Michael Riedel's unhinged post-Tonys column- Page 2

[joevitus]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 3:31pm

RippedMan said: "What's unhinged about it? He seems to be just pointing out that Broadway, as a whole, has been pretty damn inclusive. I don't see any fault in that."

Nor I. 

 

[themadmarchhare]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 3:31pm

Not to offer any takes on the article but this sentence is really bizarre and kind of funny: “The Greeks started it, and most of them were bisexual”

[joevitus]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 3:43pm

gibsons2 said: "In principle I agree with the article, that blaming racism on the fact that the Slave Play didn't win yesterday is incorrect. I didn't see The Inheritance, so I can't judge which play is better. I'll leave it to those who saw both productions. What really wasasinine in the article is the claim that the theater, when it becamean early safe space and support mediumfor gays during the AIDS epidemic, automatically became diverse and non-racist. Being gay friendly doesn't mean not racist. Why Riedel made this false equivalency, is beyond my understanding."

Maybe because a gay white man (who died of AIDS) cared enough about the Black experience to present a mostly Black cast in the story of a Black trio who broke the race barrier? You know that thing Reidel not only included in his piece, but concluded it with? There's a pretty strong connection between gay artsts on Broadway helping to make a place for Black actors, going back to Tom O'Horgan utilizing color-blind casting in Hair and Jesus Christ Superstar.

And, oh, there's the whole Joe Papp connection. Papp wasn't gay, but he was also a white guy who wanted to break down the racial barriers in American theater, and also gay gay voices and talents a chance to be heard and seen.

In other words. many people in the theater, gay and straight, have cared and worked to make American theater more inclusive and to remove racist practices for quite some time now. Doesn't mean there aren't still issues. Does mean there's a weird tendency lately to treat the American theater as an openly hostile, racist institution, which it is not.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 3:54pm

I disagree strongly with the assessment that THE INHERITANCE is factually a better play than SLAVE PLAY.

Both plays had scenes full of bad writing, flabby writing, cliché writing, boring writing. Both plays had scenes of transformational writing, brilliant writing, wise and true writing that showed the world in new ways. 

For me personally, the good in SLAVE PLAY vastly outweighed the bad. I was struck by a boatload of ideas I had never faced before and I loved re-examining those ideas over and over weeks later. THE INHERITANCE? Nah, not so much. I was moved by the honestly earned climax to Part One and very little else, feeling very manipulated and thus bored by most of the other emotional arcs of the play. 

FYI, I'm a middle-aged white, gay, Jewish, east coast-raised liberal-- the perfect cliché playgoer. I loved Matthew Lopez's TONYs speech-- he sounds like a mensch. I don't care how detestable Jeremy O. Harris is as a public figure. My view is his play is simply richer and deserved the TONY instead.

 

[Kad]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 4:50pm

It’s nice that Riedel, in order to push his right wing culture war contribution that unsurprisingly plays well with some here, has to sidestep the numerous blind spots in order to stick to his “Broadway is plenty diverse already, thank you” message. Things like the fact Black playwright hasn’t won Best Play in over 30 years, or the overwhelming whiteness of the Broadway League and the theater owners and artistic directors in NYC, or the words of countless professionals documenting their experiences with racism within the industry.

He uses gay representation as a sleight of hand here.

[JGPR2]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:02pm

"Things like the fact Black playwright hasn’t won Best Play in over 30 years, or the overwhelming whiteness of the Broadway League and the theater owners and artistic directors in NYC, or the words of countless professionals documenting their experiences with racism within the industry."

So are you trying to say that the voters are racist and will not vote for a Black playwright or not enough Black playwrights get a chance to have their show get to Broadway? Maybe both?

Updated On: 9/27/21 at 05:02 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:13pm

jv92 said: "I abhor Riedel as a personality, I disagree with his politics, and I think he’s a sh*tty writer/“historian” (note the quotes)and has no regard for Broadway or theatrebeyond $$$ and “scandal.”Having said that, this is the first time I’ve agreed with him in about 15 years. I didn’t detect his usual racism or misogyny in this, and it’s a nice reminder of the sociopolitical goodness this field and industry has done and is capable of. We have lost sight of that amongst all the hang-wringing."

I detect his usual nonsense because he can't help himself but his thesis isn't wrong. At some point, telling liberal white people that they are racist monsters for liking the multicultural gay play by the Latino gay man more than the multicultural sex play by the Black gay man is going to sound, uh, dumb. 

[Kad]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:14pm

There is undeniably a lack of representation of non-white writers on Broadway, despite being well represented off-Broadway and beyond. And for that matter, women are also poorly represented despite being represented well elsewhere.

The Pulitzer Prize for Drama has not been given to a white male writer for ten years. For comparison’s sake, before this year, the last time the Tony for Best Play went to someone who *wasn’t* a white man was 2009. And before that was 1998. And they were both Yasmina Reza. That’s over 20 years, hundreds of plays.

