Steven Spielberg's WEST SIDE STORY - News & Discussion Thread- Page 72

[The Other One]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 11:41am

"I guess it’s safe to assume you don’t know what the word EXCLUDING means.  Yikes.  Google, amigo,  Google es tu amigo."

I know what it means very well, which is why I listed the three songs in the film that were not at all dubbed.  And I didn't insult anyone when I did.  It's possible to do that.  Paz, hombre.

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 11:42am

BrodyFosse123 said: "The Other One said: ""Also, everyone in this new version is singing in their own voices whereas, excluding “America”, everyone was dubbed in the 1961 adaptation."

Not exactly. No one is dubbed for America, Cool or Gee, Officer Krupke in the 1961 film."

I guess it’s safe to assume you don’t know what the word EXCLUDING means. Yikes. Google, amigo, Google es tu amigo."

Their response makes perfect sense to me. In addition to "America," which you said wasn't dubbed, they added 2 other undubbed songs to the list. Not rocket science to understand, and definitely not a reason to be a d*ck.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 11:54am

I watched the 1961 film last night and now the Jets come off to me as a group of prep school boys playing at being bad. The Sharks still come off as menacing. 

I also noticed little nuances in the film that I didn't catch on before. Purple is the Shark's unifying color. It's represented in the shirt Bernardo wears to the dance, Anita's dress, even the nightgown Maria wears in the balcony scene. Maria is also surrounded by the color purple when she is singing on the fire escape during the "Quintet". 

 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 1:20pm

Am listening to the new soundtrack CD. It is sublime and I'm even more impressed with Ansel's vocal skills.

[StageJunkie2]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 3:34pm

Totally agree with you. Just caught an IMAX screening and was mesmerized. Being a HUGE fan of the original film, I couldn’t have been more pleased with the cinematic world that Mr. Spielberg has created. Absolutely top notch production: casting, direction, photography…and that choreography! 
 

People will always find SOMETHING to gripe about, but from my humble perspective, I was enthralled with this version and the very smart changes/improvements that were on display. Heresy or not, I prefer this vision to Mr. Wise’s, whose film will always hold a special place in my heart. But truth be told, I cannot wait to see this one again. Bravo!

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 9:14pm

With more movie critics posting their end of the year lists, Metacritic’s aggregate list now has WSS listed in the top 10 (#7) of the year. Great to see! 

https://www.metacritic.com/feature/film-critics-pick-10-best-movies-of-2021

[Musicnut82]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 10:24pm

Has anyone here seen "In The Heights" and "Tick, Tick...Boom" and how do they compare to WSS?

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 10:30pm

Musicnut82 said: "Has anyone here seen "In The Heights" and "Tick, Tick...Boom" and how do they compare to WSS?"

They’re both great, but WSS is just on another level. And I say that as someone who really likes both TTB & ITH. 

[Musicnut82]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 10:36pm

Miles2Go2 said: "Musicnut82 said: "Has anyone here seen "In The Heights" and "Tick, Tick...Boom" and how do they compare to WSS?"

They’re both great, but WSS is just on another level. And I say that as someone who really likes both TTB & ITH."

Thanks for your feedback. I would like to see them both at some point; I am just trying to figure out what chances WSS has against other musicals to get some critical acclaim and most importantly awards. I want for the film to be a success and become a classic. And since it couldn't win the box office game at least win the awards game. I am just worried that its ending, which I personally found underwhelming, might be its achilleas heal. 

 

[bear88]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 11:18pm

It feels unfair to compare them. West Side Story has the advantage of being the most familiar to the most people. Even with the changes, it still has that marvelous score - and the adaptation worked for me overall. It will pick up the most award nominations.

I liked In the Heights, but I didn’t find it as successful adaptation as I hoped. The film’s box office performance may have been unfairly maligned. It outperformed WSS, on its first weekend anyway, even with the disadvantage of being available on HBO Max. And we have seen many ‘blue state’ movies underperform at the box office due to Covid since then. I doubt it will get many nominations, aside from the Golden Globes.

