Steven Spielberg's WEST SIDE STORY - News & Discussion Thread- Page 73

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 7:21pm

rattleNwoolypenguin - agreed. I don’t think any work of art, especially movies can be perfect. They can only be perfect to and for us in that we love them either despite their flaws or love them so much, we don’t see their flaws.  I don’t know anything about the writer of this article, but this feels like clickbate. The title and the article are just so overly negative, it just seems like it was designed to attract curious readers.

[Musicnut82]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 7:42pm

everythingtaboo said: "Bob Lefsetz, who writes a newsletter typically on the music industry, and is generally a curmudgeon, decided to post his two cents on the "failure" of West Side Story. While he is right about the marketing problems, some his takes are truly eye-rolling and extreme. Please send emails [e-mail].

The Failure Of West Side Story

Blame the movie industry. If you stop making adult films adults fall out of the habit of attending them.

Yes, Hollywood is now for cartoon superheroes. Comedies are too risky, these conglomerates want a guaranteed return. They’re risk averse. Never in the history of the film business has it been less about art.

As for risk-taking, that’s all on the flat screen. Which has increased in quality to the point where it’s a better experience for most people. You’re alone, without the riff-raff talking on their phones, there is no garbage at your feet, the image is pristine on the screen AND THE MOVIE STARTS WHEN YOU WANT IT TO! Never mind being able to pause at will.

We live in an on demand economy. Everything is delivered when you want it. People are acquiring fewer possessions. Kids don’t have driver’s licenses and their parents are happy that their immature bodies are being ferried by Uber. The world changes, Hollywood has not.

Yes, in hindsight those studios that delivered their pix to streaming services day and date are the futurists here, the winners. Forget all the bitching from agencies and talent. First and foremost, scripted entertainment is an ever-decreasing percentage of major talent agencies’ revenue and profitability. They saw the handwriting on the wall, they diversified, but when it comes to movie distribution everything remains the same? Meanwhile, Netflix lays beaucoup bucks at the feet of talent, with little interference, that’s the future, and if you want an ongoing percentage negotiate with them, not the moribund movie studios. It’d be like the music business insisting everybody go back to CDs. The economics changed, because of technology and the public’s desires. The way out was to embrace the future, i.e. Spotify, with its ultimate benefit of endless payment for streamed tracks, the catalog is more valuable than ever before!

So Spielberg is an unknown quantity amongst Generation Z, and amongst a lot of Millennials too. “Jaws” was 46 years ago. “E.T.” 39. And “Jurassic Park” is now a franchise that is not associated with him. Those are Spielberg’s greatest hits, and they’re in the past, but to the aged titans in the film industry he’s a god. That’d be like saying young people love Bad Company and Boston. Sure, there’s an audience, OF AGED PEOPLE!

But Bad Company and Boston weren’t remakes. Imagine a cover album of their tunes today, dead in the water. We see this with tribute albums, they almost universally fail. Doesn’t matter how good they are, people want the original.

So… If you want to promote a film today you don’t do it via reviews. The positive reviews for “West Side Story” were an insider circle jerk. An hermetically sealed system that didn’t reach anybody under the age of forty, and didn’t reach many above that age either.

The promotion should have started on TikTok, forget the critics. The active audience is on TikTok, and TikTok is about dancing, just like “West Side Story”! Youngsters are active, oldsters are passive. To get an oldster off the couch is nearly impossible. An oldster will question the ticket price when a youngster doesn’t think twice, if they want it they do it. So to succeed, “West Side Story” needed to appeal to the younger generation, and on its surface it did not.

All we saw were stories about Rita Moreno. But the last time she’s been in the public eye was “Oz,” about twenty years ago. However talented she might be, kids don’t know her and don’t care. But they could have been sold.

And don’t tell me there’s no market for movie musicals. What about “High School Musical”? If you build it they probably won’t come, if you market it to them there’s a good chance they will.

If you’re marketing to adults you’ve got to make it easy. You’ve got to make it a value proposition. They move slowly and wait for word of mouth. And by time word of mouth gains traction for a movie, the film has left the theatre. The movie business no longer moves at the speed of adults, it’s much faster. Boomers remember when films played for six months. Started in theatres in New York and L.A. and then platformed out across the country over weeks. Today they open in thousands of theatres, make most of their money up front and then disappear, to the flat screen. And that’s so fast that unless you’re truly passionate, you can wait for the appearance on the flat screen. And you don’t want to pay an on demand fee, it must be baked into a service you’re already paying for.

