Patti LuPone called a privileged, racially microaggressive bully by Hell's Kitchen cast member - Page 4

[RJ14]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:49am

privileged? yes, maybe. but bringing the race card and calling someone racist and racially microaggressive over this ?? that's a reach and a bullying act itself.

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 2:55am

Ohara, if you feel the need to reply to all of these comments in a row, at least do it in a single comment. And maybe don’t immediately upvote all your own comments.

You said yourself Patti would have treated any other loud show the same. If any show was bleeding into the theatre she was performing in (as multiple audience members have confirmed Hell’s Kitchen was) she would have asked for it to be addressed. And clearly the crew at Hell’s Kitchen thought the request was reasonable or they wouldn’t have done it. As The Roommate’s producers said, this type of adjustment is not uncommon, which has also been confirmed by others in the industry.

Also, there’s no evidence Patti repeatedly called the show loud. She made one comment to the person trying to get her to sign a Hell’s Kitchen playbill. We don’t know how she communicated her concerns about the sound bleeding, or if that communication even came from her directly or indirectly through someone else. But it really doesn’t seem like anything abnormal happened here. 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:12am

RJ14 said: "privileged? yes, maybe. but bringing the race card and callingsomeone racist and racially microaggressive over this ?? that's a reach and a bullying act itself."

Please tell me you understand how privilege works. White privilege is the ability to have another show adjust their entire sound system for your preferences MONTHS after the show has been open. This is a white privilege because it is highly doubtful the same treatment and demand would be afforded to an actress of color. White privilege is every Broadway theater being owned by white people and their tastes deciding what shows get houses and don't. I could go on and on. White privilege doesn't mean you've automatically done something wrong. But being white can make you "unassuming", harmless, safe, etc. And some people use that positioning to their advantage when they realize its sneaky power. Patti is one of those people. And her silence proves my point.  

 

[binau]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:33am

I genuinely think if Audra was doing Gypsy or a one-woman Hamlet or something at the booth that Hell's Kitchen would also be accommodating. I don't really buy what you're saying. Also, did you read the show statement? They are trying to make it clear that it isn't just Patti who is affected but also audiences, come on. I agree with you that there probably is a certain white privilege about theatre ownership and deciding what shows go on or not (although I would also say Broadway is one of the most inclusive art forms there is frequently shows starring and sometimes written by black people, and the same is not true of all minority groups). But this is a separate discussion and not relevant to the topic at hand.

The show release confirmed exactly what was expected - Hell's Kitchen is a loud amplified show (the idea people are given warnings about sitting in the first two rows is also telling) sharing a wall with a quiet 2 person play and they are trying to find ways for both to accommodate each space. I don't think race is a factor. The only privilege I can think of Patti having is her stardom (and Mia's) influencing. But as I said switch Patti for Audra and I think the same thing would happen.

It is counterproductive to insert race into every conversation where it is not relevant because you're going to lose the trust and faith of people that when race is brought into the conversation that is relevant. We need to be selective on this, otherwise when the next incident of genuine racial micro aggression occurs people won't believe it. I think it's hurting the cause.

 

 

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 03:33 AM

[OharaFosseWolfe888]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 3:57am

CreatureKitchen said: "Ohara, if you feel the need to reply to all of these comments in a row, at least do it in a single comment. And maybe don’t immediately upvote all your own comments.

You said yourself Patti would have treated any other loud show the same. Ifanyshow was bleeding into the theatre she was performing in (as multiple audience members have confirmed Hell’s Kitchen was) she would have asked for it to be addressed. And clearly the crew at Hell’s Kitchen thought the request was reasonable or they wouldn’t have done it. As The Roommate’s producers said, this type of adjustment is not uncommon, which has also been confirmed by others in the industry.

Also, there’s no evidence Patti repeatedly called the show loud. She made one comment to the person trying to get her to sign a Hell’s Kitchen playbill. We don’t know how she communicated her concerns about the sound bleeding, or if that communication even came from her directly or indirectly through someone else. But it really doesn’t seem like anything abnormal happened here."

Are there BWW message board rules? Or is the way I responded just personally annoying to you and not your preference? Also I didn't like my own comment, deeply presumptive. Why are you policing how I respond on this thread? 

