Not having Betsy Struxness in the Hamilton movie does a disservice to the show- Page 2

[Loopin’theloop]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 5:01am

SouthernCakes said: "I wouldn’t be that harsh on here. Plenty of leading actors don’t do 8 shows a week. It’s tough. So why should the ensemble - especially in a show like Hamilton where they are on stage non stop and making a fraction of what the leads are making - be any different? It’s rigorous and if her hearts not in it, bow out. Which is what she did. "
 

Because a leading actor has more exposure and the pressures of the role are different. You often have to live like a monk or a nun to get through a leading role, not only because of the vocal and physical challenges but also the massive emotional and physiological marathon you might be running as both the character and as the actor impacted by said character. Ensemble members do not have to deal with anything on that level. Sorry. The ensemble are hugely, hugely important but it’s not the same.

 

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 5:19am

Because a leading actor has more exposure and the pressures of the role are different. You often have to live like a monk or a nun to get through a leading role, not only because of the vocal and physical challenges but also the massive emotional and physiological marathon you might be running as both the character and as the actor impacted by said character. Ensemble members do not have to deal with anything on that level. Sorry. The ensemble are hugely, hugely important but it’s not the same.

Maybe being the ensemble doesn’t come with the pressure or emotional strain of a lead role, but oftentimes the physical strain is much greater. It depends on the show, but the ensemble tracks in Hamilton look exhausting. If you’re feeling burnt out and you’re no longer being fulfilled, there’s nothing wrong with leaving as long as you give notice and don’t screw anyone over. I don’t know anything beyond her statement, so maybe there’s more to the story, but it seems like she exited in a professional manner.

Which track was hers? The one Ariana DeBose did in the recording? 

 

[GhostXmasPast]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 6:16am

There are more details beyond her thinking / departure from Hamilton in the piece she composed for The Ensemblist:

http://www.theensemblist.com/blog/2020/2/6/especially-the-dancers

This is also from the general time where Javier initially broached the fact that the movie was not the “Original Broadway Cast.”

It’s worth a read - and worth discussing the relative role ensembles play in various productions.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 7:15am

Okay, I read Betsy’s statement. Where in any of it did she say she was forced out or they made things so difficult for her she left the show? Her reasons are exactly why many finally leave the industry. It happens to MANY. It’s so obvious many of you on here have never taken leaps in careers or your lives. For many of us, we’ve gotten to try everything we’ve wanted and many things lose their appeal after a few years. Countless times you find you liked one aspect of something but not the other stuff. You move on. Many just stick around and stay miserable for decades wishing for another life. Many of us just change it. That’s what she did and says so. Once the creative contribution stopped, she was bored. It happens. By the time the show took off, she was tired and was taking it out on others, so she knew it was time to go. That’s called - making a sacrifice. The show was a huge hit and great things were happening but she wasn’t into it anymore and miserable. I’ve been there several times and my career journey has taken me on so many creative reaches that continue.  I’ve taken risks and they’ve all been career changers for me.  

FYI: her descriptions are exactly why Streisand never returned to Broadway. From her very first show in 1962 - I CAN GET IT FOR YOU WHOLESALE, she hated it. Once the show was frozen, she hated her life. Equity had to intervene as she was ad-libbing and doing her main number “Miss Marmelstein” differently each night. She was forced to stop and do the show exactly each night. It became boring. She did her second show FUNNY GIRL for obvious reasons - it would catapult her career further.  She hated the 2 years she was in it. She’s talked about feeling like she was in a prison term and had a calendar in her dressing room where she’d cross off the days left. She was also on Demarol to control the stress of that 8 performances a week schedule. After her Broadway run ended she did FUNNY GIRL on the West End. Pregnancy cut her run short and that’s when she left the stage forever.  Her dream was to be on Broadway.  Did it, done it.  She moved on.  Like Betsy did.  

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 8:11am

I don’t think some of you understand the physical toll performing the same exact strenuous choreography 8x/week (including 5 show weekends) takes. Betsy was clearly tired and had clearly reached the end of her rope on being in 6 ensembles over the course of 6 years. She left the show because it had lost its magic for her. Stepping aside meant making room for someone who was ready to meet those challenges.

As for Emmy, she left the show to pursue television projects, went on to open the Chicago company of Hamilton, and eventually lead the tour as Angelica. I highly doubt she regrets her decision either.