You can rail against the rules, the law, the future, but no one has ever won proceeding on that basis. You can only win by embracing not only the present, but getting ahead of the public. Putting features on streaming services got people in the habit of seeing their films there. To build the service you needed more films. I signed up to see “Hamilton,” with my free account from Verizon for Disney+, but when that was over I was done, there was no further product appealing to me. Disney is a youth company. The era when Michael Eisner took over and they created Touchstone and made “Down and Out in Beverly Hills” is long gone.

Steven Spielberg doing an updated, improved version of “West Side Story”… I ask you, WHO IS WAITING FOR THAT? Spielberg is about action, not gravitas. He’s got no history with music, he’s not Bob Fosse. And despite “Schindler’s List” he’s got little reputation for highbrow. He’s not in the wheelhouse of the aged cognoscenti who go to foreign films in theatres to feel better about themselves, to brag, wearing their attendance as a badge of honor. As a matter of fact, the revered makers of adult films are almost all gone. The hero directors of today…Michael Bay? Christopher Nolan?

“Licorice Pizza” would be culture shifting if it were on HBO, with its imprimatur and hype. Opening in a couple of theatres over the holiday, it’s a minor experience, only elite insiders care. Hell, Netflix did a much better job of hyping “Power of the Dog,” a much more difficult viewing experience, and more people will end up watching it than would have ever seen it on the big screen, and when awards season hits, and it starts just about now, “Power of the Dog” is just a click away, you can make an instant decision, get instant satisfaction, and if you don’t like it, you can immediately turn it off and not feel ripped off.

It’s not like boomers are not invested in higher brow, non-superhero entertainment. Look at “Succession”! This stuff used to be films. Albeit much shorter. “Succession” is better at an extended length.

As for all this hogwash about the theatre experience… It sucks. As for the big screen, it’s like the recording industry talking about the quality of CDs. And now you can stream at CD quality, EVEN BETTER! But people chose convenience over quality. Isn’t this Clayton Christensen 101? The newbie starts cheap and inferior but good enough, gains traction, gets better and kills the old institution.

As for budgets… Talk to record labels about recording budgets. They’re a fraction of what they what once were. Sure, it’s great to be able to spend half a million dollars in an A-level studio creating your opus, but the economics changed and that paradigm has evaporated. As for the youngsters dominating the charts, they have no experience with that era, AND THEY DON’T CARE! They make records in their bedrooms and they top the charts. Everybody’s happy except those who can’t get over the fact their cheese has been moved.

The failure of “West Side Story” should not come as a surprise to the film world. They created the atmosphere where it was doomed. You stop servicing an audience and you expect them to show up on demand, based on brand name? Brand name actors mean less at the box office than ever before. And when it comes to directors, the only one who gains adult notice is Quentin Tarantino, because he always twists the format, delivers something different, unique. As for Scorsese, another insider lauded by the oldsters, he’s a TV director now. And he’d better make better films if he wants youngsters to pay attention, “The Irishman” was a slog, assuming you could get through it.

Yes, today it’s less about image than story, which is what the flat screen has delivered. And isn’t the essence story? Story has taken a back seat too long in Hollywood, but on TV it’s up front and center, where it always must be to ensure a warm reception by the public.

Things changed. It was happening before the pandemic, Covid just accelerated it, put a stake in the heart of the old game. Accept it.
"

Brilliant take on the situation hard to argue with the majority of your arguments. Allow me to add one more thing people may find it unpopular here.

 

IMHO it should have also been released on streaming like the rest of the movies. 

 

Now if you ask Spielberg and his peers his reaction will most likely be “No no no!! This is a movie that is made to be experienced on the big screen!” And you know what I couldn’t agree more. I am also one of those people who would refuse to watch this stunning cinematic experience in a 40 inch box in my living room. Give me the biggest screen possible, now!!

 

But how many people think like that nowadays?! We are the minority unfortunately, whether we like it or not. You cannot believe how many comments I have scrolled by on social media platforms (fb, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube) with people saying “I’ll wait till it releases on streaming.” 

