LEMPICKA Reviews- Page 18

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:30am

Just because someone is embittered and angry, does not negate the fact that there is an element of truth in their words.  

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:33am

Gould also did a video bringing his kid to the show (because that’s the marketing shift that would have changed everything…..?) and it was super leading and made me feel gross. He starts with asking the kid if he likes “original work” and the kid says no. The ‘magical arc’ of this (not at all staged) video is that by the end of it, he’s telling Eden it was “extraordinary” and saying he likes original work.

The point he conveniently ignores throughout this entire experience is: ORIGINAL WORK CAN BE BAD AND/OR MISGUIDED. Which is exactly what this show was, if they expected to be a commercial success of Broadway. It didn’t need to come when it did, the landscape & general audience at the time weren’t asking for this piece, and ultimately, they failed in their mission - but instead of learning from this, they take it on themselves to be the new Heroes Of Art…everything they did was perfect, it was us and the critics who were wrong. How embarrassing.

There have been a lot of shows with teams of passionate, bleeding-heart types who think their art is more meaningful than the rest of the world’s, but they at least have a shred of professional integrity when reflecting on it or in their curtain speeches. The folks behind Lempicka truly cannot get over themselves, nor can they fairly see what they’re making over their own feelings and perspective of it.

The show never truly felt grounded or focused on Lempicka, but in the creative team’s own desires to have a Hit Original Queer Musical with Lempicka as an afterthought.  

Updated On: 5/20/24 at 10:33 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:37am

“This board does wield power. I’m surprised you don’t understand that, or maybe you are just refuting any responsibility.”


Wait wait wait wait wait. I’M partly responsible for this show losing 20 million dollars and closing? ME? There’s shows I hated MUCH MUCH more than this one and they’ve won multiple Tony awards and gone on to have long lives but my opinion only makes a difference when it’s not a glowing one? The delusion is incredible. 

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:41am

wpetinaudjr2 said: "Jordan Catalano said: "I’m sure Matt Gould will take the stage blaming everyone and everything except the mediocre show itself for the lack of tickets sold."

Or Matt and others willstart to work on their next ventures and continue to build beauty and live out their dreams and goals while others sit behind a keyboard,achieving nothing,doing nothing and awaiting to celebrate what they deem failures or misses with vitriol from actually remarkable (and in this case extremely talented and kind hearted) people who are actually offering something.

If some of you can do better there is a world of opportunity out there for you. Make it happen! Some of us await whatever you can meaningfully contribute and will celebrate your success (or at the very least your attempt)."

I’m sorry. Are you saying that disliking Lempicka and talking about it implies that someone is contributing nothing of meaning to the world? That’s remarkably insulting, and a broad generalization that you have no grounds to make. It says a lot about you, person behind a keyboard spewing personal insults at strangers online.

It’s honestly this kind of rhetoric that kept me from giving the show a second chance a couple weeks ago; the idea that those who didn’t like it for any reason were viewed as haters and losers for simply not connecting with it. I thought “Maybe I was a bit too harsh on this show in previews” and considered going back to reassess. Then I read some idiotic comments like this online and thought “Actually, I should trust my gut on this one.” And then I saw those pathetic closing night speeches and felt vindicated.

[yahyahyah]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:47am

Jordan Catalano said: "“This board does wield power. I’m surprised you don’t understand that, or maybe you are just refuting any responsibility.”


Wait wait wait wait wait. I’M partly responsible for this show losing 20 million dollars and closing? ME? There’s shows I hated MUCH MUCH more than this one and they’ve won multiple Tony awards and gone on to have long lives but my opinion only makes a difference when it’s not a glowing one? The delusion is incredible."


The delusion IS incredible. Have you ever stopped to consider.. maybe you are part of that problem? 😂 

(Going to venture to guess, “no /never will.”)

Also, it’s amazing, from my long-winded reply, this was your simplistic takeaway….

Also..

”There’s shows I hated MUCH MUCH more than this one”

Just so gross. 🤢 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:48am

What is going on here? lololol

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:49am

Jordan Catalano said: "What is going on here? lololol"

Who knew the entire Lempicka creative team had burner accounts??

