Phantom Closing?- Page 9

[Adam Chris]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 12:19am

Count me in as one of those who is complete saddened by the news of it shutting down.  The Phantom of the Opera felt liked a solid fixture of New York City.   This is the musical that got my attention and introduced me to theater.  Even more sad for me is that I planned on bring my two teens to NYC in the Spring to see 'The Brilliant Original' as the one that is currently touring is 'meh' in comparison. 

I can't believe it.

[joevitus]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 2:00am

TheatreMonkey said: "TheatreFan4 said: "joevitus said: "
If in fact the show is no longer making a profit, yes that's what you do. You know this. Stop being ridiculous. No one who joined Phantom in 1988 said, "And now I'll be employed for life."

It's one thing to have empathy for them they they are losing a job. It's another to say Mackintosh is an evil person because he won't employ them forever when he's rich. It's just dumb. Don't be dumb."

Keep letting the Billion Dollar man lie to your face when you can see quite plainly (the numbers are very much available to you) that he's full of ****. That's the reality. This is not the first or second time he's done this. This is now the THIRD time he's screwed creatives out of their royalties to line his own pockets more in the last decade alone. He's not interested in keeping these art pieces alive, he just wants more money."

To wade into this passionate discussion, part of what bothers me so much is that the contributions of the deceased have proven to be pivotal to the success of "Phantom" -- look at the versions without those sets and meticulous direction; how'd they do? So, those contributions are essential, and dead or not, they (or their estates, to be precise) must be compensated for the blood, sweat, and tears that made this production the 35-year old stalwart that it is."

What you're kinda saying is that the show isn't much on its own, it was just mounted really well. I could easily agree with that.

However, as the people you're discussing are no longer alive, I'm not sure what it matters if Mackintosh alters the sets and direction so he doesn't have to pay the estates as much. It's one thing to complain the show isn't as good--that's valid. To peg someone a victim because people's heirs won't continue to make a hefty profit seems...something else.

I get the sorrow over a beloved show closing. I get the unhappiness that people are going to have to search for new jobs. But this production kept a lot of people employed and brought a few people (and their heirs) a whole lot of profits for far longer than any other show in Broadway's history. To call the man responsible for that a villain and despise him because he won't continue to do it forever--again, it's a bit silly. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 10:01am

BroadwayNYC2 said: "the show is in rickety shape"

What does that mean?

 

[pethian]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 10:29am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "It's been years since I was last in the Majestic. How is the interior of the house, lobby & bathroom space, etc? Does it all need a facelift, or should we be expecting a new tenant on the heels of Phantom?"

Facelift, is what I'm hearing.

 

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 10:31am

Lot666 said: "BroadwayNYC2 said: "the show is in rickety shape"

What does that mean?

Yeah I'm curious as well. I've seen the show six times this year and everything about it is in top shape. 

The only thing I'll say is now that Harold Prince is dead, there is no one to lovingly look after the show like he did. 

And even if the sets WERE falling apart etc, if you think for one second that Cameron Mackintosh said "aw man I would love for Phantom to keep running but its just in such bad shape I have no choice to close it!" you're way off base. Word now is that ALW fought very hard against this but it sounds like Cameron has wanted this show gone for a long time and he is finally getting his way. 
"

 

[MysteriousLady]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 11:21am

Lot666 said: "BroadwayNYC2 said: "the show is in rickety shape"

What does that mean?

"

Every other comment I've seen says that it's in remarkable shape, unlike Chicago or Lion King. 

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 11:32am

Choreography was rough, notes were missed, scene transitions lacked momentum. It was not the night I had the first time I saw it (not the second, third, fourth). It very much felt like it has been running for 35 years. I get many of you are super fans, and my Opinion of the most recent performance doesn’t change that, but for me, the show has had brighter days and im thankful for the great times I’ve had at the show in the past. 

[OhHiJohnny]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 1:19pm

To add to the comments on the show recently: 

 

I saw the show at the end of June. Many, many understudies, including The Phantom, Carlotta, AND an understudy’s first time as Christine (such meta, I know), but the show was easily in the best shape I’d seen it in in years. 
 

