Phantom Closing?- Page 26

[PanaroFan111]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 6:30pm

As a big Ben fan, i do support and appreciate everyone's opinion of his performance and really enjoy reading the comments. I do agree when he came into the role what a dynamic voice and acting, he brought to the role, but yes ever since the show came back from Covid he hasn't been the same. 1st off hes missing a TON of Performances, no clue why maybe Hes a bit resentful of the show closing or maybe is pissed that Ramin is coming in to replace him in the final weeks (Just my Theory) lmao no need to fact check it my opinion only.
But yes its very noticable he aint the same Phantom, i hope he figures out the issue and starts bringing back his A game :) I got 5 more perfomances before April 16th and i hope to see a bounce back.

[defenses]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 8:33pm

It looks like mods probably removed the posts since there was audio, but I was able to catch it. I'm pretty sure he's sick. I saw him Wednesday night and Saturday matinee, and he was struggling Saturday (he was able to get through MotN but his AIAoY reprise was rough). He probably thought he could get through the night show since he got through the earlier one, especially since he has today and tomorrow off.

[PanaroFan111]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 8:37pm

I have no doubt, this the season for being sick but this has been a common discussion with the Phans, he hasn't been himself.

[defenses]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 8:47pm

PanaroFan111 said: "I have no doubt, this the season for being sick but this has been a common discussion with the Phans, he hasn't been himself."

Yes, I know. This has been discussed often (and I have mentioned it as well). I brought it up because the difference is going to be drastic in this case. I mean, he sounded different six hours earlier! A better comparison would be when he's healthy. He'll still sound different, but at least you'll get a true sense of the changes.

[poto19882023]

Posted: 2/19/23 at 8:51pm

Ugh yeah the post got removed for having the comparison audio clip - if you all have any suggestions for how to let folks find it without putting it here I’d appreciate it

 

And he could very well be sick, but I saw him back on February 7th, a Tuesday so it was after his extra Monday off, and he still sounded like this. Being sick also just doesn’t seem like enough to explain the total night and day difference between how he used to be and how he is now, in my opinion at least

[Listener]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 1:45am

All I've seen is a brief clip of him from the Final Lair where he seemed to walk around in a very contemporary way...confidently and with ego....not at all seeming like a broken man from another century making desperate threats.

I think someone online even likened Ben's vibe to that of a "dude-bro".

...is that how he comes off in the role, ultimately? Is his a performance out of step with the era and needs of the material?

I've seen Phantoms that didn't win my sympathy and it really affected the entire experience of seeing the show. I'd hope to see it again with an actor who makes me care for the character...

[Lot666]

Posted: 2/20/23 at 8:53am

Listener said: "I'd hope to see it again with an actor who makes me care for the character..."

Greg Mills

[poto19882023]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 8:58am

Listener said: "All I've seen is a brief clip of him from the Final Lair where he seemed to walk around in a very contemporary way...confidently and with ego....not at all seeming like a broken man from another century making desperate threats.

I think someone online even likened Ben's vibe to that of a "dude-bro".

...is that how he comes off in the role, ultimately? Is his a performance out of step with the era and needs of the material?

I've seen Phantoms that didn't win my sympathy and it really affected the entire experience of seeing the show. I'd hope to see it again with an actor who makes me care for the character..."

YES THANK YOU. THIS is the thing about the way he carries himself which was one of the major things that bothered me and I didn't know how to word it properly. Yes this is indeed something he does. He carries himself physically this way, and then occasionally throws in one of the theatrical hand motions, then its arms back down to his sides walking in that very modern, almost nonchalant way.

There's just a lot of problems with his performance that I just don't understand why they're happening. The more I listen to Ben's 2018 performances, the more shocking and disappointing these modern performances become. He had so much potential, vocally he had one of the best voices to take on the role in ages--no joke this man's voice was a dead ringer for Davis Gaines.

I actually did see Ben back in 2018. I wasn't quite impressed with his acting, but his voice definitely made up for it because it was such a throwback to old school Phantoms of the 1990s.

I seriously cannot fathom what happened. Listening to the reopening in October 2021, he was giving a vocal performance mostly comparable to his original performances. It seems to have started to degrade through 2022.

I had one theory about his voice, mainly regarding that really harsh and unpleasant nasally placement he's using for much of the score. If he had begun struggling with the role vocally perhaps he had to adjust his vocal technique to sing more 'forward' into 'the mask' to possibly reduce some of the strain of using his voice full-out. But I can't fathom any other reason why he'd make any of these changes knowingly or willingly.

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 11:57am

Was lucky enough by chance in 1988 to see the final performance of Sarah Brightman and Michael Crawford. Nearly 35 years later saw the show last night for the final time. Christine’s performance of “Wishing you” was the highlight of the night, while the show still holds up, Ben Crawford as the Phantom was sadly awful. He came across as a limp wristed man child. His acting and singing choices were bizarre to say the least. The Final Liar from his end was just weak. Glad I got to see the show one last time, was worth the trip from Australia. It’s sad he’s the Phantom they are ending on. 