[schubox]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 8:59am

It seems like she left of a valid reason and no one bears her any ill will. And she is right to point out that this D+ recording is not the original Broadway cast. But I think she vastly overestimates how much the average person cares that a couple of ensemble members are missing. I've been involved with several conversations with first time viewers over the weekend and not one of them knew or cared that an original ensemble member wasn't there. People are showing up for the principals. It sucks but that's the way the world works. 

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 9:20am

I don’t understand why this still keeps being brought up? So she left on her terms, sounds like that was the right decision for her.

The majority of people who see this film will not know she ever existed. I don’t think her absence is a disservice at all. I saw the original cast both off-broadway and on, and honestly cannot remember her.

Life goes on.

[Loopin’theloop]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 9:22am

NOWaWarning said: "Because a leading actor has more exposure and the pressures of the role are different. You often have to live like a monk or a nun to get through a leading role, not only because of the vocal and physical challenges but also the massive emotional and physiological marathon you might be running as both the character and as the actor impacted by said character. Ensemble members do not have to deal with anything on that level. Sorry. The ensemble are hugely, hugely important but it’s not the same.

Maybe being the ensemble doesn’t come with the pressure or emotional strain of a lead role, but oftentimes the physical strain is much greater. It depends on the show, but the ensemble tracks in Hamilton look exhausting. If you’re feeling burnt out and you’re no longer being fulfilled, there’s nothing wrong with leaving as long as you give notice and don’t screw anyone over. I don’t know anything beyond her statement, so maybe there’s more to the story, but itseems like she exited in a professional manner.

Which track was hers? The one Ariana DeBose did in the recording?

"

Oh gosh absolutely! Being in the ensemble of a musical is hard, hard work and it kicks your ass. I was just responding specifically to the question of why leads sometimes don’t do all eight shows and what makes them different. 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 9:41am

Also, A CHORUS LINE is about all this: the nameless chorus/ensemble/dancer. Those performers in the background supporting the principals. Most theater goers could care less who they are or what they’ve done or where they trained. Theater goers buy tickets to see shows and the principal performers. Any ensemble member thinking they deserve the same level of credit as a principal performer needs to rethink their careers and re-access things. Otherwise, they will live a life full of bitterness and resentment. These are rules of the game. Always has been. Does it suck? Absolutely. But it’s been this way before you decided on becoming a performer and will continue to be this way. If you wanna play the game, you need to learn how to play it. If you want to be in the spotlight, put yourself in there. That’s how performers move out of the ensemble and become principal performers. Every former dancer-turned-actor was once a chorus/ensemble member.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 9:51am

The unfortunate part is that years from now, it will be known as the original cast of Hamilton, and all of this will have gone away. 

I also wonder that if this was the a filmed version of another show if there would be this conversation, or in this political climate would it have the same traction. 

[GreasedLightning]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 10:12am

Who’s Betsy Struxness?

(I kid, but come on... this is silly.)

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 10:16am

GreasedLightning said: "Who’s Betsy Struxness?

(I kid, but come on... this is silly.) "

We’re ALL after her best interest.   Even though she’s oblivious to this thread right now.  Hahaha.  

[schubox]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 10:29am

fashionguru_23 said: "The unfortunate part is that years from now, it will be known as the original cast of Hamilton, and all of this will have gone away.

I also wonder that if this was the a filmed version of another show if there would be this conversation, or in this political climate would it have the same traction."

She immediately came out and started the whole thing. I don't think the fact that it's Hamilton is why it started, but probably why it got so big. 

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 2:24pm

This thread is disgusting. That is all.One *should* expect more of people that manage to find their way to a theatre message board, go through the bother of joining and posting, but here we are.

[batboysings]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 2:34pm

Heavens to Betsy!

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 2:47pm

She (not a leading or even supporting character) left the show and was not in the recording, but is still getting the payment for originating the track, per the agreement, yes?

She made public statements saying that her unhappiness is what led to her eventual departure from the show, yes?

They fixed it from “Original Broadway Cast” to “Original Broadway Production”, yes?

What exactly is the issue anymore. While the ensemble is extremely important, they’re not erasing her from the show’s history (fans, Ham4Ham footage, etc) have cemented her part in the creation of the show. So people are upset that....they didn’t ask an ensemble member to return for filming? Truly asking if this is the issue currently being raised.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 3:08pm

IDGI. She wasn't happy doing the show and left on her own accord. She's getting residual royalties that the OBC gets. She doesn't get the film royalties because she had departed the show by the time of the film. Did she expect that they'd ask her back for the film? 

ETA: she's been posting lots of shots of Hamilton and seems excited and happy about the film.