Unfortunately whether we like it or not this is how the world of entertainment (music, film) works and you either adapt or die. 

You brought up the CD example in your post, so brilliantly. All the top recording artists in music make most of their money from streaming but at the same time, the also release the CD and the Vinyl version. Vinyl has seen a resurgence the past few years but is still way behind Spotify or Apple Music. You cannot play it old school and say “my music is meant to be experienced on a 180g audiophile vinyl pressing and that’s where I am releasing it only.”

 

Only thing I disagree with you is Tarantino point. Tarantino is one of the most one dimensional, and IMHO overrated, directors in the business. Ever since his first big movie I saw as a teen (Reservoir Dogs) the thematic, aesthetics, style and dialogue is none stop the same in EVERY SINGLE FILM. You can say that OUAIH was slightly different but again the man has a style of his own that has always appealed to younger crowds to this day - shallow/surface like dialogue with swearing and splatter. And within that mix he throws stollen ideas from Asian/Hong Kong snd spaghetti western cinema. He calls it “homage”. 

Updated On: 12/15/21 at 07:42 PM

[Musicnut82]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 7:51pm

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "The worst movie musicals are so glaring in how they don't work.

The most mixed bag movie musicals aren't terrible but often they just kinda exist and are easily forgettable and pale to the original.

The best movie musicals have a quality where regardless of quibbles they are indispensable. They are loved and dazzling first and foremost and there's a sense of longevity.

This West Side Story is loving and dazzling and will no question become a classic in its own right."

I don’t know whether this version of WSS will join the other as another classic or fade through the years to obscurity (as a poor attempt), I hope not.

What is NOT going to fade is it’s soundtrack.

You can call me a blasphemer but ever since I started listening to this score by Dudamel and NY Philharmonic Orchestra I CANNOT put it down. And doubtful I will listen to the old version ever again, which btw was a huge part of my childhood. That’s how much more I love the new version!!!

I know I know, controversial opinion.

can’t wait till it comes out on vinyl!!!

[Globefan]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 9:44pm

I'd love a novelization of the film that incorporates Tony Kushner's backstories for all the characters. Not just a novelization of what we saw on screen. 

[sparksatmidnight]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 11:05pm

This made for such a lovely summer evening out and I'm so glad I'm alive at the same time this was out in theatres. Too bad I only saw it today and another comic book movie overtook the theatres near me. Surely we don't need the same movie in 5 different theatres in a single complex?

 

I know some songs were sung live in the movie - do any of you know if these live versions were also included in the soundtrack or if the soundtrack uses the studio recordings?

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/15/21 at 11:19pm

Musicnut82 said: "rattleNwoolypenguin said: "The worst movie musicals are so glaring in how they don't work.

The most mixed bag movie musicals aren't terrible but often they just kinda exist and are easily forgettable and pale to the original.

The best movie musicals have a quality where regardless of quibbles they are indispensable. They are loved and dazzling first and foremost and there's a sense of longevity.

This West Side Story is loving and dazzling and will no question become a classic in its own right."

I don’t know whether this version of WSS will join the other as another classic or fade through the years to obscurity (as a poor attempt), I hope not.

What is NOT going to fade is it’s soundtrack.

You can call me a blasphemer but ever since I started listening to this score by Dudamel and NY Philharmonic Orchestra I CANNOT put it down. And doubtful I will listen to the old version ever again, which btw was a huge part of my childhood. That’s how much more I love the new version!!!

I know I know, controversial opinion.

can’t wait till it comes out on vinyl!!!"

I agree with you on the soundtrack. My favorite track is that expanded “Mambo” it is just fvcking killer….and i get chills once that trumpet comes in and starts going crazy hitting all those notes….it just ON FIRE!!!

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 12:41am

Ariana DeBose on The Late Late Show With James Corden tonight. Also, RuPaul is on. 

Updated On: 12/16/21 at 12:41 AM

[MagicalMusical]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 2:35am

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "Also, I felt Tony and Maria singing "Somewhere" like in the original 1961 film would have been better because it would have more solidified their romance."