Tick… Tick… BOOM! is a different type of film. Unlike the others, it’s not a big-budget movie with high expectations. Instead, it’s more like an indie film highlighted by a star turn by Andrew Garfield as Jonathan Larson that is most likely to earn a Best Actor nomination. It has an outside chance at Best Picture and has been nominated in various other critics’ and industry awards. Despite a few minor flaws, I liked the film a lot and hope it gets the acclaim I think it deserves.

[babyjunegem]

Posted: 12/14/21 at 11:47pm

Musicnut82 said: "Has anyone here seen "In The Heights" and "Tick, Tick...Boom" and how do they compare to WSS?"

I've seen all three and I'd rank them 1) WSS 2) Tick Tick Boom................3) In the Heights

Box office has nothing to do with this ranking. I'm not a fan of In the Heights the musical itself. Personally, I struggle with sung-thru musicals, and it felt way too long (both the film and the musical). The emotional moments didn't feel earned. The story lacked intimacy, and some of the deviations from the stage show did a disservice to the characters, specifically Nina and Benny.

Loved Anthony Ramos, but felt like pretty much everyone else in the movie could've been recast with more charismatic performers. I would not be surprised if Rachel Zegler was their original pick for Nina, but she declined in order to star in WSS. Hell, Ariana DeBose could've taken Vanessa. In general, it seems like WSS took a lot of the talent that ITH could've had. 

Tick Tick Boom - Not into the Off Broadway musical. I went into this one cold, and I was blown away. Every single cast member pulls their weight, and it's incredibly moving. The emotions are earned. I sat in my car crying for twenty minutes. Lin-Manuel did a fantastic job directing and Andrew was the perfect star. Makes you wonder if LMM should've directed ITH himself.

West Side Story is a masterpiece. The few flaws don't take away from the phenomenal final product. Jerome Robbins' choreography is iconic for a reason. Justin Peck's choreo is nice to watch and would've been mind-blowing in any other movie musical, but it pales in comparison to Robbins. There were a few other small things, but the cast is a knockout for the most part. The cinematography is gorgeous. Every frame could be a photograph. It's truly the best time I've had at the movies in years.

[MagicalMusical]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 2:50am

broadwaybabywannabe2 said: "bear88 said:
One thing I neglected to mention: The direction and cinematography are just gorgeous. The puddle, the rumble location, the physical destruction everywhere, the decision to have Chino and Tony arrive at the same time, the entire “America” sequence, the two shots of Tony and Riff locking eyes."

i too noticed the puddle Tony was standing in when he sang MARIA...the shot from over head looking down at Tony caught the lights reflecting in the puddle...like a stained glass window...shear Spielberg magic!!"

I noticed that, too! It was the most beautiful shot of the film for me! One of the most beautiful shots in any film I have ever seen!

So, I have a problem with the Valentina character in this. Isn't her marriage to Doc kind of like proving Tony and Maria's love can conquer way before the ending? It's like if a Capulet had already married a Montague before the start of Romeo and Juliet and everyone in the play knew about it, dontcha think?

Also, I felt Tony and Maria singing "Somewhere" like in the original 1961 film would have been better because it would have more solidified their romance.

Updated On: 12/15/21 at 02:50 AM

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 8:39am

Thanks for your feedback. I would like to see them both at some point; I am just trying to figure out what chances WSS has against other musicals to get some critical acclaim and most importantly awards. I want for the film to be a success and become a classic. And since it couldn't win the box office game at least win the awards game. I am just worried that its ending, which I personally found underwhelming, might be its achilleas heal.

Based on the Golden Globe and Critic’s Choice Awards nominations, it’s safe to assume WEST SIDE STORY is one of the major films this year getting recognition, that also happens to be a musical.  Only the lead actors of IN THE HEIGHTS and TICK, TICK… BOOM! got any notice whereas WEST SIDE STORY is be recognized for its actors, director, and even for Best Picture.  It’s safe to assume now that it’ll also be getting major Oscar attention as well.  

