, they are unquestionably illegal. They violate copywrite laws and are considered "content theft". Let's assume hypothetically that someone actually makes a decent quality bootleg of a show, and then posts it on the internet for anyone to view, free of charge. Are there not people who otherwise might well have bought a ticket to see the show but who now will be content in having watched it for free? And is that fair to the producers, to the show's investors, to the cast, to the crew, to the ushers, to the folks in the box office, all of whom rely to some degree on a show's financial success?

Second, you claim, based on what I don't know, that bootlegs are an "important" way of documenting theater and performance. Important to whom? To those who are violating copyright laws? There are ways that shows are recorded professionally in order to document performances, those decisions are made by the producers and the creatives, and to say that a bootleg video is great because it fulfills that purpose is as stupid as anything our friend JarqueLemos (by whom all things stupid on this board can now be compared) has ever said.

You may have opinions about theater, which you are entitled to express, but you actually KNOW very little about what actually goes into producing a work of art.

The bottom line: According to you, the commission of a crime is great. Hopefully, most people would disagree.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 2:23pm

Well no duh it's illegal, but a bootleg plus time turns it into an archive of that production. You can stomp your feet all you want, but I guarantee you nobody will say a damn word for you watching the bootleg of Patti in Evita, or Ethel Merman's soundbord recording of her final performance of Gypsy, or the video of the OBC of Sweeney Todd.

Producers can frown all they want at them currently, but they come around when their show is long since closed and you had a legendary performance captured by someone with a camera.

Bootlegs have been used in documentaries. Patti LuPone, decrier of Bootlegs, even had bootlegs of her used in a mini documentary on her career.

Nobody wants Bootlegs as a cheaper alternative. Many of the watchers of these videos have seen the show MANY times. They know it's not a substitute when it's made, but when the show has long since closed that is what it becomes. Producers have bootlegs. Actors have bootlegs. Bootlegs are universal. Everybody wants them. They want the memories They want the record of what the show was. Updated On: 6/9/13 at 02:23 PM

[Kelly2]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 4:31pm

"Even though I have stated that you, for whatever reason, have an obsession with trashing Cinderella, Laura Osnes performance, etc. at every opportunity, you have authored other posts on other subjects that made me think on occasion you have something of reason to say. But the quoted statement above makes me wonder if you have any idea what you're talking about, period."

Oh jesus, here we go. I have no "obsession" with Cinderella and post my opinion on everything I see pretty equally. I've posted just as much about my thoughts on Kinky Boots, Matilda, Pippin, and all the other productions I've been able to see this season, so calm it.

I think bootlegs can be a useful tool. I've spent most of my "career" working for people whose work has been bootlegged and distributed via the internet a thousand different ways. Guess what? Even the creators of shows have expressed approval of the usefulness of bootlegs. I've had writers, directors, and choreographers of Broadway shows ask me to find bootlegs of their shows for them purely so they can see how things happen on nights they aren't there, how the show is holding up, how certain understudies are when they go on, etc. Maybe it's illegal but it's hard to say there's no grey area here when the people creating the content are the ones who are in a lot of cases completely fine with bootlegging. There's no way you can deny that they are a prevalent part of the Broadway culture and community and that there are practical applications for them.

I'm sorry, but the idea that someone wouldn't buy a ticket to a show based on a bootleg is a little farfetched to me. If someone is satisfied watching a shaky, grainy version of a show and that alone convinces them not to have the experience in a theatre, I can't imagine they wanted to see it particularly badly in the first place. I think people should be respectful if they choose to illegally document shows and I completely disagree with how publicly shows are shared. I don't personally find it right to post entire shows on YouTube while they're still running. That, to me, is in bad taste. Similar to Lincoln Center's rule about only being able to view shows after they've closed. However, if I see a replacement in a show I really love and love their performance of the music and I want to have it to listen to for myself on my iPod without posting it all over the internet, sorry, I don't really see who I'm hurting.

I agree that it's a touchy subject and different people feel VERY differently about it, as you've proven, but to say your take on this issue is the only valid take and anyone else is stupid is just laughable.

"You may have opinions about theater, which you are entitled to express, but you actually KNOW very little about what actually goes into producing a work of art.

The bottom line: According to you, the commission of a crime is great. Hopefully, most people would disagree."

Yawn. Actually I've worked on several Broadway productions and even more off-Broadway, in addition to having professional recordings and performances of my own work done. I'm just coming from a place of realism and the reality of everyone around me in the community and not a moral high ground that has little use in the day-to-day. Take a Xanax maybe, you seem a bit too worked up about this.

Updated On: 6/9/13 at 04:31 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/9/13 at 4:41pm

They violate copywrite laws

"Copyright laws" not "copywrite" laws.