A glorious production in stellar form. It may be a theme park ride, but what a glorious one it is. 

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 1:27pm

I think the Broadway production is in top form now. It looks, sounds and feels fresh.

Hopefully they will just make some adjustments like they did in London, it would be a shame if this classic show stops altogether. I feel that Cameron initially pretended that the London production would stay the "brilliant original" but just bigger and better, and that it was the fans that called it "closed" and a "completely different production". Hopefully we will get some news soon.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 2:15pm

Surprised ALW didn't try and just become the only producer at this point. Buy out Cameron.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 2:16pm

From NYT  brief interview with Mackintosh, "The World has Changed."

 

What are the weekly running costs?

Just under about $950,000 net now, which is about $100,000 more than it was pre-Covid. Costs on both sides of the Atlantic have gone up, whereas the box office hasn’t. And generally, I would say, across my group of theaters, there’s much less international tourism. Box office is down 10 to 15 percent on average. The truth is that “Phantom” was having a number of losing weeks pre-Covid, but the good weeks were much, much higher. And there comes a point, with any show, where there is a tipping point, where the number of good weeks has declined sufficiently that actually it’s outweighed by the number of losing weeks, and at that point there’s only one sensible decision to make.

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 2:50pm

Wow if that's true about 950,000 weekly nut, that is quite a drastic increase from just a few years ago. I think only Wicked, Hamilton and Lion King could afford to stay open with that running cost. 

That said, when Phantom "closed" in London in summer 2020, he gave many similar interviews and went so far as to ask why anyone would want a job playing in the same orchestra pit for years and years. Then he focused more on how broken down the sets were etc. This time he's focusing on the running costs and Russia lol. 

Now it is ALW's cue to deny everything CamMack just said and say he's fighting to somehow keep the show in New York. 

[DaveyG]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 3:04pm

JasonC3 said: "From NYT brief interview with Mackintosh, "The World has Changed."



What are the weekly running costs?

Just under about $950,000 net now, which is about $100,000 more than it was pre-Covid. Costs on both sides of the Atlantic have gone up, whereas the box office hasn’t. And generally, I would say, across my group of theaters, there’s much less international tourism. Box office is down 10 to 15 percent on average. The truth is that “Phantom” was having a number of losing weeks pre-Covid, but the good weeks were much, much higher. And there comes a point, with any show, where there is a tipping point, where the number of good weeks has declined sufficiently that actually it’s outweighed by the number of losing weeks, and at that point there’s only one sensible decision to make."

Zero mention of Hal Prince in this interview with Mackintosh. “It’s a different world that Andrew and I created the show in.”

He has always had contempt for his own directors - downsizing and altering productions to avoid paying royalties. 

[chernjam]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 3:16pm

Well selling over $2million in 24 hours - its no wonder they delayed selling the "last night" tickets.  Something tells me that it might extend

[IronMan]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 6:09pm

I foresee exactly what happened when they closed Les Miserables in 2003; closing was announced in the fall with a date set for the end of February.  Then in January, they announced that due to "overwhelming demand" the closing date would be pushed back until the end of May.  Which enabled them to fill the houses for the slow months of Jan/Feb, and still cash in on the spring school groups.  

With all the renovations to the theater, a closing in Feb. wouldn't give any new show long enough to move in before the Tony Awards' cut-off date in April, anyway.  I'd bet money on it.  

[MannPhan24601]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 9:03pm

CamMac is a freaking billionaire . I'm sure he could stunt or star cast . Even an established  Broadway name like Andy Karl or Adam Pascal could bring in sales like it did with Norm Lewis . Even somebody like Chris Mann who did the tour can bring in some numbers (as he's now known as a YT comedian ) 

[saxpower]

Posted: 9/18/22 at 11:05pm

IronMan said: "I foresee exactly what happened when they closedLes Miserablesin 2003; closing was announced in the fall with a date set for the end of February. Then in January, they announced that due to "overwhelming demand" the closing date would be pushed back until the end of May. Which enabled them to fill the houses for the slow months of Jan/Feb, and still cash in on the spring school groups.