I think they should've split the difference and had Tony and Maria join Valentina. Valentina singing the song is poignant and lovely but I agree that I think what invests me in caring about Tony and Maria is them desperately singing "Somewhere"

It could've been a beautiful trio.

I think what didn't work for me about Somewhere was her sitting at the table singing to no one. For as brilliant directorally most of the movie was that song felt odd and stagey."

You know, I like that idea of the trio singing. I just wonder if it would take the intimacy away from Tony and Maria's moment.

[SpiritualGangster]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 1:18pm

I went again last night to see this and sat in a nearly empty house. It is really saddening to see the almost complete disinterest of the general public to see this because it really is one of the best films of the year. 

It has a 45 day window in theaters but I fear that if lackluster business continues it will be pulled sooner than that. 

 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 2:51pm

SpiritualGangster said: "I went again last night to see this and sat in a nearly empty house. It is really saddening to see the almost complete disinterest of the general public to see this because it really is one of the best films of the year.

It has a 45 day window in theaters but I fear that if lackluster business continues it will be pulled sooner than that."

The studio made contract arrangements already with movie theatres so WEST SIDE STORY will remain in theatres regardless of the standard protocol of removing films under performing at the box office.  It’s unlikely it’ll be streaming on HBO Max on the regular 45 day window.  

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 3:43pm

Musicnut82 said: "everythingtaboo said: "Bob Lefsetz, who writes a newsletter typically on the music industry, and is generally a curmudgeon, decided to post his two cents on the "failure" of West Side Story. While he is right about the marketing problems, some his takes are truly eye-rolling and extreme. Please send emails [e-mail].

The Failure Of West Side Story

Blame the movie industry. If you stop making adult films adults fall out of the habit of attending them.

Yes, Hollywood is now for cartoon superheroes. Comedies are too risky, these conglomerates want a guaranteed return. They’re risk averse. Never in the history of the film business has it been less about art.

As for risk-taking, that’s all on the flat screen. Which has increased in quality to the point where it’s a better experience for most people. You’re alone, without the riff-raff talking on their phones, there is no garbage at your feet, the image is pristine on the screen AND THE MOVIE STARTS WHEN YOU WANT IT TO! Never mind being able to pause at will.

We live in an on demand economy. Everything is delivered when you want it. People are acquiring fewer possessions. Kids don’t have driver’s licenses and their parents are happy that their immature bodies are being ferried by Uber. The world changes, Hollywood has not.

Yes, in hindsight those studios that delivered their pix to streaming services day and date are the futurists here, the winners. Forget all the bitching from agencies and talent. First and foremost, scripted entertainment is an ever-decreasing percentage of major talent agencies’ revenue and profitability. They saw the handwriting on the wall, they diversified, but when it comes to movie distribution everything remains the same? Meanwhile, Netflix lays beaucoup bucks at the feet of talent, with little interference, that’s the future, and if you want an ongoing percentage negotiate with them, not the moribund movie studios. It’d be like the music business insisting everybody go back to CDs. The economics changed, because of technology and the public’s desires. The way out was to embrace the future, i.e. Spotify, with its ultimate benefit of endless payment for streamed tracks, the catalog is more valuable than ever before!

So Spielberg is an unknown quantity amongst Generation Z, and amongst a lot of Millennials too. “Jaws” was 46 years ago. “E.T.” 39. And “Jurassic Park” is now a franchise that is not associated with him. Those are Spielberg’s greatest hits, and they’re in the past, but to the aged titans in the film industry he’s a god. That’d be like saying young people love Bad Company and Boston. Sure, there’s an audience, OF AGED PEOPLE!

But Bad Company and Boston weren’t remakes. Imagine a cover album of their tunes today, dead in the water. We see this with tribute albums, they almost universally fail. Doesn’t matter how good they are, people want the original.

So… If you want to promote a film today you don’t do it via reviews. The positive reviews for “West Side Story” were an insider circle jerk. An hermetically sealed system that didn’t reach anybody under the age of forty, and didn’t reach many above that age either.

The promotion should have started on TikTok, forget the critics. The active audience is on TikTok, and TikTok is about dancing, just like “West Side Story”! Youngsters are active, oldsters are passive. To get an oldster off the couch is nearly impossible. An oldster will question the ticket price when a youngster doesn’t think twice, if they want it they do it. So to succeed, “West Side Story” needed to appeal to the younger generation, and on its surface it did not.

