Sondheim and Ives' HERE WE ARE at The Shed- Page 5

[binau]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 12:28pm

dan94 said: "Thinking back to Sondheim playing the score for CamMac over the phone asking his opinion - it strikes me as odd. It makes me think he was possibly insecure and wanted affirmation before putting so much on the line creating a final show. And it would also make sense that he asked Bernadette and Nathan to be in the room so that he had people he trusted to judge his work.

It's possible they were there not because they were right for either roles they were playing, but they were there as a litmus test, sounding board, and security blanket while he made a final decision to continue or drop the show as he had a few times. (Wasn't Bernadette the Mother in that workshop of Bounce/Road Show in 2006? She'd never have been cast in that role at that point in time in a million years and probably would have served a similar purpose there.)

It's also possible both realized they aren't up to doing the roles 8 times a week. Nathan doesn't do musicals anymore (and outright implied recently he's done with Broadway, and presumably The Shed). Bernadette took a congenial gig that can be molded to her current strengths.

There are a lot of unknowns. Whatever the outcome of this show, it is certain to be a moving night hearing new Sondheim music for a final time."

I think these are good points, although I speculate in the case of Bernadette if it was about trust - was it more about Sondheim wanting a 'friend' he could trust to get the best out of the material and put it in a good light rather than the other way around (i.e. Bernadette providing input or judgement on the material), even if she wasn't the best fit for the role.

The only reason I suggest this is that Bernadette has a reputation for doing what she is told by directors (see: Arthur Laurents' book 'Mainly on Directing' where he describes Bernadette's backstage personality as very non-Diva like, in contrast to people like Patti LuPone who are known for pushing their views more strongly).  

Similarly, Bernadette has described working with Sondheim and offering suggestions that are often politely shutdown by Sondheim who has strong ideas of how he wants his music to be sung. 

So unless Bernadette's personality has changed over the years, I see it less likely that Sondheim was looking for an honest opinion from Bernadette. I'm sure Bernadette would have been supportive of Sondheim no matter what. In fact, maybe THAT could be a strong reason why Sondheim wants to work with Bernadette in this safe environments. In interviews, Sondheim has suggested he can sympathise with people like Richard Rodgers who felt writers block later in life because Sondheim himself now feels it, and he said he didn't enjoy friends criticising his work in 'Passion' and felt their role was to be supportive no matter what. I'm pretty sure Bernadette would be the best person to make Sondheim feel better about his late work!

In any case, I love that we are sitting on a forum speculating about these backstage dynamics in a super niche and specific context. This place is the best! Where else can we do this. No where.

And to completely contradict everything I just said, I guess if Bernadette got Sondheim to turn out "We Do Not Belong Together" and in a way that Sondheim describes as doing justice to the play and not just a diva looking for an extra song (he used the argument that Bernadette was actually offered top billing in Sunday but declined as the show is about George to reiterate she isn't a diva). Maybe he does want her input after all.

Updated On: 5/3/23 at 12:28 PM

[PianoMann]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 2:55pm

I am admittedly a hugely biased fan, but given how close she and Sondheim seemed to get in his later years, I'd love to see Christine Baranski star in this. She has said in interviews that she regrets never having the chance to do Sondheim on Broadway –– that one-night only concert of Night Music at Studio 54 excepted, I guess –– so this could be a step in that direction if Tom Kirdahy has intentions of moving this after The Shed run. I also think she would be perfect for the Ives-Sondheim bourgeois, Americanized Buñuel characters. But perhaps Lane, Peters, etc. are not involved because Mantello and Ives want the characters to skew younger? That's the sense I got from the character descriptions, anyway.

[nativenewyorker2]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 3:00pm

PianoMann said: "I am admittedly a hugely biased fan, but given how close she and Sondheim seemed to get in his later years, I'd love to see Christine Baranski star in this. She has said in interviews that she regrets never having the chance to do Sondheim on Broadway –– that one-night only concert of Night Music at Studio 54 excepted, I guess –– so this could be a step in that direction if Tom Kirdahy has intentions of moving this after The Shed run. I also think she would be perfect for the Ives-Sondheim bourgeois, Americanized Buñuel characters. But perhaps Lane, Peters, etc. are not involved because Mantello and Ives want the characters to skew younger? That's the sense I got from the character descriptions, anyway."