With all the renovations to the theater, a closing in Feb. wouldn't give any new show long enough to move in before the Tony Awards' cut-off date in April, anyway. I'd bet money on it."

There's also the time required to remove the Phantom set which is pretty substantial.  There also may be traps, added lifts, etc that were put in that may need to be removed (might the Shuberts decide they'd just as soon keep these available? I though I heard somewhere the passageway added for Grizabella to get back down to stage is blocked off but still there at the Winter Garden). 

The other question was whether any renovations were done during the shutdown (some things probably were not doable with 8 shows a week going on, but did not require the show being removed from the theatre). 

Still, I tend to agree- even a Feb 18 closing won't provide time for a new show this season- or at least a show of the type needs to fill the Majestic.  (Not that any such revival is on the horizon, but as an example- something like "Our Town" could be put in fast enough- but won't work in such a big theatre). 

[jo]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 12:08am

Also from the NYTimes interview --

"Why is “Phantom” so expensive to run?

Many of the long-runners — “Cats,” “Chicago,” “Chorus Line,” even “Hamilton,” which will be a long-runner — they’re all single-set shows with mostly limited costumes. We’ve got 27 musicians. It’s a different world that Andrew and I created the show in. Most of my great shows were created during the ’80s, and that world has disappeared. We are in different times."

Will we still see spectacular shows in the future, with multiple sets, beautiful costumes, large orchestras, big production numbers? There's Moulin Rouge. But The Music Man is closing as well. 

Are those days gone?

[femcelfreedomfighter]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 1:46am

aw

Updated On: 9/19/22 at 01:46 AM

[Lot666]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 9:08am

jo said: "Also from the NYTimes interview --

...It’s a different world that Andrew and I created the show in."

He's so disgustingly pompous. Cameron Mackintosh is not an artist and he did not "create" Phantom, or any other show. He's a ruthless businessman and nothing more.

Have I missed something, or has there been no acknowledgment of the show's closing by ALW? I've seen nothing from him on social media or in any news article. 

Updated On: 9/19/22 at 09:08 AM

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 9:46am

I've seen Phantom on Broadway about nine times. I'd ask friends who came for a visit what Broadway show they'd like to see and Phantom was a favorite. I grew weary of it though, especially the last two times when the chandelier was out of commission. It was just lying there, very distracting and disheartening. Like it was dead. Right before intermission I would go to use the rest room and noticed staff members taking naps in the lobby. This was several years ago. Out with a whimper... 

Updated On: 9/19/22 at 09:46 AM

[YvanEhtNioj]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 9:50am

I always thought that Chicago would go before Phantom...

Phantom was THE FIRST musical/theatre performance I EVER saw. It was on tour and came to the Dr. Phillips Center in Orlando while I was in college there. Up until then, I always thought that performing arts, musicals, etc.. were "white people sh*t". I decided to get a ticket the day before and it forever changed my life. 

Updated On: 9/19/22 at 09:50 AM

[Emma_Pillsbury]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 9:52am

Stage Door Sally said: "I've seen Phantom on Broadway about nine times. I'd ask friends who came for a visit what Broadway show they'd like to see and Phantom was a favorite. I grew weary of it though, especially the last two times when the chandelier was out of commission. It was just lying there, very distracting and disheartening. Like it was dead. Right before intermission I would go to use the rest room and noticed staff members taking naps in the lobby. This was several years ago. Out with a whimper..."

Sadly, these long running shows become museum pieces. Stale over time with very little oversight. Everyone is on auto pilot. 

"Phantom" had its long run - its over stayed its welcome.

 

[Chase Miller]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 9:55am

There's a ton of stunt casting you could do with Phantom to keep the show open.

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 9/19/22 at 10:03am

Mackintosh hints that Phantom could potentially return to NY in the future "in some form":

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Cameron-Mackintosh-Says-THE-PHANTOM-OF-THE-OPERA-Will-Come-Back-at-Some-Point-20220919