That's not the only reason HK would have said okay to the request. Plethora of reasons, I don't even want to get into them because I'll just be explaining racial dynamics between HK and THEE Patti LuPone. Of course they acquiesced. "As the producers said"....I think you don't fully understand the role of a producer if you take everything they say as truth. The statement is trying to smooth things over and it's a decent one but it is still a producer's statement to ensure that TR doesn't "look bad" publicly. I for one, would argue it's not a very common thing at all after a show has been open for months. I know of at least 4 sound designers who work on Broadway who had never heard of such a thing. Confirmed by some, cool doesn't mean it is common though. 

Just say YOU don't know how she communicated her concerns. Lol, trust me it was more than just the "TOO LOUD" caught on video. (She coulda just said, that's not my show and kept it pushing) Also if we didn't have that footage half the people wouldn't even believe that. Come on, you really think they might have come "indirectly from someone else"? Why are you doing backflips to defend her? No matter what she more than likely isn't going to apologize (I think we would all be surprised if that happened), she isn't going to get fired or even cancelled, she was just put on notice for unchecked, probably unconscious racially bias language and behavior. That was her first mistake, she moved like she normally does but it's a new day and Black folks are tired. From a 75yr old white theatre diva that is not a shock in 2024. 

 

 

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 03:57 AM

[OharaFosseWolfe888]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 4:10am

It is counterproductive to insert race into every conversation where it is not relevant because you're going to lose the trust and faith of people that when race is brought into the conversation that is relevant. We need to be selective on this, otherwise when the next incident of genuine racial micro aggression occurs people won't believe it. I think it's hurting the cause.

I'm not afraid of inserting race into a conversation when it is relevant, and i'm not concerned about losing trust and faith of white people "who might not believe it next time". This IS the work. Neither is Kecia, otherwise she wouldn't have made the post.  It's like y'all don't want to actually hear us and learn but just push back and dictate what is and isn't racist or a microaggression or white privilege. White people **** up sometimes, doesn't mean they are racist or bad people..but the lack of accountability, the excuses, and the need to downplay, is deeply disheartening. Hurting the cause? Cause somebody called out Patti LuPone girlll please! 

[binau]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 4:36am

Can you please respond directly to these points

1. are you suggesting that if Audra was doing a one woman play in the booth next to Hell’s Kitchen they wouldn’t try and reasonably accomodate?

2. Why do you keep focussing on Patti lupone when the press statement made clear it was a range of people being affected, including audiences.

There is a difference between calling Patti lupone out for being an ass and calling Patti lupone out for being a racist. I still fail to see how race has anything to do with the situation. 

[ManOfLaMuncha]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 5:26am

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-14036969/patti-lupone-accused-bullying-racial-comments-broadway.html

 

Now it's in the Daily Mail?

[GottaGetAGimmick420]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 6:43am

ManOfLaMuncha said: "https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-14036969/patti-lupone-accused-bullying-racial-comments-broadway.html



Now it's in the Daily Mail?"

Before I didn’t think Kecia needed to issue an apology. Now, I do. Even if it’s private. 

[gibsons2]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 7:28am

GottaGetAGimmick420 said: "ManOfLaMuncha said: "https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-14036969/patti-lupone-accused-bullying-racial-comments-broadway.html



Now it's in the Daily Mail?"

Before I didn’t think Kecia needed to issue an apology. Now, I do. Even if it’s private."

Someone should also present her with The Roommate playbill with Patti's mug on it to sign. Cynthia Erivo moment for sure.

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 07:28 AM

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 7:47am

Also, I heard Patti had nothing to do with having the sound cues fixed. Yes, she was one of the many who had issues but Kecia is erroneously attaching her to all of this simply because she sent flowers and that silly and meaningless sarcastic stage door comment about not signing the Playbill.  Thank God she didn’t say “those people next door.” 

[Bwaygurl2]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 7:57am

Kecia Lewis has done the impossible: make Patti the sympathetic party in a dispute. 

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 8:20am

…we’re still talking about sounds cues, yeah? Patti didn’t demand the entire score and vocal arrangements be changed, as far as I can tell.