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 10:59am

Also, I felt Tony and Maria singing "Somewhere" like in the original 1961 film would have been better because it would have more solidified their romance."

I think they should've split the difference and had Tony and Maria join Valentina. Valentina singing the song is poignant and lovely but I agree that I think what invests me in caring about Tony and Maria is them desperately singing "Somewhere" 

It could've been a beautiful trio.

I think what didn't work for me about Somewhere was her sitting at the table singing to no one. For as brilliant directorally most of the movie was that song felt odd and stagey. 

[ElephantLoveMedley]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 11:17am

To the contrary, I thought it was an absolutely brilliant move to give "Somewhere" as a solo to Valentina. When it's sung by Tony and Maria, it's obviously a song of optimism and hope in the midst of tragedy. But sung by Valentina, who starts it after looking at the old picture of her and Doc, it becomes more of a lament and reflective elegy of sorts. Despite Valentina's lifelong hopes and the future she and Doc envisioned not only for themselves but for the community around them, she essentially comes to realize there will never be "peace and quiet and open air." I thought it was a bold and profound choice.

[justoldbill]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 11:44am

STATE FAIR - 1962

SOUTH PACIFIC - 2001

WEST SIDE STORY - 2021

We never learn.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 12:57pm

Musicnut82 said: "Has anyone here seen "In The Heights" and "Tick, Tick...Boom" and how do they compare to WSS?"

 

 

Saw IN THE HEIGHTS and thought it was "meh"--not really bad but lackluster. Choreography looked like an advanced aerobics class. Couldn't compare to WSS.

 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 1:49pm

justoldbill said: "STATE FAIR - 1962

SOUTH PACIFIC - 2001

WEST SIDE STORY - 2021

We never learn."

That you're lumping WSS with those two other remakes is laughable. 

 

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 5:02pm

My problem with In the Heights is they gutted plot and stakes from the show. So it was fun and had really great scenes but it felt like overly long fluff which the show never felt to me when I saw it. 

As a whole it's fine but it's not one of the great movie musicals.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 5:04pm

Bob Lefsetz, who writes a newsletter typically on the music industry, and is generally a curmudgeon, decided to post his two cents on the "failure" of West Side Story. While he is right about the marketing problems, some his takes are truly eye-rolling and extreme. Please send emails to [e-mail].

The Failure Of West Side Story

Blame the movie industry. If you stop making adult films adults fall out of the habit of attending them.

Yes, Hollywood is now for cartoon superheroes. Comedies are too risky, these conglomerates want a guaranteed return. They’re risk averse. Never in the history of the film business has it been less about art.

As for risk-taking, that’s all on the flat screen. Which has increased in quality to the point where it’s a better experience for most people. You’re alone, without the riff-raff talking on their phones, there is no garbage at your feet, the image is pristine on the screen AND THE MOVIE STARTS WHEN YOU WANT IT TO! Never mind being able to pause at will.

We live in an on demand economy. Everything is delivered when you want it. People are acquiring fewer possessions. Kids don’t have driver’s licenses and their parents are happy that their immature bodies are being ferried by Uber. The world changes, Hollywood has not.

Yes, in hindsight those studios that delivered their pix to streaming services day and date are the futurists here, the winners. Forget all the bitching from agencies and talent. First and foremost, scripted entertainment is an ever-decreasing percentage of major talent agencies’ revenue and profitability. They saw the handwriting on the wall, they diversified, but when it comes to movie distribution everything remains the same? Meanwhile, Netflix lays beaucoup bucks at the feet of talent, with little interference, that’s the future, and if you want an ongoing percentage negotiate with them, not the moribund movie studios. It’d be like the music business insisting everybody go back to CDs. The economics changed, because of technology and the public’s desires. The way out was to embrace the future, i.e. Spotify, with its ultimate benefit of endless payment for streamed tracks, the catalog is more valuable than ever before!

