#401
Posted: 2/3/12 at 7:15pm
Owen, you've just been far kinder about the (many gay) comment above than I am in my head.
She's Back! CARRIE - First preview !!! — Page 17
#402
Posted: 2/3/12 at 7:50pm
This thread has turned in to such an awesome debate thread, if nothing else it shows people are still intersted in this show.
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#403
Posted: 2/3/12 at 7:56pm
And this is the genius of Piper Laurie's performance in the film and why it is such a master class in acting: SHE PLAYS THE LOVE AND POSITIVE ENERGY IN EVERY SCENE.
--Dropping by Pricilla Pointer's house to preach about the "salvation through Christ's blood". Laurie plays it like Maria Von Trapp making a mass flower delivery.
--Stabbing Carrie at the end. Laurie herself said she made the choice that Margaret was giving her daughter a wonderful, loving gift by giving her deadly salvation.
--Her death by a dozen household objects. Laurie chooses to play the death not in anger or pain but as a long, joyous, orgasmic release. Ballsy and brilliant and POSITIVE. Kudos to DePalma for letting her just go with it.
--While most actresses would probably play Margaret as a sexless frump with her hair in a tight bun, Laurie lets her red hair go and rather resembles Maggie the cat after serious brainwashing by Salem Puritans.
Watch that unforgettable performance closely. Laurie never judged Margaret. Neither should the creators of this musical.
--Dropping by Pricilla Pointer's house to preach about the "salvation through Christ's blood". Laurie plays it like Maria Von Trapp making a mass flower delivery.
--Stabbing Carrie at the end. Laurie herself said she made the choice that Margaret was giving her daughter a wonderful, loving gift by giving her deadly salvation.
--Her death by a dozen household objects. Laurie chooses to play the death not in anger or pain but as a long, joyous, orgasmic release. Ballsy and brilliant and POSITIVE. Kudos to DePalma for letting her just go with it.
--While most actresses would probably play Margaret as a sexless frump with her hair in a tight bun, Laurie lets her red hair go and rather resembles Maggie the cat after serious brainwashing by Salem Puritans.
Watch that unforgettable performance closely. Laurie never judged Margaret. Neither should the creators of this musical.
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
~ Muhammad Ali
#404
Posted: 2/3/12 at 7:57pm
"She certainly isn't saving Carrie from herself."
Parents who are enmeshed with their children don't think they need saving from themselves. They are blind to that.
Owen, yes I went there. Men, including gay ones, will never carry a child or give birth and that makes them ignorant to a lot about mother child bonds that far exceed those between a father and child. Ask any mother. Mothers experience things that a father never can.
Parents who are enmeshed with their children don't think they need saving from themselves. They are blind to that.
Owen, yes I went there. Men, including gay ones, will never carry a child or give birth and that makes them ignorant to a lot about mother child bonds that far exceed those between a father and child. Ask any mother. Mothers experience things that a father never can.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#405
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:03pm
"Ask any mother. Mothers experience things that a father never can."
Sure. And some mothers lie about things that fathers never can.
You are over-therapied and just a hair short of earning a big gay foot up your ass.
Sure. And some mothers lie about things that fathers never can.
You are over-therapied and just a hair short of earning a big gay foot up your ass.
Updated On: 2/3/12 at 08:03 PM
#406
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:17pm
Violence is never the answer. Just ask Margaret White.
I love getting schooled by someone with the incredibly offensive "Trannie" logo as their avatar. Ask any transgendered person how they feel about the term Trannie.
Can we get back to talking about Carrie now?
I love getting schooled by someone with the incredibly offensive "Trannie" logo as their avatar. Ask any transgendered person how they feel about the term Trannie.
Can we get back to talking about Carrie now?
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#407
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:20pm
Yeah, and I don't like the word 'faggot' either, until it's funny.
I loathe the little PC world you live in and I'm so sorry that it has intersected with mine here.
I loathe the little PC world you live in and I'm so sorry that it has intersected with mine here.
#408
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:24pm
Actually parents who love but abuse their children isn't PC. I am not PC, simply respectful.
It seems to be you who believes that love is clean and tidy and well defined. I think you are one living in the PC bubble.
I've made my feelings known about Carrie and Margaret's relationship. Maybe some mothers on the board can chime in.
It seems to be you who believes that love is clean and tidy and well defined. I think you are one living in the PC bubble.
