LuPone on Sondheim, ALW, Laurents, Prince and more- Page 3

[joevitus]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 9:37am

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Exactly what BJR said.

One director can create wonderful art, and do so by supporting his company and keeping up moral in a creative environment. Another director can create art that is just as wonderful, but through harsh and stifling practices that don’t make actors feel wanted or appreciated, and sometimes harassed.

The latter is not a good director."

I think both of you are confusing being a good person with being a good director. I don't think they are the same things. There are directors who are wonderful to the people they work with, but their staging isn't good, and there are directors who can be monsters but create great art. Of course, the best is a director who is both wonderful to work with and creates art. 

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 9:41am

Regarding Hal Prince. If you've never seen this documentary from 1978, filmed when Prince was rehearsing EVITA in London and preparing SWEENEY TODD for Broadway, I highly recommend it.  I also think it gives a pretty insightful perspective on his manner in the rehearsal room.

I leave it then to you to decide if Mr. Prince was a bully or if perhaps LuPone was / is neurotic, insecure and continually looking for new stories that paint her as a victim and keep her in the spotlight of Broadway message boards.

Hal Prince 1978 Documentary

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 9:42am

She is a horror show of a woman who is rude, demanding, obnoxious and loves to be the victim. Numerous people I know have worked with her in the rehearsal room and said she was awful, she loves the sound of her own voice.

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 11:18am

QueenAlice said: "Regarding Hal Prince. If you've never seen this documentary from 1978, filmed when Prince was rehearsing EVITA in London and preparing SWEENEY TODD for Broadway, I highly recommend it. I also think it gives a pretty insightful perspective on his manner in the rehearsal room.

I leave it thento you to decide if Mr. Prince was a bully or if perhaps LuPone was / is neurotic, insecure and continually looking for new stories that paint her as a victim and keep her in the spotlight of Broadway message boards.

Hal Prince 1978 Documentary"

I just watched the first 10 minutes of that video and it certainly suggests that Ms. LuPone was likely not singled out by Mr. Prince for any ill treatment. He's a sharp, direct whip-cracker with the entire cast in London, very "my way or the highway".

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 12:34pm

I enjoyed reading this thread. I read the interview a couple days ago. I've also listened to her audiobook reading of her memoir (many years ago), as well as a couple podcast interviews with her, and feel like I know a lot about this woman - at least, the persona of herself that she wants us to see.

A few random thoughts:

In regards to Evita, she was an alto/mezzo singing a soprano role. That's why it was so hard for her. I'm sure plenty of sopranos have played the role and had no problem with it. But if you compare her performance to others on YouTube, hers was thrilling because it's always exciting to hear a singer hit high notes above their expected range (i.e. when old school baritones play Jean Valjean or The Phantom). She needs to stop complaining about the Evita score. ALW doesn't "hate women," she was just "singing against type." And she succeeded, obviously.

I think even she would admit that she's not very "nice." However, I am curious what it would have been like for her had she been born in 1989 instead of 1949. The patriarchy within the theater world (and the world at large) is starting to crumble. How much of her "b*tchiness" is due to a lifetime of fighting against men with equally large egos but more power? And had a man acted the way that she did in the 80's and 90's, would they have a "bad reputation" as well, or just be regarded as "a little rough around the edges?"

She's had an amazing career, and is one of the most famous and successful Broadway stars of all time. She is now 70, and about to play Joanne in Company on Broadway. It could very well be the last "big" thing that she does before she retires, and she will likely be getting a lot of attention as she starts to make her exit from the business, and let's be honest, from this world (unless she pulls an Arthur Laurents and is still a bulldozer at 90). How does she want to be remembered: as a bitter, nasty diva, or as a divine queen? Is she willing to drop the "tough as nails" stuff and settle into being a warm-hearted passer of the torch, or will she be publicly spitting on the graves of those who "wronged" her until the very end? It is up to her, and will be interested to see.

