Patti LuPone called a privileged, racially microaggressive bully by Hell's Kitchen cast member - Page 6

[SeanD2]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 1:22pm

binau said: "Genuine question for those in the US - is what we are seeing in this thread a common occurrence or is it unusual? I’m shocked at where this has gone!"

Sadly pretty common in this day and age

[Kad]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 1:23pm

Frankly, because of incidents like this, I’m surprised more producers aren’t stricter with how performers post on social media while they are on contract. And I think there needs to be more social media training in the industry overall.

Lewis doesn’t deserve attacks, but this blowing up and attracting the worst element was an entirely predictable outcome that puts people’s safety and well-being in jeopardy and thrusts the production into an uncomfortable spotlight at a volatile time. It’s not about being right or wrong, it’s about the fact that performers are de facto representatives of a business. 

[somecheapfrenchthing]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 1:27pm

binau said: "Genuine question for those in the US - is what we are seeing in this thread a common occurrence or is it unusual? I’m shocked at where this has gone!"

Yes, especially on the internet and on social media where it's easier to unleash. I'm sure we could all write paragraphs on it and while it's super amplified right now it's nothing entirely "new" - nuance, ambiguity, complexity feeling scary/threatening and bringing up unpleasant feelings for people... a wanting for all things to be clear-cut and easily categorizable. It's frustrating and also at the same time weirdly understandable (not to say it's right or desireable). But all to say, yes, what you are seeing in this thread is a common occurrence right now. 

 

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 01:27 PM

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 1:31pm

Kad said: "Frankly, because of incidents like this, I’m surprised more producers aren’t stricter with how performers post on social media while they are on contract. And I think there needs to be more social media training in the industry overall.”


She made it crystal clear at the beginning of her video that this was her own statement and not the production’s... makes me wonder if she spoke to anyone involved in the production before posting it.
 

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 01:31 PM

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 1:31pm

I mean, the political climate is obviously extremely tense in the US right now, and I'm sure that's part of it. I think it also struck a particular nerve because we just had the whole Cynthia Erivo Wicked poster drama, which harkens back to the Great Comet drama (which btw Kecia Lewis was also involved in). I think it's maybe reaching a boiling point where people are just tired of the way public call-outs are being deployed. They're often used for minor incidents, don't create any productive resolution, and are often actively counterproductive (ie. putting the very diverse Great Comet cast out of work sooner than they would have been).
Kecia can handle this however she wants. I just wish she wouldn't cloak it in platitudes of "calling in" or "community" or "accountability". Because the way she's handled this has pretty much ensured none of those things will happen. 
 

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:05pm

CreatureKitchen said: "Any nuance that could’ve existed is lost "

This.

This is what happens when race is brought into an issue that should've never been, because it never was. 

And now there will never be agreement. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:15pm

What bothers me so much about this situation is that because race has been implicated in something that so clearly and objectively was nothing to do with race, things that deserve our attention through that lens don't get it. It's like crying wolf. We've all sat in a theater on 44th or 45th street and heard noise bleed. We know it is a real thing that happens. I forget what show it was, but the tenant in the Golden even said something about hearing Patti's Ladies Who Lunch through the walls when she was next door at the Jacobs. This is truly all to do about nothing and making Patti out to be a racist in this context is so beyond and unserious. But that's the narrative people are running with.

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:26pm

OhHiii said: "This is truly all to do about nothing and making Patti out to be a racist in this context is so beyond and unserious. But that's the narrative people are running with."

Fortunately, outside of Kecia's bubble, I think a lot of people are not running with that narrative. There's a massive Reddit thread about this where pretty much everyone seems in agreement this got blown out of proportion. And Playbill just posted an article and the comment section seems...relatively reasonable: https://www.facebook.com/Playbill/posts/pfbid0ThwmJLSMTwLwAbwg6RvR8ro1DiuZFqeSYSf778u1tG1FNZdquAAmEFc7YvPN5sbLl

 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:28pm

Not since Cynthia Erivo…

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:32pm

I am not on X or Instagram. I have popped over to Ms. Lewis' facebook page to read reactions. My question is, have any other cast or production members come out in support of her? I read one cast member shared her video. Just curious.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:46pm

binau said: "Genuine question for those in the US - is what we are seeing in this thread a common occurrence or is it unusual? I’m shocked at where this has gone!"