So Spielberg is an unknown quantity amongst Generation Z, and amongst a lot of Millennials too. “Jaws” was 46 years ago. “E.T.” 39. And “Jurassic Park” is now a franchise that is not associated with him. Those are Spielberg’s greatest hits, and they’re in the past, but to the aged titans in the film industry he’s a god. That’d be like saying young people love Bad Company and Boston. Sure, there’s an audience, OF AGED PEOPLE!

But Bad Company and Boston weren’t remakes. Imagine a cover album of their tunes today, dead in the water. We see this with tribute albums, they almost universally fail. Doesn’t matter how good they are, people want the original.

So… If you want to promote a film today you don’t do it via reviews. The positive reviews for “West Side Story” were an insider circle jerk. An hermetically sealed system that didn’t reach anybody under the age of forty, and didn’t reach many above that age either.

The promotion should have started on TikTok, forget the critics. The active audience is on TikTok, and TikTok is about dancing, just like “West Side Story”! Youngsters are active, oldsters are passive. To get an oldster off the couch is nearly impossible. An oldster will question the ticket price when a youngster doesn’t think twice, if they want it they do it. So to succeed, “West Side Story” needed to appeal to the younger generation, and on its surface it did not.

All we saw were stories about Rita Moreno. But the last time she’s been in the public eye was “Oz,” about twenty years ago. However talented she might be, kids don’t know her and don’t care. But they could have been sold.

And don’t tell me there’s no market for movie musicals. What about “High School Musical”? If you build it they probably won’t come, if you market it to them there’s a good chance they will.

If you’re marketing to adults you’ve got to make it easy. You’ve got to make it a value proposition. They move slowly and wait for word of mouth. And by time word of mouth gains traction for a movie, the film has left the theatre. The movie business no longer moves at the speed of adults, it’s much faster. Boomers remember when films played for six months. Started in theatres in New York and L.A. and then platformed out across the country over weeks. Today they open in thousands of theatres, make most of their money up front and then disappear, to the flat screen. And that’s so fast that unless you’re truly passionate, you can wait for the appearance on the flat screen. And you don’t want to pay an on demand fee, it must be baked into a service you’re already paying for.

You can rail against the rules, the law, the future, but no one has ever won proceeding on that basis. You can only win by embracing not only the present, but getting ahead of the public. Putting features on streaming services got people in the habit of seeing their films there. To build the service you needed more films. I signed up to see “Hamilton,” with my free account from Verizon for Disney+, but when that was over I was done, there was no further product appealing to me. Disney is a youth company. The era when Michael Eisner took over and they created Touchstone and made “Down and Out in Beverly Hills” is long gone.

Steven Spielberg doing an updated, improved version of “West Side Story”… I ask you, WHO IS WAITING FOR THAT? Spielberg is about action, not gravitas. He’s got no history with music, he’s not Bob Fosse. And despite “Schindler’s List” he’s got little reputation for highbrow. He’s not in the wheelhouse of the aged cognoscenti who go to foreign films in theatres to feel better about themselves, to brag, wearing their attendance as a badge of honor. As a matter of fact, the revered makers of adult films are almost all gone. The hero directors of today…Michael Bay? Christopher Nolan?

“Licorice Pizza” would be culture shifting if it were on HBO, with its imprimatur and hype. Opening in a couple of theatres over the holiday, it’s a minor experience, only elite insiders care. Hell, Netflix did a much better job of hyping “Power of the Dog,” a much more difficult viewing experience, and more people will end up watching it than would have ever seen it on the big screen, and when awards season hits, and it starts just about now, “Power of the Dog” is just a click away, you can make an instant decision, get instant satisfaction, and if you don’t like it, you can immediately turn it off and not feel ripped off.