She regretted never doing a Sondheim show on broadway yet turned down the opportunity to replace Lupone in company over a salary dispute

 

[PianoMann]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 3:05pm

nativenewyorker2 said: "She regretted never doing a Sondheim show on broadway yet turned down the opportunity to replace Lupone in company over a salary dispute"

Was it a salary dispute or scheduling? The Good Fight didn't wrap until July 2022 and then she went to work on The Gilded Age the day after. I don't see how it would have been feasible for her to replace LuPone unless the revival planned on running for many more months with LuPone until she was available.

 

[Ke3]

Posted: 5/3/23 at 3:23pm

nativenewyorker2 said: "PianoMann said: "I am admittedly a hugely biased fan, but given how close she and Sondheim seemed to get in his later years, I'd love to see Christine Baranski star in this. She has said in interviews that she regrets never having the chance to do Sondheim on Broadway –– that one-night only concert of Night Music at Studio 54 excepted, I guess –– so this could be a step in that direction if Tom Kirdahy has intentions of moving this after The Shed run. I also think she would be perfect for the Ives-Sondheim bourgeois, Americanized Buñuel characters. But perhaps Lane, Peters, etc. are not involved because Mantello and Ives want the characters to skew younger? That's the sense I got from the character descriptions, anyway."

She regretted never doing a Sondheim show on broadway yet turned down the opportunity to replace Lupone in company over a salary dispute

"

I mean wanting to do something doesn't mean you should let people walk all over you for the opportunity. 

Anyway, I do believe that Sondheim played CamMac the score, because despite how the rest of us feel about him, Sondheim liked him.

I also think it's possible Bernadette and Nathan were there for support. Sondheim was incredibly open about the pressure one feels when you've got so many highly acclaimed works behind you. I mean the biggest criticism of Passion was that it was "lesser" than his other works which really shows how greatness can trap you. Everything must "surpass" what you did before. It will never stand on its own.

[Jesse St. James]

Posted: 5/27/23 at 3:14am

Any word on casting or when tickets will go on sale? I need an update!!!

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/27/23 at 8:55am

Nothing yet - hopefully soon!

[Falsettolands]

Posted: 5/27/23 at 9:57am

I wonder if the cast has to sign some pretty hefty NDA's on keeping the material/details secret

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/27/23 at 10:25am

I’ve also been wondering if we’ll find out soon. The only rumor I’ve seen on Twitter is Denis O’Hare being in it. If true, I’d assume it’s Nathan’s workshop role. 

[BETTY22]

Posted: 5/27/23 at 11:33am

Are they presenting it unfinished? 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 5/27/23 at 7:44pm

BETTY22 said: "Are they presenting it unfinished?"


Yes, actors will simply stop singing or speaking in the areas that were totally unfinished but they’ll sort of speak gibberish in the instance that something was erased or crossed out.

Have to honor the text!

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/5/23 at 9:51pm

Ruthie Ann Miles reveals she was in the workshop. 

prior to his death, she had acted in a workshop of Sondheim’s final musical, Here We Are, which she teases “it's a very different piece."

https://playbill.com/article/ruthie-ann-miles-long-journey-back-to-broadway?fbclid=IwAR1FD8Ngruyp_O7oav6XZuS0q7ubYNyz4j0xWSG1z0OBr6J_JeAA674XVwQ&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 6/5/23 at 11:29pm

TotallyEffed said: "BETTY22 said: "Are they presenting it unfinished?"

Yes, actors will simply stop singing or speaking in the areas that were totally unfinished but they’ll sort of speak gibberish in the instance that something was erased or crossed out.

Have to honor the text!"


If there are crossouts I hope they use the CITY OF ANGELS method of "rewinding" so we can hear both versions of the line.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:13pm

Shouldn’t we be getting a cast announcement soon??