I've made my feelings known about Carrie and Margaret's relationship. Maybe some mothers on the board can chime in.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#409
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:27pm
Bettyboy--as much as I admire your insight into the human experience (and I'm not being snarky; I truly do), I don't think the mother-child bond was exactly what Stephen King was exploring when he created the characters of Margaret and Carrie White and their various desires and attempts to murder each other.
This is Stephen King. He writes horror. He's proud of the genre. It involves blood and guts and gore. He creates people who may seem benevolent but are revealed to be monsters, not monsters who are revealed to be human.
This is a musical version of Carrie, not a musical version of 'Night, Mother.
This is Stephen King. He writes horror. He's proud of the genre. It involves blood and guts and gore. He creates people who may seem benevolent but are revealed to be monsters, not monsters who are revealed to be human.
This is a musical version of Carrie, not a musical version of 'Night, Mother.
#410
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:29pm
Um, lovely? The PC comment was in reference to your belief that the word 'trannie' is too offensive to deserve voice. Not sure how you missed that.
I'm happy to acknowledge our mutual distaste for one another and skip happily on as (many gay) men are known to do.
I'm happy to acknowledge our mutual distaste for one another and skip happily on as (many gay) men are known to do.
#411
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:34pm
Joey-I agree, but horror is psychological. Thats why people respond to it. I think Carrie is among one of the most emotionally rich of King's works. Yes, there are the larger funhouse aspects of the piece, but people also responded emotionally to the work-whether they were traumatized by their parents or their peers, it definitely scared people but it also made them think. That's the beauty of it.
Its archetypes are well known and rooted in reality.
Its archetypes are well known and rooted in reality.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
Updated On: 2/3/12 at 08:34 PM
#412
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:36pm
It IS a bit of a conundrum...How do you fix a musical when the best thing about it is how terrible it is?
Behind the fake tinsel of Broadway is real tinsel.
#413
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:40pm
Come on, guys, this thread keeps pushing the limits of cattiness and topic derailment...even for BroadwayWorld!
Anyway, I am glad to hear that Tesley is inviting a little audience feedback. And I hope that some well-reasoned comments might make the production team think for a moment about whether all of their choices are really conveying what they intend to. It seems like virtually everyone who has reported here has the same issue about the timidity of the show's tone.
I have rarely seen real, substantial change over a preview period. But it seems as though a few small touches and fixes could really help the show, if the Arima and company are at all willing to honestly listen to their audience.
I doubt that we'll ever get the entirely necessary (and innately theatrical, despite being literal) blood drop, since Arima has made his feelings on the matter very public via the Times. I still fail to see what is more theatrical or legitimate about using a red light. The choice seems simultaneously obvious and unclear.
But maybe the performances will be allowed to grow. This is not a naturalistic story, it is a horror allegory.
Anyway, I am glad to hear that Tesley is inviting a little audience feedback. And I hope that some well-reasoned comments might make the production team think for a moment about whether all of their choices are really conveying what they intend to. It seems like virtually everyone who has reported here has the same issue about the timidity of the show's tone.
I have rarely seen real, substantial change over a preview period. But it seems as though a few small touches and fixes could really help the show, if the Arima and company are at all willing to honestly listen to their audience.
I doubt that we'll ever get the entirely necessary (and innately theatrical, despite being literal) blood drop, since Arima has made his feelings on the matter very public via the Times. I still fail to see what is more theatrical or legitimate about using a red light. The choice seems simultaneously obvious and unclear.
But maybe the performances will be allowed to grow. This is not a naturalistic story, it is a horror allegory.
#414
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:44pm
I look forward to the tweaking over the coming weeks and I am glad that Idiot started the previews thread for tracking changes.
Im seeing it near the end of the run so I am jealous of you that are able to see it as it evolves.
Im seeing it near the end of the run so I am jealous of you that are able to see it as it evolves.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#415
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:51pm
I have rarely seen real, substantial change over a preview period.
This is often true. But of recent memory, WOMEN ON THE VERGE made some pretty major changes during previews.
This is often true. But of recent memory, WOMEN ON THE VERGE made some pretty major changes during previews.
#416
Posted: 2/3/12 at 8:57pm
Good point ljay and I think the creative team is taking this very seriously. Maybe too seriously :)
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#417
Posted: 2/3/12 at 9:53pm
The fact that they have five weeks of previews and that I heard the composer with my own ears say "they have a lot of work to do" gives me some reason to believe the artistic team is open to some changes. As I kind of suggested a little earlier though, I hope the writing team will also allow themselves to take a good long hard look at the mother -daughter material as well They've spent twenty years rewriting the material for the teens and secondary characters but have seemingly left completely alone everything between Carrie and her mother, which may actually be a little att the heart of some of the problems despite the strength of that material as stand alone songs.