I hope the next time Patti uses her Big Bad Wolf privilege, it’s to eradicate pedicabs from the theatre district.

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 08:20 AM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 8:34am

This is such a complete non-issue and non-story. Just a bad look for all involved. Very much a Great Comet moment again.

[somecheapfrenchthing]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 8:41am

OharaFosseWolfe888 said: 

I'm not afraid of inserting race into a conversation when it is relevant, and i'm not concerned about losing trust and faith of white people "who might not believe it next time". This IS the work. Neither is Kecia, otherwise she wouldn't have made the post. It's like y'all don't want to actually hear us and learn but just push back and dictate what is and isn't racistor a microaggression or white privilege. White people **** up sometimes, doesn't mean they are racist or bad people..but the lack of accountability, the excuses, and the need to downplay, is deeply disheartening. Hurting the cause? Cause somebody called out Patti LuPone girlll please!"

 

All of the semantics and misdirection… it’s so frustrating. Kecia Lewis can feel, think, and say whatever she wants. I certainly don’t think anyone is claiming “white people don’t mess up” - and I struggle to find that message even implied anywhere. I don’t see how listening to her side of this story, assessing the situation/synthesizing everything, and then having a less-than-positive reaction to her approach is “dictating” anything or “policing” her as someone said earlier. I see her being treated very fairly, the way anyone else would in this same situation - subject to understanding, misunderstanding, agreement, disagreement etc. Can you not imagine that some people care very much about the topics she raises AND, after taking the time to take everything in, see something concerning? I agree that everyone can benefit from stepping back and listening, but this whole idea of “You don’t get to decide what Xx means” is just illusory and impossible. You cannot extricate a living being from their vantage point. We cannot “turn off” perception. Ultimately, even if one chooses to agree with a definition or perspective that is taught or explained by another with lived experience, one is still taking in that information and then deciding/defining/feeling for *oneself.* This is inherent and essential to being separate, embodied people. And anyone who claims to have freed themselves of “defining” based on their own perceptions is in denial about being human, or at least scared of backlash for being in reality. 

 

 

 

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 08:41 AM

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 8:53am

So many first world problems! 

[quizking101]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 8:59am

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "I hope the next time Patti uses her Big Bad Wolf privilege, it’s to eradicate pedicabs from the theatre district."

If she accomplished this, I would be elated.

I wish there was a law that banned those before 11pm near theatres.

 

[Jumpin_J]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 9:04am

A friend of mine saw Hell's Kitchen yesterday. She said the volume was so loud that she nearly left. She felt the amplification in her bones. One can choose to believe Lapone's position or not, but when a friend of mine says it's too loud, I believe them. Louder does not equate to better. In fact, loudness can be used to cover flaws. I'll say it again. I have no issue if OSHA regulated decibel volumes in all theaters to protect the audience, actors, and musicians.

[Producer2]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 9:16am

LuPone is beastly, not a nice woman.  That's from personal experience.

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 09:16 AM

[VotePeron]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:02am

Was waiting to see if this would make it into today’s Broadway Briefing. It did not. 

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:24am

So, at this point I’ve seen Patti be called a witch, an old hag, hysterical, and now “beastly” over this situation. Amazing how quickly these (primarily gendered) insults come out when they’re supposedly in the name of “social justice”.

At this point, this situation really isn’t about Patti’s behavior at all. There was a point where it was—Kecia does genuinely make some good points (Patti absolutely shouldn’t have said anything about Hell’s Kitchen to that fan), and there maybe could have been a discussion to ease tensions and help both parties see eye to eye.

But, the way this has been blasted through the community publicly has caused a huge amount of division. And now it’s been picked up as sensationalist tabloid slop (which anyone could have predicted when she posted it on Insta). Any nuance that could’ve existed is lost—I’ve seen comments on some of these articles comparing Kecia to a gorilla or laughing about “the left eating their own”. This is just really ugly.

I wish there was a path to some kind of accountability and community building, but that door seems to be shut with how absolutely off the rail this has gotten. 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:40am

I think anxiety around the election is definitely influencing this (including Lewis' decision to make the video). Let's pray to God that Harris wins and that everyone can then take a collective breath.