One can view this situation through so many different lenses to decide what you make of it: appropriateness, hierarchy, star power, race, gender, Patti's reputation, et al.

People are looking at the same situation through different lenses and filters, reaching different conclusions as a result, and talking past each other. While I don't think that is unique to the US right now, tone could probably make a case that the frequency with which it happens and the steadfastness with which people defend their takes is on the rise.

[OhHiii]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:47pm

I imagine the cast doesn't want this kind of attention on the show at all and very possibly could be frustrated by it. It has implications that aren't just a short term impact, this can alienate swaths of audiences too. For any number of reasons. See: the whole 1776 debacle which somehow Patti was ALSO brought up in without having anything to do with it lol.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:50pm

HeyMrMusic said: "Not saying this hasn’t blown out of proportion, but flippantly saying or implying that Black people are too loud in the way Patti did to that fan IS a microaggression. We also don’t know how the change in sound design affected or compromised the performances ofHell’s Kitchenand how those changes had to be implemented by cast, crew, and band."

Finally someone with critical thinking skills on this board. Thank goodness. 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:54pm

TotallyEffed said: "OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Y'all telling Black how to respond is insane and wild. All of these comments continue to not only not accept but bend over backwards to find an excuse for her. You don't even have to accept but again to disregard Black folks who tell you IT IS a microaggression is sad AF."



The issue with this argument is that you're telling everyone else how to respond. You're telling Patti how to respond. It can't work both ways. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions."

No actually everyone isn't entitled to their opinions. Case in point: all you white people on this board can't make space or sense of Kecia's feelings. They don't matter to you and you attempt to police HOW she expresses them. Maybe Kecia went to the powers that be and was ignored. 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:59pm

OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Y'all telling Black how to respond is insane and wild. All of these comments continue to not only not accept but bend over backwards to find an excuse for her. You don't even have to accept but again to disregard Black folks who tell you IT IS a microaggression is sad AF."

There's a huge difference between telling someone how to respond and calling someone out for slandering someone incorrectly.

No one is saying that Ms. Lewis doesn't have the right to have been offended by Ms. Lupone's actions or to disagree with how her producing team handled it or to even express that it hurt her that her show was changed. Those are all completely fine reactions and no one should tell her how she should feel otherwise. 

But what is not okay is publicly making accusations of racism towards someone because you didn't like the way they handled a situation that has nothing to do with race. Even if you feel personally that there was some level of racist intent behind it, Ms. Lupone's actions in no way implied that and calling them (and her) racist is 100% slander and 100% not okay. If she wanted to express this privately to Patti that she felt that way? Completely fine. But the minute you go online and start tossing around accusations that you damage someone's livelihood, you absolutely deserve to be called out for it if it's something that was clearly misinterpreted and blown out of proportion by you. Ms. Lewis can feel however she wants to feel about the situation. But that doesn't mean she has the right to put someone on blast just because she feels a certain way. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:59pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "TotallyEffed said: "OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Y'all telling Black how to respond is insane and wild. All of these comments continue to not only not accept but bend over backwards to find an excuse for her. You don't even have to accept but again to disregard Black folks who tell you IT IS a microaggression is sad AF."

The issue with this argument is that you're telling everyone else how to respond. You're telling Patti how to respond. It can't work both ways. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions."

No actually everyone isn't entitled to their opinions. Case in point: all you white people on this board can't make space or sense ofKecia's feelings. They don't matter to you and you attempt to police HOW she expresses them. Maybe Kecia went to the powers that be and was ignored."