It’s no longer a question of the work not existing or not being visible. It does and is. But why isn’t it making it to Broadway?

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:33pm

JDonaghy4 said: "At some point, telling liberal white people that they are racist monsters for liking the multicultural gay play by the Latino gay man more than the multicultural sex play by the Black gay man is going to sound, uh, dumb."

Who is saying that? Let's try to keep our eyes on the ball.

 

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:34pm

So many of us are obsessed with color counting- and so many posts state the same tired message. How about dropping the race baiting for a while- and talk about quality and content. Those qualities used to count for something- and still do for many. That is the point Reidel was trying to make. And, if you watched the Tonys last night and think black representation in the theater community is lacking- something is wrong with your vision. I applaud diversity and inclusion for all- but not at the cost of counting colors for every production. There are plenty of choices these days for all kinds of productions and all kinds of interests. 

Updated On: 9/27/21 at 05:34 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:43pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "So many of us are obsessed with color counting- and so many posts state the same tired message. How about dropping the race baiting for a while- and talk about quality and content. Those qualities used to count for something- and still do for many. That is the point Reidel was trying to make. And, if you watched the Tonys last night and think black representation in the theater community is lacking- something is wrong with your vision."

And plenty of these works ARE quality. And still not making it to Broadway. (And as if only the highest quality of works make it to or succeed on Broadway anyway).

And yes, onstage there is lots of representation. Offstage? Not much at all. But apparently if you don’t see it, you don’t care. And if there are numbers to back it up, you think it’s distasteful because you can’t argue it. 

Jamming your fingers in your ears doesn’t actually solve anything. But apparently that’s all you want to do.

Updated On: 9/27/21 at 05:43 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:43pm

Kad said: "It’s nice that Riedel, in order to push his right wing culture war contribution that unsurprisingly plays well with some here, has to sidestep the numerous blind spots in order to stick to his “Broadway is plenty diverse already, thank you” message. Things like the fact Black playwright hasn’t won Best Play in over 30 years, or the overwhelming whiteness of the Broadway League and the theater owners and artistic directors in NYC, or the words of countless professionals documenting their experiences with racism within the industry.

He uses gay representation as a sleight of hand here."

It takes a weird perversion logic--and common sense--to see in an article that highlights the success of gay men and people of color--as part of a "right wing culture war."

And no, facts aren't "sleight of hand." Gay and straight directors have worked hard to make the theater more inclusive. 

[Kad]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:48pm

joevitus said: "Kad said: "It’s nice that Riedel, in order to push his right wing culture war contribution that unsurprisingly plays well with some here, has to sidestep the numerous blind spots in order to stick to his “Broadway is plenty diverse already, thank you” message. Things like the fact Black playwright hasn’t won Best Play in over 30 years, or the overwhelming whiteness of the Broadway League and the theater owners and artistic directors in NYC, or the words of countless professionals documenting their experiences with racism within the industry.

He uses gay representation as a sleight of hand here."

It takes a weird perversion logic--and common sense--to see in an article that highlights the success of gay men and people of color--as part of a"right wing culture war."

And no, facts aren't "sleight of hand." Gay and straight directors have worked hard to make the theater more inclusive."

He has cherry picked instances. Broadway has been around for almost a century, and he has chosen a handful of instances to make a sweeping case for that Broadway is sufficiently representative, which anyone with the ability to read the numerous surveys on this very topic can see, numerically, that’s simply not true. How many Black directors have helmed Broadway productions in the last decade? Or Asian, or Latin? How many of those folks have won Tonys, or gone on to direct multiple times? 

Updated On: 9/27/21 at 05:48 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 5:49pm

Kad said: "There is undeniably a lack of representation of non-white writers on Broadway, despite being well represented off-Broadway and beyond. And for that matter, women are also poorly represented despite being represented well elsewhere.

The Pulitzer Prize for Drama has not been given to a white male writer for ten years. For comparison’s sake, before this year, the last time the Tony for Best Play went to someone who *wasn’t* a white man was 2009. And before that was 1998. And they were both Yasmina Reza. That’s over 20 years, hundreds of plays.

It’s no longer a question of the work not existing or not being visible. It does and is. But why isn’t it making it to Broadway?"

I couldn't agree more re more representation. I couldn't agree more that there are brilliant voices that arent getting heard. But Hamilton and Fun Home and Bands Visit and Inheritance and i could go on and on-- its changing and evolving and progressing. And i think the tone of "ITS STILL ALL WHITE OLD MEN DOING EVERYTHING" is just off base- and that is very much what I hear when the Tony voters are accused of racism because they preferred the Inheritance to Slave Play, or when I hear that we need more voices saying SPECIFIC THINGS. We don't need more diverse voices who then say what we want them to say about diversity, and the discounting of Inheritance or any other work by a POC as insufficiently woke/diverse/important, is just cuh-razy.

 

(not saying you said those things, but im explaining why i agree with your post here 100% and still don't think the content of Reidel's little rant is so off-base)

[BizBuzz]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 7:04pm

I couldn’t see what was wrong with the article. I agreed with it all.

