Phantom Closing? — Page 8

joevitus said: "But...no one in theater can expect their job to last forever. He employed them for 35 years, which is extremely rare, and extremely lucky for them.

I can't speak to the estate issues. If Prince or Bjornson or Lynne were alive, I'd see an issue. But really? He owes their kids and grandkids an easy living? And won't they have an easy life just based on the money already generated?

It just seems a bit silly."

But that Cam Mack's exact opinion. It would seem shady to do it while they were still alive so wait until they're dead. The remounted productions aren't being used to make the show viable, it's to transfer their royalties to himself. You're correct that nobody can be expecting to have a 35+ career on one show, but if you're looking at it and can clearly that the issues for why it's closing are not monetary (despite what they've "said" you can absolutely question the motives behind it. Phantom is not too expensive to run, he just doesn't feel it's profitable ENOUGH for HIM to continue to run even tho it literally takes no effort on his part except cashing his checks. The billion dollar man wants more dollars and that is the cut and dry of it.

joevitus said: "RippedMan said: "Exactly. He's kicking people out of their 35 year old job just to get himself more money."

But...no one in theater can expect their job to last forever. He employed them for 35 years, which is extremely rare, and extremely lucky for them.

I can't speak to the estate issues. If Prince or Bjornson or Lynne were alive, I'd see an issue. But really? He owes their kids and grandkids an easy living? And won't they have an easy life just based on the money already generated?

It just seems a bit silly."

People losing their jobs because a billionaire wants more money seems silly to you?

Someone asked at the box office earlier today and they didn’t have a specific on sale date yet

Having sympathy for people losing their job of 35 years is silly. Cool, copy that.

joevitus said: "RippedMan said: "joevitus said: "RippedMan said: "Exactly. He's kicking people out of their 35 year old job just to get himself more money."

But...no one in theater can expect their job to last forever. He employed them for 35 years, which is extremely rare, and extremely lucky for them.

I can't speak to the estate issues. If Prince or Bjornson or Lynne were alive, I'd see an issue. But really? He owes their kids and grandkids an easy living? And won't they have an easy life just based on the money already generated?

It just seems a bit silly."

People losing their jobs because a billionaire wants more money seems silly to you?"

Expecting someone to finance the lives of others forever is extremely silly. Almost no job in the theater lasts anywhere this long, and I'm sure there are people who have been with the show and retired and been replaced. There's no way the show can last indefinitely just to make sure everyone who ever joins the company is employed forever--and they will surely find other jobs, and people in theater do.

Your argument is melodramatic and, yes, silly."

I see and agree with much of what you’re saying, but people in the industry seek out jobs at Phantom specifically for job security. It’s not seen as the same sort of job as originating a role, etc. They may find another job, but they took this job with certain expectations and for a reason beyond the typical reason those in the theatre take jobs.

I'm saddened by the closing announcement more for nostalgia than anything else - and the reality that probably in our lifetimes we won't see this type of grand-theater production again - with a massive cast/ orchestra/ stage craft. The economics just don't seem to be there anymore. To be honest, it was ALW and CM that were able to make the economics work 35 + years ago. They were the most expensive things mounted, and they were marketed and produced in a way that made them financially viable to endure this long. Someone mentioned that The Music Man with its $3million a week grossing hasn't recouped yet. I find that hard to believe and I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but even if it has, it will be a modest-recovery of investment. The fact that POTO original "competition" when it opened in NY 35 years ago, Into the Woods has been revived what three, four times and I doubt made its investment back is the hard truth of the economics of the theatre industry.

Hey if I win Mega-Millions, one dream is to revive Sunset Boulevard with its original sets, with that symphonic orchestra they had in the 2017 revival, get some A-listers to star in it, even if it only plays for a week (and you can be damn sure it would be professional filmed even if I could never air it). But those are pipe dreams for sure...

Its a business and an industry. ALW and CM when they mounted this 35 years ago employed a heck of a lot of people especially at a time when theatre and NY itself were not in the best of shape. You can argue they helped attract Disney and others to have a new look and attracted other talent to take their chances on the stage. So I get both extremes of opinions here - but find it hard to be overly critical to CM (even if he does ultimately bring back a pared-down sub par version....)

I was waiting for joevitus to chime in with his usual brilliance and he didn't disappoint. I'll just leave it at that.

TheatreFan4 said: "joevitus said: "Expecting someone to finance the lives of others forever is extremely silly. Almost no job in the theater lasts anywhere this long, and I'm sure there are people who have been with the show and retired and been replaced. There's no way the show can last indefinitely just to make sure everyone who ever joins the company is employed forever--and they will surely find other jobs, and people in theater do.

Your argument is melodramatic and, yes, silly."

So closing a Broadway institution and Broadway staple that brings people to Broadway, layoffing a couple hundred employees, ending a 35 year run not because it's monetarily unfeasible anymore but just because you don't feel like you're getting enough profit from it is not silly? Like Cam Mack can do whatever he'd like, clearly, but that doesn't make it silly for people to criticize the cheap hollow reasons he has to do it."

If in fact the show is no longer making a profit, yes that's what you do. You know this. Stop being ridiculous. No one who joined Phantom in 1988 said, "And now I'll be employed for life."

It's one thing to have empathy for them they they are losing a job. It's another to say Mackintosh is an evil person because he won't employ them forever when he's rich. It's just dumb. Don't be dumb.

No one's being dumb and no one is twisting your words. You said what you said.

And the numbers don't lie, he's not losing any money in its current form.

joevitus said: "
If in fact the show is no longer making a profit, yes that's what you do. You know this. Stop being ridiculous. No one who joined Phantom in 1988 said, "And now I'll be employed for life."

It's one thing to have empathy for them they they are losing a job. It's another to say Mackintosh is an evil person because he won't employ them forever when he's rich. It's just dumb. Don't be dumb."

Keep letting the Billion Dollar man lie to your face when you can see quite plainly (the numbers are very much available to you) that he's full of ****. That's the reality. This is not the first or second time he's done this. This is now the THIRD time he's screwed creatives out of their royalties to line his own pockets more in the last decade alone. He's not interested in keeping these art pieces alive, he just wants more money.

Here's hoping the whole thing crashes and burns and they're just forced to bring back "the brilliant original."

Just found the time to come to this thread. First show I saw on Broadway. Had seen other shows on tour, big city sit-down productions, etc. Phantom, when I saw it on Broadway, blew my mind. The music, the stage craft, and everything else. So sad to see it go.

Thankfully I was able to see it again in 2016 when a friend was playing Raoul and again June of this year with the same Raoul. I thought it was in excellent shape this past June. The Christine was incredible too.

Have a trip planned for the first week of February, so hoping to be able to snag a ticket to see this staple of broadway one more time.

Count me in as one of those who is complete saddened by the news of it shutting down. The Phantom of the Opera felt liked a solid fixture of New York City. This is the musical that got my attention and introduced me to theater. Even more sad for me is that I planned on bring my two teens to NYC in the Spring to see 'The Brilliant Original' as the one that is currently touring is 'meh' in comparison.

I can't believe it.