[Kad]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:52am

If BWW had so much power in shaping public opinion, Back to the Future would've been closed last August and Days of Wine and Roses would be playing to sold-out houses. While many industry people lurk- and, gasp, participate- here, this is an extremely niche discussion board, and a rare avenue in 2024 for people to freely discuss these shows without an increasing chorus of people who seem to think being critical of a production is the worst thing one can do. Meanwhile, actual critics don't care what people here think and aren't moved by word-of-mouth or, even as Jesse Green noted in his Notebook review, what audiences actually in the room with them seem to think

Lempicka arrived with good will behind it- an original musical by and starring people who were well-liked in the community. It also happened to be totally DOA, with dire sales from the get-go and word of mouth that was immediately mixed to negative. It had a baffling marketing campaign that couldn't decide if it was serious or campy and in doing so left the general public with no idea what the show was about.  And no, this is not because it's a show about a messy queer woman- shows like Fun Home, The Prom, and Rent all managed to be praised despite featuring such characters, to say nothing of all the other complicated women Broadway has historically embraced. 

At the end of the day, these people put up a show and it didn't click with much of the public or critics. It's not because of mean people on BWW shaping popular opinion or because critics live to tear down purehearted artists. It's because a lot of people either didn't like it and wouldn't recommend it, or were not intrigued enough to buy tickets. Not every show is guaranteed a run and pointing fingers everywhere except the production side is silly... but it sure is easy.

Updated On: 5/20/24 at 10:52 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 10:52am

There is no responsibility in having an opinion on a show. 

While I think anyone should see a show and make up their own mind if they have an interest in something, I'm not going to LIE about my thoughts on any show...unless my kid is in it. 

For MOST people (whether they lurk here or not) they see one or two shows a year. They are hoping to love what they spend big money on, they want people's actual opinion. I think those blinded by subject matter (this show), star appearances (Gatsby) or what have you, are useless. Blind idolatry is dangerous anywhere; in art, in politics, in life. Critical thinking is imperative, but surely lacking in this country 

I've loved shows others have hated, and vice versa. Doesn't make either "side" wrong. 

 

 

 

[yahyahyah]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:01am

dramamama611 said: "There is no responsibility in having an opinion on a show.

While I think anyone should see a show and make up their own mind if they have an interest in something, I'm not going to LIE about my thoughts on any show...unless my kid is in it.

For MOST people (whether they lurk here or not) they see one or two shows a year. They are hoping to love what they spend big money on, they want people's actual opinion. I think those blinded by subject matter (this show), star appearances (Gatsby) or what have you, are useless. Blind idolatry is dangerous anywhere; in art, in politics, in life. Critical thinking is imperative, but surely lacking in this country

I've loved shows others have hated, and vice versa. Doesn't make either "side" wrong.




Of course anyone can have an opinion. But you don’t think there is an inherent responsibility associated with publishing opinions in public forums? I disagree.

And as far as your “blind idolatry” notion— I’m not sure what work opening on Broadway there is where a person would not have some sort of subjective opinion/or interest going into It? Are they a Lempicka superfan, do they strongly dislike Huey Lewis’ music, or was their first Broadway show the 80s revival of Hal Prince’s Cabaret? Of course people are entering the theatre with preconceived ideas of what they are about to see. 
 

And in this modern age, Broadway message boards do have influence in our community, and that trickles down to reviewers, promoters, and then the general public. These boards do influence and contribute to public opinion, even if not directly  

 

[Overthewall]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:04am

I'm a fan of the show...since before Williamstown. And I've been really invested in watching the changes from all different versions of this show. (Some worked better than others - I still think Williamstown was the strongest version of this show - it had the clearest point of view.). I am well aware of how what came to Broadway was imperfect. Still can't wait for the cast album. 

But a lot of the marketing from the jump as well as post opening was misguided and shortsighted and tacky. Then attending yesterday's final performance, those speeches left a sour taste in my mouth. I stood there and was feeling for a lot of the cast and then was like... babes, save this for the post-mortem meeting with the co-pros and marketing team. Praise your cast, thank the fans, and get off the stage. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:04am

The guy used his KID in a staged video? Had some sympathy for him before. Now I see him as a complete loser. 

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:07am

yahyahyah said: "And word of mouth is powerful. It creates the “buzz” in our community, and yes, the concierges of the hotels and the like stay on that pulse too. Critics are also aware of it before they step into a show.


This board does wield power. I’m surprised you don’t understand that, or maybe you are just refuting any responsibility. I’d encourage everyone to consider that power/responsibility when they post."

 

By this logic, wouldn’t that responsibility make honesty all the more important in sharing one’s opinion? Surely you can’t think people came on here and insincerely wrote that the show didn’t work for them. 

 

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:23am

yahyahyah said: "Of course anyone can have an opinion. But you don’t think there is an inherent responsibility associated with publishing opinions in public forums? I disagree."