Broadway has always led the way in progress and awareness, as has theatre in general. Let’s not forget so much good achieved.

Could and should recent movements have been quicker to be more inclusive and diverse, of course. Have there been mistakes of misogyny, absolutely. Where there’s money, there’s tigers. It’ll always be the case. But our field has still always been way out in the lead to stand up and fight against injustice, telling the stories to educate audiences to make change to future generations.

I am getting so tired of us not celebrating anymore and instead going “yes but…” or “we shouldn’t be celebrating because” struggles are real but there is a lot of good we’ve done in this industry, and I pray more to follow and always more. But I have to say it’s starting to cross a line of “eeesh, here we go again. What ain’t right now”

We seem to be veering so far off now that it is going to make creating anything impossible. We are trying to be so progressive we will actually tie ourselves up with rules and representation that will make creation controlled or just so unviable to fund. As I just read, let’s keep the real fight alive.

Let’s also remember Broadway and commercial theatre in general is indeed commercial and huge money. You want progress quicker the roots come from educating way beyond just our industry; it’s the audience who watch that ultimately fund. We are usually leading by far the way in telling the stories and struggles of minorities or changing cultures or times, so that audiences learn and progress. It’s sad but the world ain’t as quick to learn as it is to send a tweet and get likes, social media fools us to believe change towards our opinion or desire for progress can be instant with a thousand plus like endorsements; it’s false.

 

Updated On: 9/27/21 at 07:04 PM

[gibsons2]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 7:34pm

JDonaghy4 said: "Kad said: "There is undeniably a lack of representation of non-white writers on Broadway, despite being well represented off-Broadway and beyond. And for that matter, women are also poorly represented despite being represented well elsewhere.

The Pulitzer Prize for Drama has not been given to a white male writer for ten years. For comparison’s sake, before this year, the last time the Tony for Best Play went to someone who *wasn’t* a white man was 2009. And before that was 1998. And they were both Yasmina Reza. That’s over 20 years, hundreds of plays.

It’s no longer a question of the work not existing or not being visible. It does and is. But why isn’t it making it to Broadway?"

I couldn't agree more re more representation. I couldn't agree more that there are brilliant voices that arent getting heard. But Hamilton and Fun Home and Bands Visit and Inheritance and i could go on and on-- its changing and evolving andprogressing. And i think the tone of "ITS STILL ALL WHITE OLD MEN DOING EVERYTHING" is just off base- and that is very much what I hear when the Tony voters are accused of racism because they preferred the Inheritance to Slave Play, or when I hear that we need more voices saying SPECIFIC THINGS. We don't need more diverse voices who then say what we want them to say about diversity, and the discounting of Inheritance or any other work by a POC as insufficiently woke/diverse/important, is just cuh-razy.



(not saying you said those things, but im explaining why i agree with your post here 100% and still don't think the content of Reidel's little rant is so off-base)"

Fun Home is an example of the diverse Broadway?....

[Tag]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 8:11pm

gibsons2 said: "Fun Home is an example of the diverse Broadway?...."

Yes, representing those who identify as funeral directors.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 8:46pm

Well, it was written by a gay man, based on a lesbian’s work, and succeeded? I’d say yeah.

The take away is that this is a business. Neither of these plays were hits which might give some producers pause from bringing shows like this to Broadway. So let’s just celebrate that they both were running.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/27/21 at 11:45pm

SouthernCakes said: "Well, it was written by a gay man, based on a lesbian’s work, and succeeded? I’d say yeah.

The take away is that this is a business. Neither of these plays were hits which might give some producers pause from bringing shows like this to Broadway. So let’s just celebrate that they both were running. "

It wasn’t written by a gay man. The book was by lesbian playwright Lisa Kron and the score was by Jeanine Tesori. It was the first musical written solely by women to be awarded by the Tonys.

Updated On: 9/27/21 at 11:45 PM

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:00am

It was a great musical- PERIOD!

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:08am

Diversity doesn't need to be and should never be about tokenism. It's through the experiences of those different from us in one way or another that we understand we are all human beings in the end, sharing the same capacity of sympathy and the full range of human emotions. That's why Fun Home works and Slave Play barely does. Despite the conversations the latter might have started, it nevertheless provides very little substance for the "understanding" part.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 12:28am

BWAY Baby2 said: "It was a great musical- PERIOD!"

I don’t understand why the concept of representation seems to be a personal affront to you. 

Updated On: 9/28/21 at 12:28 AM

[A Director]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 2:11am

I could care less what Michael Riedel writes.  On the other hand, based on comments on this thread, we have a long, long way to go. Some of the people who have posted believe they are liberal; you are not.

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 4:59am

Riedel just get hotter looking with age.

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 9/28/21 at 6:11am

That entire rag is based upon white/straight/male .... perceived grievances.  The people who write for it lack basic morality, but those who read it are even worse.