[FANtomFollies]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 12:44pm

rosscoe(au) said: "He came across as...limp wristed"

What do you mean by this?

 

Updated On: 2/21/23 at 12:44 PM

[kylegfil_]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 2:11pm

rosscoe(au) said: "Was lucky enough by chance in 1988 to see the final performance of Sarah Brightman and Michael Crawford. Nearly 35 years later saw the show last night for the final time. Christine’s performance of “Wishing you” was the highlight of the night, while the show still holds up, Ben Crawford as the Phantom was sadly awful. He came across as a limp wristed man child. His acting and singing choices were bizarre to say the least. The Final Liar from his end was just weak. Glad I got to see the show one last time, was worth the trip from Australia. It’s sad he’s the Phantom they are ending on."

'Limp wristed' ....a comment you may want to clarify.

[defenses]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 2:18pm

rosscoe(au) said: "saw the show last night"

FYI, Jeremy Stolle was the Phantom on 2/20.

[Piparoo]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 2:23pm

With all of the mixed reactions to Ben, I’m kinda hoping that he’s out when I’m in town for the matinee on 3/25

[Lot666]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 3:27pm

Piparoo said: "With all of the mixed reactions to Ben, I’m kinda hoping that he’s out when I’m in town for the matinee on 3/25"

It's truly unfortunate, because he was quite impressive during his early years in the role. There was a time when I actually thought him the best Phantom I'd ever seen (and I have very high standards for this character). It wasn't until after the show reopened in October 2021 that he began to adopt the strange vocal mannerisms and pronunciations and his investment seemed to diminish.

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 5:14pm

defenses said: "rosscoe(au) said: "saw the show last night"

FYI, Jeremy Stolle was the Phantom on 2/20."

I do apologize then, but he was underwhelming. The playbill didn’t have a slip to say a cover was on. 

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 5:24pm

Phantom is unique with its Playbill because the show will post who's playing what role every week on the Cast page. For example, it might say that one actor is playing Firmin on Monday and Tuesday and another one is playing Firmin Wednesday-Saturday. Most shows don't do this.

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 2/21/23 at 6:07pm

I didn't have a slip in my Playbill the first two times I saw it this month either, even though there were definitely understudies on who weren't covered on the cast page. I definitely learned to pay attention to the board on the way in...and then the third time, I did get a slip. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Listener]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 3:06am

poto1988 - glad you felt my wording was apt, but everyone please keep in mind, I haven't seen Ben Crawford in person and was just going off what I saw in a brief video and also from comments online.

So now Jeremy Stolle was also underwhelming...?

That's two I guess. How many Phantom actors are there left to "choose" from? Just Greg Mills? Any others popping in?

...I have also been very particular about people's interpretations of the role, and sadly some widely-loved actors just left me cold when I saw them.

What's so tricky about this part is that there are many elements that make it work. Phantom has to have a terrific voice, but everyone's preferences on what that voice is can vary (see Michael Crawford vs Colm Wilkinson, etc). He has to be dangerous and threatening, but still sensual and charismatic and vulnerable, so his acting chops need to be good. And crucially, he and his Christine have to have chemistry, and considering how little time they actually have on stage together and what transpires in those scenes, it probably comes down to whatever they were able to develop during rehearsal (if they even had time for that) or whether or not they have a natural rapport, and know how to use their stage time effectively to sell the audience on a love (of sorts) existing between them.

...is it just me or did, at some point over the course of the decades, it start becoming more and more rare to see a Phantom and Christine who generated the kind of chemistry needed to sustain the show?

I'd chalk that up to cast changes, understudies having to pop in without much warning, lack of rehearsal/bonding time, or maybe a general distance on the part of Hal (who I know did visit every few months and give notes, but maybe wasn't shaping the performances at a certain point the way he did in earlier years)...but I'd say it's been an issue.

Sure, people love Ramin and Sierra, I know, but other than them...have there been great duos in the last ten or fifteen years on Broadway? It's not such a common thing for two actors to have that "it" factor that makes the largely uncomfortable relationship between the Phantom and Christine romantic and captivating for the audience.

[Lot666]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 8:40am

Listener said: "So now Jeremy Stolle was also underwhelming...?

That's two I guess. How many Phantom actors are there left to "choose" from? Just Greg Mills? Any others popping in?"

IMHO, Jeremy Stolle is quite good. His voice is fantastic, although his take on the character does stray a bit from the norm. His natural personality is big and inclined toward biting humor, so his performance leans into showiness, flourishes, and gleeful malice. His Phantom reads as more mad than most (think Vincent Price's laugh in vintage horror films). I have never been disappointed to see him.

Greg Mills, like Laird Mackintosh, is from the classic Michael Crawford playbook.