Actually, no I don't think there's a responsibility in posting on an anonymous message board.  There is nothing that puts our opinions here at any level above what you could just randomly hear on the street or see on Facebook or in any other place.  Sure Jordan probably posts more than a lot of people which means there might be more frequency bias in his opinions just because we see them more, but there's nothing stopping other people from doing the same (and certainly the "popular opinion" on this board has disagreed with him in the past).  In fact, people often want to hear from people that don't just love everything because that makes their opinion seem more "real".

Yes there's definitely piling on for shows that don't do well which may not be deserved (but who's to judge, really) and there are comments that are mean-spirited, but if someone is a frequent visitor of these boards or even just looking at anonymous message boards at all I think they should be aware of that and know how to selectively filter those out from their impression of a show.  There's also a lot of critical analysis that happens here which does explain why someone might or might not like a show.

I think the only irresponsible thing to do on this board would be to post an opinion of something you haven't actually seen without at least mentioning it.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:28am

Ironically, if Lempicka does develop a lasting following, it will be largely because the original production had such a brief run. There's more than one kind of success for a musical and there are many avenues to get there- as I've pointed out in this thread before, this is the season in which Merrily We Roll Along completed a four-decade redemption arc taking it from an infamous and humiliating flop to a blockbuster revival on track to win a bushel of Tonys.

Updated On: 5/20/24 at 11:28 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:48am

The only thing I'm "responsible" for is telling my truth.  Should we only allow positive reviews to be seen?  Or not call out shills for distorting reality?  Anyone reading discussion boards needs to read between the lines and (oh, here's that word again) critically think how that plays for them.  I don't need my bway singers to be pristine and amazing.  I do need them to be terrific actors and be on pitch. 

How will anyone know when a show is TRULY good if we all just say the "good parts" version of all of our reviews? My word is important to me.  If it's worth posting about, it's worth telling the truth.  You don't have to agree. Blind idolotry is NOT preconceived notions. it's ignoring what's in front of your nose and refusing to see what's there.  (The emperor's  clothes, if you will).  People LOVE Gatsby largely because they decided to love it because of JJ and Eva.  Not because of what they actually saw.  (Yes, I'm sure there are people that actually love it.)  I love both actors, as well, and the production still let me waaaay down.  They were both "ok" but the book and score were both atrocious and lacking.  (and yes, of course this is still my opinion)   

For what it's worth, I didn't even dislike this show.  (I didn't really like it either - which is actually worse - not getting me to be impassioned at all).   Shows fail for all sorts of reasons but the bottom line is: if you can't get people to buy tickets, you cannot succeed.  Great shows fail, bad show succeed.  IMO, how Rock of Ages ever transferred to Bway will always remain a mystery.  How BBAJ failed to soar ON bway will be too.  (I mean, I saw it both at the public and on Bway, and it fell flat). 

But no show can take a failure as everyone else's mistake or wrongdoing. When I was 22 I was fired for the first and only time.  Sure, for a long time I blamed everyone else for how that went down....but you know what?  I sucked at my job.   I doubt I was capable of excelling at that point in my life.  You cannot grow if you don't accept your role in things.  THAT goes for everyone and anyone.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 11:55am

yahyahyah said: "dramamama611 said: "There is no responsibility in having an opinion on a show.

While I think anyone should see a show and make up their own mind if they have an interest in something, I'm not going to LIE about my thoughts on any show...unless my kid is in it.

For MOST people (whether they lurk here or not) they see one or two shows a year. They are hoping to love what they spend big money on, they want people's actual opinion. I think those blinded by subject matter (this show), star appearances (Gatsby) or what have you, are useless. Blind idolatry is dangerous anywhere; in art, in politics, in life. Critical thinking is imperative, but surely lacking in this country

I've loved shows others have hated, and vice versa. Doesn't make either "side" wrong.




Of course anyone can have an opinion. But you don’t think there is an inherent responsibility associated with publishing opinions in public forums? I disagree.

And as far as your “blind idolatry” notion— I’m not sure what work opening on Broadway there is wherea person would not have some sort of subjective opinion/or interest goinginto It? Are they a Lempicka superfan, do they strongly dislike Huey Lewis’ music, or was their first Broadway show the 80s revival of Hal Prince’s Cabaret? Of course people are entering the theatre with preconceived ideas of what they are about to see.