[gibsons2]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:47am

CreatureKitchen said: "So, at this point I’ve seen Patti be called a witch, an old hag, hysterical, and now “beastly” over this situation. Amazing how quickly these (primarily gendered) insults come out when they’re supposedly in the name of “social justice”.

At this point, this situation really isn’t about Patti’s behavior at all. There was a point where it was—Kecia does genuinely make some good points (Patti absolutely shouldn’t have said anything about Hell’s Kitchen to that fan), and there maybe could have been a discussion to ease tensions and help both parties see eye to eye.

But, the way this has been blasted through the community publicly has caused a huge amount of division. And now it’s been picked up as sensationalist tabloid slop (which anyone could have predicted when she posted it on Insta). Any nuance that could’ve existedis lost—I’ve seen comments on some of these articles comparing Kecia to a gorilla or laughing about “the left eating their own”. This is just really ugly.

I wish there was a path to some kind of accountability and community building, but that door seems to be shut with how absolutely off the rail this has gotten."

Agreed. Patti became a punching bag for people who just waited for their opportunity to exercise horrible, over the top disgusting misogyny. "Social justice" warriors tend to overstep that thin line often and wind up on the same side as the most unhinged right wingers. 

I can guarantee if Booth had a small quiet straight play with all black cast and a show like Wicked or any other big loud musical with predominantly white cast impeded the experience of their audience or cast, accusations of racism would be thrown left and right. Noise pollution is already severe enough in the city, audiences are required to pay outrageous ticket prices. Not ruining the experience of a small play audience is the least a big successful musical could do.

Updated On: 11/4/24 at 10:47 AM

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 10:57am

gibsons2 said: "CreatureKitchen said: "So, at this point I’ve seen Patti be called a witch, an old hag, hysterical, and now “beastly” over this situation. Amazing how quickly these (primarily gendered) insults come out when they’re supposedly in the name of “social justice”.

At this point, this situation really isn’t about Patti’s behavior at all. There was a point where it was—Kecia does genuinely make some good points (Patti absolutely shouldn’t have said anything about Hell’s Kitchen to that fan), and there maybe could have been a discussion to ease tensions and help both parties see eye to eye.

But, the way this has been blasted through the community publicly has caused a huge amount of division. And now it’s been picked up as sensationalist tabloid slop (which anyone could have predicted when she posted it on Insta). Any nuance that could’ve existedis lost—I’ve seen comments on some of these articles comparing Kecia to a gorilla or laughing about “the left eating their own”. This is just really ugly.

I wish there was a path to some kind of accountability and community building, but that door seems to be shut with how absolutely off the rail this has gotten."

Agreed. Patti became a punching bag for people who just waited for their opportunity to exercise horrible, over the top disgusting misogyny. "Social justice" warriors tend to overstep that thin line often and wind up on the same side as the most unhinged right wingers.

I can guarantee if Booth had a small quiet straight play with all black cast and a show like Wicked or any other big loud musical with predominantly white cast impeded the experience of their audience or cast, accusations of racism would be thrown left and right. Noise pollution is already severe enough in the city, audiences are required to pay outrageous ticket prices. Not ruining the experience of a small play audience is the least a big successful musical can do."

The whiteness on this board has elevated to pure delusion. It's giving Trump excuses and reasoning. I'm glad Kecia Lewis spoke up and think the heat on  Ms. LuPone is well earned. This was an opportunity for LuPone to strike up a response. To acknowledge the possible miscommunication "on both sides." To be an example for the "community." Instead, silence. The privilege to walk away. 

[gibsons2]

Posted: 11/4/24 at 11:09am

Ensemble1698878795 said: 
The whiteness on this board has elevated to puredelusion. It's giving Trump excuses and reasoning. I'm glad Kecia Lewis spoke up and think the heatonMs. LuPone is well earned. This was an opportunity for LuPone to strike up a response. To acknowledge the possible miscommunication "on both sides." To be an example for the "community." Instead, silence. The privilege to walk away."

Kecia Lewis had an opportunity to not post that video and instead privately address the issue directly with Patty, who she baselessly accused of racism, or with the theater management.