[morosco]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 12:50pm

I would love for Patti to be a guest on the Dr. Phil show. Maybe he could get to the bottom of it all.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 1:19pm

There absolutely is a difference between tough and demanding (which I think all B'way directors have to be in order to get results) and abusive and vile (which Fosse, Robbins and Bennett were accused of being even during their lifetimes). 

I've noticed that Lupone often thinks the two are the same. ALW made a business decision to switch to Glenn Close. Was it the nice cuddly thing to do? Not necessarily. But was it abusive? No. It was a business decision. People get fired all the time, and rarely is it a positive experience, but almost everyone moves on from it. And most people don;t get a severance package the way Lupone did. 

Same thing with Hal Prince. Even in the worst version of the story he comes across as a tough and demanding person who has very high expectations for his shows. It doesn't (to me anyway) cross the line into bullying and abuse. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 1:21pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "I enjoyed reading this thread. I read the interview a couple days ago. I've also listened to her audiobook reading of her memoir (many years ago), as well as a couple podcast interviews with her, and feel like I know a lot about this woman - at least, the persona of herself that she wants us to see.

A few random thoughts:

In regards to Evita, she was an alto/mezzo singing a soprano role. That's why it was so hard for her. I'm sure plenty of sopranos have played the role and had no problem with it.But if you compare her performance to others on YouTube, hers was thrilling because it's always exciting to hear a singer hit high notes above their expected range (i.e. when old school baritones play Jean Valjean or The Phantom). She needs to stop complaining about the Evita score. ALW doesn't "hate women," she was just "singing against type." And she succeeded, obviously.

I think even she would admit that she's not very "nice." However, I am curious what it would have been like for her had she been born in 1989 instead of 1949. The patriarchy within the theater world (and the world at large) is starting to crumble. How much of her "b*tchiness" is due to a lifetime of fighting against men with equally large egos but more power? And had a man acted the way that she did in the 80's and 90's, would they have a "bad reputation" as well, or just be regarded as "a little rough around the edges?"

She's had an amazing career, and is one of the most famous and successful Broadway stars of all time. She is now 70, and about to play Joanne in Company on Broadway. It could very well be the last "big" thing that she does before she retires, and she will likely be getting a lot of attention as she starts to make her exit from the business, and let's be honest, from this world (unless she pulls an Arthur Laurents and is still a bulldozer at 90). How does she want to be remembered: as a bitter, nasty diva, or as a divine queen? Is she willing to drop the "tough as nails" stuff and settle into being a warm-hearted passer of the torch, or will she be publicly spitting on the graves of those who "wronged" her until the very end? It is up to her, and will be interested to see."

If LuPone's bad attitude is the result of "fighting against men" in a sexist era, then why don't Bernadette Peters, Donna McKechnie, Ann Reinking, Christine Ebersole, or Elaine Paige--all of the same generation--have similar reputations as divas or egomaniacs? Funny if it's a generation-meets-gender issue, she's the only one showing the symptoms.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 1:50pm

joevitus said: "If LuPone's bad attitude is the result of"fighting against men" in a sexist era, then why don't Bernadette Peters, Donna McKechnie,Ann Reinking, Christine Ebersole, or Elaine Paige--all of the same generation--have similar reputations as divas or egomaniacs? Funny if it's a generation-meets-gender issue, she's the only one showing the symptoms."

They're all different people who have had different experiences within the industry?

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 2:50pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "She needs to stop complaining about the Evita score. ALW doesn't "hate women," she was just "singing against type.""

I always thought her "ALW hates women" argument was downright laughable.

 

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 4:14pm

Lot666 said: "The Distinctive Baritone said: "She needs to stop complaining about the Evita score. ALW doesn't "hate women," she was just "singing against type.""

I always thought her "ALW hates women" argument was downright laughable."

I always thought that comment was meant half-heartedly?