[Phantour]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 8:48am

Listener said: "All I've seen is a brief clip of him from the Final Lair where he seemed to walk around in a very contemporary way...confidently and with ego....not at all seeming like a broken man from another century making desperate threats.

I think someone online even likened Ben's vibe to that of a "dude-bro".

...is that how he comes off in the role, ultimately? Is his a performance out of step with the era and needs of the material?

I've seen Phantoms that didn't win my sympathy and it really affected the entire experience of seeing the show. I'd hope to see it again with an actor who makes me care for the character..."

Contemporary - what a great way to describe how Ben's Phantom comes off. I couldn't put my finger on it, but this is it!

I second Lot666 on Greg Mills making you care for the character. Another choice from me, which I know Lot666 and I disagree on, is Ted Keegan. If someone asked what actor have you seen in the role that has moved you the most in the Final Lair - I would say Ted Keegan in a heartbeat. His character is all about hope. He has it even when he notices when Christine returns in the end in with the ring. He always breaks my heart. 

Maybe I shouldn't have read this thread before seeing the show tonight. But I must remind myself, I am going for Kanisha Feliciano's final scheduled Christine and I will just put all my focus on her. 

 

[defenses]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 9:01am

Listener said: "...I have also been very particular about people's interpretations of the role, and sadly some widely-loved actors just left me cold when I saw them…

...is it just me or did, at some point over the course of the decades, it start becoming more and more rare to see a Phantom and Christine who generated the kind of chemistry needed to sustain the show?"

I think the main point is that it’s all personal preference. I haven’t seen a Phantom (or Christine) who is 100% loved or 100% hated by everyone. 

As for chemistry, there are a few pairings I’ve seen via video that seem to work well, but I haven’t seen them in person so I can’t be certain. I think one additional factor that I’ve noticed is that a strong Raoul makes a difference. He needs to be more than the “default” answer. It changes the dynamic of the show.

Lot666 said: "IMHO, Jeremy Stolle is quite good. His voice is fantastic, although his take on the character does stray a bit from the norm. His natural personality is big and inclined toward biting humor, so his performance leans into showiness, flourishes, and gleeful malice. His Phantom reads as more mad than most (think Vincent Price's laugh in vintage horror films). I have never been disappointed to see him.Greg Mills, like Laird Mackintosh, is from the classic Michael Crawford playbook."

Well, you sold me on Jeremy. His Phantom sounds right up my alley! :)

[Penna2]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 12:14pm

defenses said: "Listener said: "...I have also been very particular about people's interpretations of the role, and sadly some widely-loved actors just left me cold when I saw them…

...is it just me or did, at some point over the course of the decades, it start becoming more and more rare to see a Phantom and Christine who generated the kind of chemistry needed to sustain the show?"

I think the main point is that it’s all personal preference. I haven’t seen a Phantom (or Christine) who is 100% loved or 100% hated by everyone.

As for chemistry, there are a few pairings I’ve seen via video that seem to work well, but I haven’t seen them in person so I can’t be certain. I think one additional factor that I’ve noticed is that a strong Raoul makes a difference. He needs to be more than the “default” answer. It changes the dynamic of the show.

Lot666 said: "IMHO, Jeremy Stolle is quite good. His voice is fantastic, although his take on the character does stray a bit from the norm. His natural personality is big and inclined toward biting humor, so his performance leans into showiness, flourishes, and gleeful malice. His Phantom reads as more mad than most (think Vincent Price's laugh in vintage horror films). I have never been disappointed to see him.Greg Mills, like Laird Mackintosh, is from the classic Michael Crawford playbook."

Well, you sold me on Jeremy. His Phantom sounds right up my alley! :)"

Jeremy Stolle has the sexiest walk in the world during MOTN. His Phantom is softer than some, but he has a wonderful voice and a great sense of humor.

 

[Voter]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 1:53pm

Jeremy Stolle is by far my favorite Phantom. Greg Mills is a close second. If Laird gets to go back on, then he'd be my third. Some solid talent at the Majestic right now. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 3:06pm

Voter said: "Jeremy Stolle is by far my favorite Phantom. Greg Mills is a close second. If Laird gets to go back on, then he'd be my third. Some solid talent at the Majestic right now."

Sometimes the order moves around for me, but basically, I agree. It still confounds me that none of them were ever given a full-time contract to play this role on Broadway.

Updated On: 2/22/23 at 03:06 PM

[Phantour]

Posted: 2/22/23 at 5:30pm

Lot666 said: "Voter said: "Jeremy Stolle is by far my favorite Phantom. Greg Mills is a close second. If Laird gets to go back on, then he'd be my third. Some solid talent at the Majestic right now."

Sometimes the order moves around for me, but basically, I agree. It still confounds me that none of them were ever given a full-time contract to play this role on Broadway."

I think fans have been wondering that for years with Jeremy Stolle. Unfortunately, all the Phantom understudies are just so talented that I think they want to use them for other roles too. The price of being a good swing/ensemble member.