Updated On: 7/6/20 at 03:08 PM

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 3:46pm

Which leads me to believe the only reason this is still a topic is due to overzealous fans who think getting involved in people’s personal affairs is a hobby.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 3:47pm

Only being a member of the audience, I have to admit that I see a huge difference between Groff and Ms. Struckness.  As people have already said, Groff had name recognition, was nominated for a Tony, and was very popular in the role, based on my internal applause meter.  Other than Thayne J, who had his moment to solo in Farmer Refuted, I really couldn't distinguish between members of the ensemble, despite the fact that they worked their asses off.  (Before criticizing me, isn't that a key driver behind A Chorus Line).

I just don't see a basis for comparison.  

Further, virtually everything Groff does is solo work. whereas Ms. Struckness had to re-integrate into an incredibly tight ensemble.  I would imagine, based only on logic rather than fact, that it was also easier to reintroduce him into the show.

I also have no idea if there were any bridges burned as she exited, since -- by her own admission -- she was tired and not always in a good mood.

Finally, I personally thought Rory O'Malley was lousy as George, whereas Groff was perfection. 

No contest for me, as only a member of the audience.

 

Updated On: 7/6/20 at 03:47 PM

[schubox]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 4:09pm

poisonivy2 said: "IDGI. She wasn't happy doing the show and left on her own accord. She's getting residual royalties that the OBC gets. She doesn't get the film royalties because she had departed the show by the time of the film. Did she expect that they'd ask her back for the film?

ETA: she's been posting lots of shots of Hamilton and seems excited and happy about the film."

I think she was upset they were calling it the Original Broadway Cast, which it wasn't.

[schubox]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 4:11pm

Jarethan said: "Only being a member of the audience, I have to admit that I see a huge difference between Groff and Ms. Struckness. As people have already said, Groff had name recognition, was nominated for a Tony, and was very popular in the role, based on my internal applause meter. Other than Thayne J,who had his moment to solo in Farmer Refuted, I really couldn't distinguish between members of the ensemble, despite the fact that they worked their asses off. (Before criticizing me, isn't that a key driverbehind A Chorus Line).

I just don't see a basis for comparison.

Further, virtually everything Groff does is solo work. whereas Ms. Struckness had to re-integrateinto an incredibly tight ensemble. I would imagine, based only on logic rather than fact, that it was also easier to reintroduce him into the show.

I also have no idea if there were any bridges burned as she exited, since -- by her own admission -- she was tired and not always in a good mood.

Finally, I personally thought Rory O'Malley was lousy as George, whereas Groff was perfection.

No contest for me, as only a member of the audience.

"

I don't see how anyone other than King George could come in with such short notice 

[(Insert Clever Name)]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 5:27pm

a) Javier literally once tweeted he originated the role of hamilton in hamilton so he has something else going on

b) groff, a lead in a speaking/singing role is very different than struxness in an ensemble role

c) she left the show on her own accord, she has a right to say it’s not the OBC but it isn’t being marketed that way anymore so this discussion is kind of frivolous

d) being totally honest, she was part of a huge ensemble, she mattered but i doubt it is noticeable to 99.999% of viewers, much less a huge disservice to the film

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 7:38pm

I saw Hamilton in November 2015 and again March 2016. Betsy had already departed the show by my second visit, and I noticed immediately that she was gone once the show started. She certainly made an impression on me the first time I saw it. She's a beautiful dancer with wonderful stage presence.

In my Playbill she's listed as an Angelica understudy. Did she ever go on?

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 7:38pm

I saw Hamilton in November 2015 and again March 2016. Betsy had already departed the show by my second visit, and I noticed immediately that she was gone once the show started. She certainly made an impression on me the first time I saw it. She's a beautiful dancer with wonderful stage presence.

In my Playbill she's listed as an Angelica understudy. Did she ever go on?

[Jarethan]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 11:33pm

schubox said: "Jarethan said: "Only being a member of the audience, I have to admit that I see a huge difference between Groff and Ms. Struckness. As people have already said, Groff had name recognition, was nominated for a Tony, and was very popular in the role, based on my internal applause meter. Other than Thayne J,who had his moment to solo in Farmer Refuted, I really couldn't distinguish between members of the ensemble, despite the fact that they worked their asses off. (Before criticizing me, isn't that a key driverbehind A Chorus Line).

Finally, I personally thought Rory O'Malley was lousy as George, whereas Groff was perfection.

No contest for me, as only a member of the audience.


I don't see how anyone other than King George could come in with such short notice"

 

Right on target.  Reflecting on it, I absolutely agree with you.