I also truly value bettyboys insights but agree with Pal Joey that it's a real trap to get caught up in the psychology of the relationship except to say that it's ****ed up, Margaret is crazy and it's a horror story no matter what way you cut it.
I actually think no matter how cohearant they make the script, if they continue down the path of trying to turn a Stephen King Horror story into a realistic domestic-school drama- they are going to suffer just as awful reviews and word of mouth, as those that met the equally misguided broadway premiere...
I also truly value bettyboys insights but agree with Pal Joey that it's a real trap to get caught up in the psychology of the relationship except to say that it's ****ed up, Margaret is crazy and it's a horror story no matter what way you cut it.
I actually think no matter how cohearant they make the script, if they continue down the path of trying to turn a Stephen King Horror story into a realistic domestic-school drama- they are going to suffer just as awful reviews and word of mouth, as those that met the equally misguided broadway premiere...
Updated On: 2/3/12 at 09:53 PM
#418
Posted: 2/3/12 at 9:57pm
I have rarely seen real, substantial change over a preview period.
Spider-Man comes to mind, but I guess that doesn't count.
Spider-Man comes to mind, but I guess that doesn't count.
#419
Posted: 2/4/12 at 12:56am
I will say the handling of "I remember how those boys could dance" was wonderful - perfectly played - and THIS is the moment where you see the humanity behind the monster that is Margaret - it's all in the song and Marrin does it incredibly well.
#420
Posted: 2/4/12 at 1:06am
I don't think the music and lyrics of Carrie are strong enough to support the approach the creative team is taking here. When it's presented in such an ultra-serious way, you start noticing how 2nd rate much of the material is.
Behind the fake tinsel of Broadway is real tinsel.
#421
Posted: 2/4/12 at 2:17am
Is it an open ended run?
#422
Posted: 2/4/12 at 2:29am
Saw it tonight. Friday Feb 4. I have never seen the musical before. I think its just one of those stories that should have never been musicalized. It seems that is a musical about a period.. Much ado about a period or at best its a period musical.
It has a couple of good moments but its just plain unbelievable, and melodramatic. "Carrie is good; but the kids and her mother are bad." The gym teacher is good but the kids are bad.: The music just isn't that good. The choreography isn't great And the plot and characters seem so melodramatic. And yes the cast is trying hard.
The handling of the blood didn't bother me. Maybe because I was expecting it to be awful from the reports on here. People were still hooting at awkward campy moments. I found the end confusing. Why did this mother who loves her daughter knife her? It was frankly ludicrous.
Molly Ranson was indeed perfect as Carrie--The role of of Margaret White is just underdeveloped, one dimensional and odd but I thought Marin Mazzie did what she could with this underwritten one dimensional role. Carmen Cusack as the gym teacher had some great moments with Carrie.
But it is still a musical that is just not very good.
It has a couple of good moments but its just plain unbelievable, and melodramatic. "Carrie is good; but the kids and her mother are bad." The gym teacher is good but the kids are bad.: The music just isn't that good. The choreography isn't great And the plot and characters seem so melodramatic. And yes the cast is trying hard.
The handling of the blood didn't bother me. Maybe because I was expecting it to be awful from the reports on here. People were still hooting at awkward campy moments. I found the end confusing. Why did this mother who loves her daughter knife her? It was frankly ludicrous.
Molly Ranson was indeed perfect as Carrie--The role of of Margaret White is just underdeveloped, one dimensional and odd but I thought Marin Mazzie did what she could with this underwritten one dimensional role. Carmen Cusack as the gym teacher had some great moments with Carrie.
But it is still a musical that is just not very good.
#423
Posted: 2/4/12 at 4:01am
I wish I could see/hear this production to judge for myself, but I am enjoying the debate (well mostly...)
Bettyboy, this is not meant to sound mean spirited, more curious. You're a practicing shrink, and yet you said :"Margaret does love Carrie. I love how all the men on these boards (many gay) will so quickly say that she does not." Just curious--what does the gay part have to do with it?
Bettyboy, this is not meant to sound mean spirited, more curious. You're a practicing shrink, and yet you said :"Margaret does love Carrie. I love how all the men on these boards (many gay) will so quickly say that she does not." Just curious--what does the gay part have to do with it?