Anyway, I don't want to wade too deep into this other than to say that both things can be true--LuPone can be "difficult" and so can the men she describes working with. And just because a director seems pleasant enough in a puff-piece documentary doesn't mean they're like that all the time. And generally nice people can have other sides to them. But the thing that's making me really scratch my head is everyone complaining how Patti tells her stories to make her seem the victim... I mean don't most people see the world from their own perspectives? What is she supposed to do, say "Hal Prince told us all that the LA company was better than us, and we deserved that because we weren't very good"?

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 4:28pm

Actually, Ravenclaw this has nothing to do with perspective. It has to do with accountability and integrity.  People all the time own up to their mistakes or their contribution to the problem and the public usually finds it refreshing because it's honest.   Never has LuPone said, 'you know what, he or she was right and I was wrong.' Never.  With her its always that she was bullied - by the cast, by the composer, by the audience - and on it goes.   And as such, it basically makes her look ego-maniacal.  I can't believe a word she says at this point. It's too much of the world filtered through glasses with no perspective that is the problem.

 

 



 

Updated On: 10/23/19 at 04:28 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 4:45pm

I haven't heard any "horror stories" of people working with Patti. The people I know who have worked with her or know her all speak very fondly. 

Personally, I prefer her brash and blunt nature- even when I  disagree with what she says or thinks- over the bland, polished, insincere, PR firmed and social media-ready nonsense that passes for personality from Broadway performers these days. 

[ljay889]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 5:05pm

I completely agree, Kad. I commend Patti for having the freedom to say whatever the hell she wants. She’s a 70 year-old woman and I’m not going to judge her for speaking her mind regarding HER truths.

Even Bernadette always delivers statements and interviews that feel completely sanitized and obviously written by a PR firm.
I will take Patti’s honest and brash style over that any day. It feels very similar to Elaine Stritch saying whatever was on her mind. I always noticed the parallels between the two of them.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 5:27pm

Bernadette's never been a particularly good interview "personality"- she's very guarded and private, and that comes across in interviews. 

Patti loves to dish and she plays up the part of an old school broad very well. 

The fact is, if people found her intolerable to work with, she wouldn't be working. 

[BJR]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 6:13pm

Those passing judgement on whether or not she takes enough “responsibility”, you don’t know her, you weren’t there, and where do you get off judging how somehow views their own life?

I get saying you don’t enjoy reading it or hearing it. OK fine. Don’t.

But the analysis and stern judgment is a but much. Like, who are you? No one could analyze you and pass judgment?

It’s her own life. If she views herself as a victim, what’s it to you?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 9:01pm

Kad said: "...The fact is, if people found her intolerable to work with, she wouldn't be working."

And the fact is also that she never worked for Prince again, even though there are roles she might have played in PHANTOM, SWEENEY TODD, CANDIDE, CABARET or even A DOLL'S LIFE.

You are correct, of course, that she has worked with a lot of other top-notch people, but never again with Harold Prince, as far as I can tell. Of course, that might have been HER choice.

I've had a couple of days to think about that paragraph claiming Prince treated her "like a stupid chorus girl". I think the passage speaks volumes about LuPone, not so much about Prince. As I said above, she could have handled it by simply saying, "I'm sorry. I thought that was what you wanted. Tell me what you would like instead." Escalating the matter to the point of PTSD was her choice.

[sit&dither]

Posted: 10/23/19 at 9:25pm

GavestonPS said: "...I've had a couple of days to think about that paragraph claiming Prince treated her "like a stupid chorus girl". I think the passage speaks volumes about LuPone, not so much about Prince. As I said above, she could have handled it by simply saying, "I'm sorry. I thought that was what you wanted. Tell me what you would like instead." Escalating the matter to the point of PTSD was her choice."

I, too, have had a couple of days to think about that paragraph and her self-comparison to "a stupid chorus girl." I'm convinced that implicit in that quotation is her ego and sense of superiority, as if Prince's behavior was only unacceptable because she was THE LEADING LADY. But if one is going to label it bullying, the "rank" of the victim shouldn't matter.