It’s not like boomers are not invested in higher brow, non-superhero entertainment. Look at “Succession”! This stuff used to be films. Albeit much shorter. “Succession” is better at an extended length.

As for all this hogwash about the theatre experience… It sucks. As for the big screen, it’s like the recording industry talking about the quality of CDs. And now you can stream at CD quality, EVEN BETTER! But people chose convenience over quality. Isn’t this Clayton Christensen 101? The newbie starts cheap and inferior but good enough, gains traction, gets better and kills the old institution.

As for budgets… Talk to record labels about recording budgets. They’re a fraction of what they what once were. Sure, it’s great to be able to spend half a million dollars in an A-level studio creating your opus, but the economics changed and that paradigm has evaporated. As for the youngsters dominating the charts, they have no experience with that era, AND THEY DON’T CARE! They make records in their bedrooms and they top the charts. Everybody’s happy except those who can’t get over the fact their cheese has been moved.

The failure of “West Side Story” should not come as a surprise to the film world. They created the atmosphere where it was doomed. You stop servicing an audience and you expect them to show up on demand, based on brand name? Brand name actors mean less at the box office than ever before. And when it comes to directors, the only one who gains adult notice is Quentin Tarantino, because he always twists the format, delivers something different, unique. As for Scorsese, another insider lauded by the oldsters, he’s a TV director now. And he’d better make better films if he wants youngsters to pay attention, “The Irishman” was a slog, assuming you could get through it.

Yes, today it’s less about image than story, which is what the flat screen has delivered. And isn’t the essence story? Story has taken a back seat too long in Hollywood, but on TV it’s up front and center, where it always must be to ensure a warm reception by the public.

Things changed. It was happening before the pandemic, Covid just accelerated it, put a stake in the heart of the old game. Accept it.
 

Updated On: 12/15/21 at 05:04 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 5:18pm

Well, that was a lot of words.

You want everyone to harass him via e-mail because he wrote an article you don't like? Really hope no one agrees with you that that's a good idea.

I think it's likely Gen Z and Millennials are aware of who Spielberg is. They weren't born yesterday, and lots of his movies are perennials on streaming sites and cables. Some of them probably have to watch Schindler's List in school.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 5:29pm

joevitus said: "You want everyone to harass him via e-mail because he wrote an article you don't like? Really hope no one agrees with you that that's a good idea."

Actually that wasn't the point of providing his email. His newsletter version includes replies back, and he'll often post ones agreeing or disagreeing, as long as they're sane.

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 6:07pm

Wow, Richard Brody really dislikes this film. Obviously, I disagree, but here it is:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/review-steven-spielbergs-west-side-story-remake-is-worse-than-the-original?utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_brand=tny&mbid=social_facebook&fbclid=IwAR3NEhN0F_VbP0Whp4GXY8BgJ0M7YmBWxE92IO_dvmI15lyz5Ommcen9FkY

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 6:43pm

He calls out some good points that I felt were flaws in the movie- but they don't diminish the movie from being wonderful. 

Like I said- both versions we have are flawed. But there's something remarkable about them that will no doubt keep them classics. 

I saw it a second time and I loved it even more. I noticed even more. It has things that will bother me but in the way that there are films I adore with stuff that bothers me. Wonderful works of art don't have to be perfect.

Find me a single movie musical that is perfect. We are always working with a complicated medium transition of musical to film, and so the ones that come out strongest I will always champion and be excited for.

Updated On: 12/15/21 at 06:43 PM

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 6:49pm

The worst movie musicals are so glaring in how they don't work.

The most mixed bag movie musicals aren't terrible but often they just kinda exist and are easily forgettable and pale to the original.

The best movie musicals have a quality where regardless of quibbles they are indispensable. They are loved and dazzling first and foremost and there's a sense of longevity.

This West Side Story is loving and dazzling and will no question become a classic in its own right. 

Updated On: 12/15/21 at 06:49 PM