And in this modern age,Broadway message boards do have influence in our community, and that trickles down to reviewers, promoters, and then the general public. These boards do influence and contribute to public opinion, even if not directly

"

Are you somehow implying the conversations on this board are indirectly responsible for this show closing because that is insane 

[gibsons2]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 12:20pm

Kad said: "Ironically, if Lempicka does develop a lasting following, it will be largely because the original production had such a brief run. There's more than one kind of success for a musical and there are many avenues to get there- as I've pointed out in this thread before, this is the season in which Merrily We Roll Along completed a four-decade redemption arc taking it from an infamous and humiliating flop to a blockbuster revival on track to win a bushel of Tonys."

All thanks to the not just competent but phenomenal director Maria Friedman and perfectly casted leads. One of the best directed, tightest productions I've ever seen on stage.

[OhHiii]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 12:30pm

It would seem that Matt and/or Rachel (specifically Rachel given word has it that Gatsby may be a nonsensical mess as well) would do well to log off of Broadway World and reflect on the choices they made that lead to a less successful version of a show that previously had garnered praise.

[OhHiii]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 12:35pm

And also, let’s not forget that MANY of the members on this board named Lempicka as the show they were most excited for before it started. So to say it’s all group think negativity is demonstrably false and a fantasy to shirk accountability for what ended up on the stage at the Longacre.

Updated On: 5/20/24 at 12:35 PM

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 12:45pm

Exactly. Excitement was real for this one, and many called it a front runner for Best Musical. What we got, wasn’t that. 

[leefowler]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 12:54pm

Are people truly suggesting we not post negative opinions here since it might influence public opinion, thus hurting a show?

Do people who accuse others of being “haters” ever hate things themselves?

People who call others “haters” are just insulted that some people don’t share their opinions. They feel disrespected, so they call people “haters” to feel better about themselves. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 12:56pm

It’s giving Swifties when people don’t like her new album, you’re a horribly misogynist that hates women in music. And it’s not a positive look on the legacy of this show if that’s what people are trying to rehabilitate here. 

[yahyahyah]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 1:01pm

NOWaWarning said: "yahyahyah said: "And word of mouth is powerful. It creates the “buzz” in our community, and yes, the concierges of the hotels and the like stay on that pulse too. Critics are also aware of it before they step into a show.


This board does wield power. I’m surprised you don’t understand that, or maybe you are just refuting any responsibility. I’d encourage everyone to consider that power/responsibility when they post."



By this logic, wouldn’t that responsibility make honesty all the more important in sharing one’s opinion? Surely you can’t think people came on here and insincerely wrote that the show didn’t work for them.

"

Of course honesty is important when sharing your opinion. How did you glean I thought otherwise? Not sure how that is applicable to my point/ board members denying influence over word-of-mouth, etc. 

[yahyahyah]

Posted: 5/20/24 at 1:04pm

hearthemsing22 said: "yahyahyah said: "dramamama611 said: "There is no responsibility in having an opinion on a show.

While I think anyone should see a show and make up their own mind if they have an interest in something, I'm not going to LIE about my thoughts on any show...unless my kid is in it.

For MOST people (whether they lurk here or not) they see one or two shows a year. They are hoping to love what they spend big money on, they want people's actual opinion. I think those blinded by subject matter (this show), star appearances (Gatsby) or what have you, are useless. Blind idolatry is dangerous anywhere; in art, in politics, in life. Critical thinking is imperative, but surely lacking in this country

I've loved shows others have hated, and vice versa. Doesn't make either "side" wrong.




Of course anyone can have an opinion. But you don’t think there is an inherent responsibility associated with publishing opinions in public forums? I disagree.

And as far as your “blind idolatry” notion— I’m not sure what work opening on Broadway there is wherea person would not have some sort of subjective opinion/or interest goinginto It? Are they a Lempicka superfan, do they strongly dislike Huey Lewis’ music, or was their first Broadway show the 80s revival of Hal Prince’s Cabaret? Of course people are entering the theatre with preconceived ideas of what they are about to see.


And in this modern age,Broadway message boards do have influence in our community, and that trickles down to reviewers, promoters, and then the general public. These boards do influence and contribute to public opinion, even if not directly

"

Are you somehow implying the conversations on this board are indirectly responsible for this show closing because that is insane"

Honestly questioning if maybe there is just a generation divide here. 

Why do you think businesses pay social media influencers thousands and thousands (and thousands?!) of dollars for a post? Because they know the power of influence in an online forum today. And views. 
 

Please explain to me (like I’m a child even) how the 80,000K+ views of this LEMPICKA thread has no bearing on word of mouth, or public discourse of the production.