[east side story]

Posted: 10/24/19 at 10:36am

I adore Patti, have followed her career since childhood, and cannot wait to see her in Company. She is a living legend, and has earned her seat at the table several times over. But this person is incapable of accepting responsibility for the part she plays in all of her anecdotes. She continuously paints herself as a victim, never owning up to her sharp tongue or entitlement as potentially having a negative impact on these experiences. And she truly needs to move on from the ALW schtick. It's a business, and not every decision is going to soothe your ego.

You will always find conflict if you have a habit of (unconsciously) seeking it out. 

[Kad]

Posted: 10/24/19 at 10:51am

GavestonPS said: "Kad said: "...The fact is, if people found her intolerable to work with, she wouldn't be working."

And the fact is also that she never worked for Prince again, even though there are roles she might have played in PHANTOM, SWEENEY TODD, CANDIDE, CABARET or even A DOLL'S LIFE.

You are correct, of course, that she has worked with a lot of othertop-notch people, but never again with Harold Prince, as far as I can tell. Of course, that might have been HER choice.

I've had a couple of days to think about that paragraph claiming Prince treated her "like a stupid chorus girl". I think the passage speaks volumes about LuPone, not so much about Prince. As I said above, she could have handled it by simply saying, "I'm sorry. I thought that was what you wanted. Tell me what you would like instead." Escalating the matter to the point of PTSD was her choice."

Well, it doesn't take a leap to assume Prince didn't care much for her, either. After all, in his memoir, he lavishes praise on Elaine Paige and Mandy Patinkin... while the only thing he says about her is that she played Eva on Broadway. 

[carnzee]

Posted: 10/24/19 at 11:09am

I don't see any bullying on LuPone's part. Saying negative things about celebrated people isn't bullying.

I think she is someone who nurses a grudge, and that's not healthy.

All these posters saying "it was a business decision, just get over it" seem to forget that her main beef with ALW is HOW he fired her. Had he handled her firing from Sunset differently, and less cowardly (and treated her better leading up to the firing) I think she would have a better attitude about the whole thing.

Updated On: 10/24/19 at 11:09 AM

[east side story]

Posted: 10/24/19 at 12:17pm

I couldn't agree less.

I think she not only holds a grudge, but also allows it to define her. She knows what her fanbase (largely queer community members) live for -- a juicy story. Her anecdotes have become a meal ticket. It has literally become a huge portion of not only her career, but what she has become known for with newer fans. And quite frankly, if she hadn't had a career resurgence in 2005, her sitting around complaining about how awful everyone else is would make her no different from Faye Dunaway. Thankfully she possesses an unimpeachable level of talent.

[joevitus]

Posted: 10/24/19 at 12:32pm

It's hard to respect someone who doesn't want to be treated like a quote "dumb chorus girl." So the diva must be pampered, while the chorus person (usually the hardest working person in any show) is an idiot who can be abused. It's so telling. 

I respect Lu Pone's performance as Evita. I actually think she's the best Evita, as far as recordings go. In the case of her other shows, I think other performers have done better by whatever role she played. It's baffling to me that someone with such lousy diction would be hired for any Sondheim show, when the lyrics are so important and often are fired at a rapid pace, requiring superlative pronunciation technique. What she does with Joanne will be...interesting. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/24/19 at 2:11pm

carnzee said: "All these posters saying "it was a business decision, just get over it" seem to forget that her main beef with ALW is HOW he fired her. Had he handled her firing from Sunset differently, and less cowardly (and treated her better leading up to the firing) I think she would have a better attitude about the whole thing."

Perhaps he was warned to expect a poor reaction and he simply wanted to avoid the inevitable high drama of dealing with her.

[devonian.t]

Posted: 10/24/19 at 2:30pm

joevitus said: "It's hard to respect someone who doesn't want to be treated like a quote "dumb chorus girl." So the diva must be pampered, while the chorus person (usually the hardest working person in any show) is an idiot who can be abused. It's so telling.

Precisely- it's not Prince who used the term "dumb chorus girl".  That is a concept that LuPone seems to believe exists.  Disrespectful.