Actually, everyone is looking at this through a critical lens and coming to a different conclusion than you. But I'll say one thing, assuming that all of those of us saying this is overblown are white is absolutely wild given all you know about any of us is a screen name. Hurling accusations that are not appropriate to the situation is the problem here and you just provided another example.

[OharaFosseWolfe888]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:16pm

OhHiii said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "TotallyEffed said: "OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Y'all telling Black how to respond is insane and wild. All of these comments continue to not only not accept but bend over backwards to find an excuse for her. You don't even have to accept but again to disregard Black folks who tell you IT IS a microaggression is sad AF."

The issue with this argument is that you're telling everyone else how to respond. You're telling Patti how to respond. It can't work both ways. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions."

No actually everyone isn't entitled to their opinions. Case in point: all you white people on this board can't make space or sense ofKecia's feelings. They don't matter to you and you attempt to police HOW she expresses them. Maybe Kecia went to the powers that be and was ignored."

Actually, everyone is looking at this through a critical lens and coming to a different conclusion than you. But I'll say one thing, assuming that all of those of us saying this is overblown are white is absolutely wild given all you know about any of us is a screen name. Hurling accusations that are not appropriate to the situation is the problem here and you just provided another example."

I have deeply agreed with what Ensemble1698878795 has said. I would also make the assumption most people on this board are white, by how they respond. I would also say this board is mostly cis white gay men. That's not a unfathomable assumption either. The point is, most have commented are mad at Kecia for going to social media and making this public and calling Patti a racist, which she did not. Regardless of race, most on this board do not want to hold the possibility that it was a microaggression. Every time a non seemingly Black person says....that is a microaggression no one responds to them. Because you don't WANT to understand. You would rather sit in your privilege of your POV than listening to actual Black people who have those experiences. Again, disheartening and sad. 

[Claudia Draper]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:17pm

What does Cynthia Erivo say?  

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:18pm

Broadway61004 said: "OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Y'all telling Black how to respond is insane and wild. All of these comments continue to not only not accept but bend over backwards to find an excuse for her. You don't even have to accept but again to disregard Black folks who tell you IT IS a microaggression is sad AF."

There's a huge difference between telling someone how to respond and calling someone out for slandering someone incorrectly.

No one is saying that Ms. Lewis doesn't have the right to have been offended by Ms. Lupone's actions or to disagree with how her producing team handled it or to even express that it hurt her that her show was changed. Those are all completely fine reactions and no one should tell her how she should feel otherwise.

But what is not okay is publicly making accusations of racism towards someone because you didn't like the way they handled a situation that has nothing to do with race. Even if you feel personally that there was some level of racist intent behind it, Ms. Lupone's actions in no way implied that and calling them (and her) racist is 100% slander and 100% not okay. If she wanted to express this privately to Patti that she felt that way? Completely fine. But the minute you go online and start tossing around accusations that you damage someone's livelihood, you absolutely deserve to be called out for it if it's something that was clearly misinterpreted and blown out of proportion by you. Ms. Lewis can feel however she wants to feel about the situation. But that doesn't mean she has the right to put someone on blast just because she feels a certain way."

The POC inside the situation gets to decide if they feel the actions towards them were racially charged, not the comments section. Racism is going around telling POC that their experiences "aren't racially based." It's very clear how ignorant some of you are to the fullness of how this works. You're constantly perpetuating the very behavior you're denying. 

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:18pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "HeyMrMusic said: "Not saying this hasn’t blown out of proportion, but flippantly saying or implying that Black people are too loud in the way Patti did to that fan IS a microaggression. We also don’t know how the change in sound design affected or compromised the performances ofHell’s Kitchenand how those changes had to be implemented by cast, crew, and band."

Oh please, we all know that the "they" she was referring to was the show itself.  We in the business always refer to other shows as "they".  And the words "Black people" never came out of her mouth. Not one thing implying race came out of her mouth. You all are putting it there. Try again.