#424
Posted: 2/4/12 at 6:27am
Is anyone forgetting about Patricia Clarkson's take on Margaret in the TV movie version about a decade ago? She tried the whole subtle approach and she barely even registered as a character. She just wasn't very threatening or interesting.
I think Margaret is given just enough pathos in "Evening Prayers" and "I Remember How Those Boys Could Dance" to flesh her out. I never felt much love while reading the book or seeing the original film. She loved Jesus and her Bible, but that was about it. Certainly, she can be conflicted, but she's still pretty much a monster, IMO. This isn't Madame Rose we're talking about her (who, I feel, is best played with a lot of pathos and not just a one note steamroller.)
Piper Laurie really set the bar. She was pitch perfect. She gave a big performance without going over the top. She always straddled the line so well. There was a joy in her eyes all the time. A joy for God. Everything she did, every time she smiled, you knew it was because she thought she was doing God's work. Look at all those Westboro freak shows. They truly believe what they're doing is right and you can see it in their eyes.
From what I've heard about the previews, they're telling Marin to play it like a woman torn between her deep love for her child and her even deeper love for God. That's just not the Margaret I know and love to hate. They really need to re-think this choice. I think they're so scared to go over the top that they're playing everything too safe. Margaret doesn't have to be comically over the top at all. Just go back to Piper's performance. I know Marin has it in her to let her hair down (literally) and add some venom back into the role.
I think Margaret is given just enough pathos in "Evening Prayers" and "I Remember How Those Boys Could Dance" to flesh her out. I never felt much love while reading the book or seeing the original film. She loved Jesus and her Bible, but that was about it. Certainly, she can be conflicted, but she's still pretty much a monster, IMO. This isn't Madame Rose we're talking about her (who, I feel, is best played with a lot of pathos and not just a one note steamroller.)
Piper Laurie really set the bar. She was pitch perfect. She gave a big performance without going over the top. She always straddled the line so well. There was a joy in her eyes all the time. A joy for God. Everything she did, every time she smiled, you knew it was because she thought she was doing God's work. Look at all those Westboro freak shows. They truly believe what they're doing is right and you can see it in their eyes.
From what I've heard about the previews, they're telling Marin to play it like a woman torn between her deep love for her child and her even deeper love for God. That's just not the Margaret I know and love to hate. They really need to re-think this choice. I think they're so scared to go over the top that they're playing everything too safe. Margaret doesn't have to be comically over the top at all. Just go back to Piper's performance. I know Marin has it in her to let her hair down (literally) and add some venom back into the role.
#425
Posted: 2/4/12 at 8:13am
Patricia Clarkson's Margaret was still more affective than this one.
Because this Margaret is so affectionate, it scales down a huge factor, that Carrie is abused by her mother and this has had a serious affect on her. This Margaret loved her daughter so much, that you almost feel bad for her desperation. It made me think "None of this would have happened if Carrie listened to her mother and stayed home" which is true of every incarnation, but I never thought about that until seeing this one. I personally don't want to ever think that after seeing Carrie! Carrie's life is absolutely awful and I feel like I should be totally on her side like in the other versions. This version made me kind of feel like she turned on her mother to be with the people who have always mistreated her. That's because her mother isn't really mistreating her in this production. Carrie is mistreated by everyone and that needs to be true in this production.
Random thing: looking back Norma had just as much involvement in this production as Chris did in the prank. I walked away blaming Norma as well, but she didn't need a song and didn't have to be overly developed for me to do that, so neither does Chris' character. They need to cut that awful song!
Because this Margaret is so affectionate, it scales down a huge factor, that Carrie is abused by her mother and this has had a serious affect on her. This Margaret loved her daughter so much, that you almost feel bad for her desperation. It made me think "None of this would have happened if Carrie listened to her mother and stayed home" which is true of every incarnation, but I never thought about that until seeing this one. I personally don't want to ever think that after seeing Carrie! Carrie's life is absolutely awful and I feel like I should be totally on her side like in the other versions. This version made me kind of feel like she turned on her mother to be with the people who have always mistreated her. That's because her mother isn't really mistreating her in this production. Carrie is mistreated by everyone and that needs to be true in this production.
Random thing: looking back Norma had just as much involvement in this production as Chris did in the prank. I walked away blaming Norma as well, but she didn't need a song and didn't have to be overly developed for me to do that, so neither does Chris' character. They need to cut that awful song!
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