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:22pm

I think people are assuming this will be amazing simply because of Sondheim's involvement. That's not always how it works.  And unless people know The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie and The Exterminating Angel extensively, this may be very confusing for most. 

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:31pm

I don’t think everyone is assuming that, though. Bounce/Road Show had many detractors, although I think that musical’s issues are more with the very bland book rather than the score, which has several gems. I DO think there is A LOT of excitement over “Here We Are” - but I don’t think critics and audiences will be afraid to criticize it. 

[binau]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:33pm

Well, given Sondheim is by far the best composer and lyricist ever in the history of Broadway I don’t think it’s an unfair assumption that his involvement likely means the project might be amazing, lol. 

[Synecdoche2]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:38pm

Hm, it's getting a little late for there to be no information about presale dates or even when performances begin. I wonder if this will end up actually happening...

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:45pm

Throughout his career, it was rather typical for Sondheim shows to get reviews that say things along the lines of "this production and book are awful, but there are some great Sondheim tunes in there!" Anyone Can Whistle, Merrily, even Sunday at first! 

This could be Sondheim's worst score and it would still be better than the vast majority of the non-Sondheim shows in New York this Fall. 

I would say it's a distinct possibility that the show as a whole isn't great. It's such a weird concept and it will be without any musical revisions, which is often where Sondheim was at his best. However, I can confidently say it'll be worth it to stage it and to see it to get another Sondheim score out into the world. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:47pm

ljay889 said: "I don’t think everyone is assuming that, though. Bounce/Road Show had many detractors, although I think that musical’s issues are more with the very bland book rather than the score, which has several gems. I DO think there is A LOT of excitement over “Here We Are” - but I don’t think critics and audiences will be afraid to criticize it."

Good. 

 

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:50pm

jkcohen626 said: "Throughout his career, it was rather typical for Sondheim shows to get reviews that say things along the lines of "this production and book are awful, but there are some great Sondheim tunes in there!" Anyone Can Whistle, Merrily, even Sunday at first!

This could be Sondheim's worst score and it would still be better than the vast majority of the non-Sondheim shows in New York this Fall.

I would say it's a distinct possibility that the show as a whole isn't great. It's such a weird concept and it will be without any musical revisions, which is often where Sondheim was at his best. However, I can confidently say it'll be worth it to stage it and to see it to get another Sondheim score out into the world."


I totally agree with this. I DO think there has to be someone involved who can slightly alter the music, and I’d assume it’s Alex Gemignani, he’s the show’s MD and also a solid musician. Obviously he isn’t going to write new music, but I’d imagine he could make alterations. I’m also assuming minor lyrical alterations could be done by Ives. There’s still so much unknown. 

Updated On: 6/29/23 at 04:50 PM

[steve.sometime]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 4:58pm

Synecdoche2 said: "Hm, it's getting a little late for there to be no information about presale dates or even when performances begin. I wonder if this will end up actually happening..."

Take this with a grain of salt. But if you check the calendar of The Shed, Here We Are is listed from Sep 10 to Dec 30, with 12AM as the time. These are obviously placeholders, but there might be some truth in it: https://theshed.org/calendar?by_week=2023-09-10

[Jesse St. James]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 5:09pm

steve.sometime said: "Synecdoche2 said: "Hm, it's getting a little late for there to be no information about presale dates or even when performances begin. I wonder if this will end up actually happening..."

Take this with a grain of salt. But if you check the calendar of The Shed, Here We Are is listed from Sep 10 to Dec 30, with 12AM as the time. These are obviously placeholders, but there might be some truth in it:https://theshed.org/calendar?by_week=2023-09-10"

I hope they are placeholders because I was hoping to see it in January 

[lapinitsa]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 6:01pm

Synecdoche2 said: "Hm, it's getting a little late for there to be no information about presale dates or even when performances begin. I wonder if this will end up actually happening..."

 

I've been worried about this as well. It's been so quiet for so long.

 

Updated On: 6/29/23 at 06:01 PM

[felixleiter]

Posted: 6/29/23 at 8:12pm

There was some casting happening over the last few weeks.   Big NDA's around it so I'm sure the info is not going to trickle out.