 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:19pm

OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "OhHiii said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "TotallyEffed said: "OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Y'all telling Black how to respond is insane and wild. All of these comments continue to not only not accept but bend over backwards to find an excuse for her. You don't even have to accept but again to disregard Black folks who tell you IT IS a microaggression is sad AF."

The issue with this argument is that you're telling everyone else how to respond. You're telling Patti how to respond. It can't work both ways. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions."

No actually everyone isn't entitled to their opinions. Case in point: all you white people on this board can't make space or sense ofKecia's feelings. They don't matter to you and you attempt to police HOW she expresses them. Maybe Kecia went to the powers that be and was ignored."

Actually, everyone is looking at this through a critical lens and coming to a different conclusion than you. But I'll say one thing, assuming that all of those of us saying this is overblown are white is absolutely wild given all you know about any of us is a screen name. Hurling accusations that are not appropriate to the situation is the problem here and you just provided another example."

I have deeply agreed with whatEnsemble1698878795 has said. I would also make the assumption most people on this board are white, by how they respond. I would also say this board is mostly cis white gay men. That's not a unfathomable assumption either. The point is, most have commented are mad at Kecia for going to social media and making this public and calling Patti a racist, which she did not. Regardless of race, most on this board do not want to hold the possibility that it was a microaggression. Every time a non seemingly Black person says....that is a microaggression no one responds to them. Because you don't WANT to understand. You would rather sit in your privilege of your POV than listening to actual Black people who have those experiences. Again, disheartening and sad."

Boom Kat. You said what they don't wanna hear. 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:22pm

OhHiii said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "TotallyEffed said: "OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Y'all telling Black how to respond is insane and wild. All of these comments continue to not only not accept but bend over backwards to find an excuse for her. You don't even have to accept but again to disregard Black folks who tell you IT IS a microaggression is sad AF."

The issue with this argument is that you're telling everyone else how to respond. You're telling Patti how to respond. It can't work both ways. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions."

No actually everyone isn't entitled to their opinions. Case in point: all you white people on this board can't make space or sense ofKecia's feelings. They don't matter to you and you attempt to police HOW she expresses them. Maybe Kecia went to the powers that be and was ignored."

Actually, everyone is looking at this through a critical lens and coming to a different conclusion than you. But I'll say one thing, assuming that all of those of us saying this is overblown are white is absolutely wild given all you know about any of us is a screen name. Hurling accusations that are not appropriate to the situation is the problem here and you just provided another example."

You cannot be white and mentally align with whiteness. So that clears that up. 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:25pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "The POC inside the situation gets to decide if they feel the actions towards themwere racially charged, not the comments section. Racism is going around telling POC that their experiences "aren't racially based." It's very clear how ignorant some of you are to the fullness of how this works. You're constantly perpetuating the very behavior you're denying."

The people (POC or not is irrelevant) absolutely get to decide how they FEEL about the situation. That does not give them the right to make defamatory statements about others regardless of how they feel.

Not sure what you're not comprehending here. No one is arguing that someone can't feel a certain way. 

[jpbran]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:27pm

Racism and racially-tinged micro-aggressions come in many different forms. Obviously. Requests regarding sound-bleed seem to be a stretch tho. As someone else said, I'd imagine LuPone (who I love but also find exhausting) would have said the same had the extremely LOUD and extremely "white-boy"-centered "American Idiot" been next door to her quiet two-hander. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[binau]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:27pm

It’s amazing to witness the division between groups of people that are meant to be on the same side. Incredible and jaw dropping. I still haven’t had any clear response to these questions by the way:

1. do you think if Audra was in a one woman play at the booth that Hell’s Kitchen wouldn’t accomodate her ?

2. Why is everyone focussed on Patti when the producers made clear it’s a range of people, including the audience 

And I’ll add a third 

3. if American idiot was at the Schubert right now do you believe that Patti also wouldn’t describe the show as loud or her production team not ask to turn it down (assuming that it was as loud as Hell’s Kitchen. From the reports here it’s the loudest broadway show I’ve ever heard of - I’ve never heard these kind of reports in other shows)