All we saw were stories about Rita Moreno. But the last time she’s been in the public eye was “Oz,” about twenty years ago. However talented she might be, kids don’t know her and don’t care. But they could have been sold.

And don’t tell me there’s no market for movie musicals. What about “High School Musical”? If you build it they probably won’t come, if you market it to them there’s a good chance they will.

If you’re marketing to adults you’ve got to make it easy. You’ve got to make it a value proposition. They move slowly and wait for word of mouth. And by time word of mouth gains traction for a movie, the film has left the theatre. The movie business no longer moves at the speed of adults, it’s much faster. Boomers remember when films played for six months. Started in theatres in New York and L.A. and then platformed out across the country over weeks. Today they open in thousands of theatres, make most of their money up front and then disappear, to the flat screen. And that’s so fast that unless you’re truly passionate, you can wait for the appearance on the flat screen. And you don’t want to pay an on demand fee, it must be baked into a service you’re already paying for.

You can rail against the rules, the law, the future, but no one has ever won proceeding on that basis. You can only win by embracing not only the present, but getting ahead of the public. Putting features on streaming services got people in the habit of seeing their films there. To build the service you needed more films. I signed up to see “Hamilton,” with my free account from Verizon for Disney+, but when that was over I was done, there was no further product appealing to me. Disney is a youth company. The era when Michael Eisner took over and they created Touchstone and made “Down and Out in Beverly Hills” is long gone.

Steven Spielberg doing an updated, improved version of “West Side Story”… I ask you, WHO IS WAITING FOR THAT? Spielberg is about action, not gravitas. He’s got no history with music, he’s not Bob Fosse. And despite “Schindler’s List” he’s got little reputation for highbrow. He’s not in the wheelhouse of the aged cognoscenti who go to foreign films in theatres to feel better about themselves, to brag, wearing their attendance as a badge of honor. As a matter of fact, the revered makers of adult films are almost all gone. The hero directors of today…Michael Bay? Christopher Nolan?

“Licorice Pizza” would be culture shifting if it were on HBO, with its imprimatur and hype. Opening in a couple of theatres over the holiday, it’s a minor experience, only elite insiders care. Hell, Netflix did a much better job of hyping “Power of the Dog,” a much more difficult viewing experience, and more people will end up watching it than would have ever seen it on the big screen, and when awards season hits, and it starts just about now, “Power of the Dog” is just a click away, you can make an instant decision, get instant satisfaction, and if you don’t like it, you can immediately turn it off and not feel ripped off.

It’s not like boomers are not invested in higher brow, non-superhero entertainment. Look at “Succession”! This stuff used to be films. Albeit much shorter. “Succession” is better at an extended length.

As for all this hogwash about the theatre experience… It sucks. As for the big screen, it’s like the recording industry talking about the quality of CDs. And now you can stream at CD quality, EVEN BETTER! But people chose convenience over quality. Isn’t this Clayton Christensen 101? The newbie starts cheap and inferior but good enough, gains traction, gets better and kills the old institution.

As for budgets… Talk to record labels about recording budgets. They’re a fraction of what they what once were. Sure, it’s great to be able to spend half a million dollars in an A-level studio creating your opus, but the economics changed and that paradigm has evaporated. As for the youngsters dominating the charts, they have no experience with that era, AND THEY DON’T CARE! They make records in their bedrooms and they top the charts. Everybody’s happy except those who can’t get over the fact their cheese has been moved.

The failure of “West Side Story” should not come as a surprise to the film world. They created the atmosphere where it was doomed. You stop servicing an audience and you expect them to show up on demand, based on brand name? Brand name actors mean less at the box office than ever before. And when it comes to directors, the only one who gains adult notice is Quentin Tarantino, because he always twists the format, delivers something different, unique. As for Scorsese, another insider lauded by the oldsters, he’s a TV director now. And he’d better make better films if he wants youngsters to pay attention, “The Irishman” was a slog, assuming you could get through it.

Yes, today it’s less about image than story, which is what the flat screen has delivered. And isn’t the essence story? Story has taken a back seat too long in Hollywood, but on TV it’s up front and center, where it always must be to ensure a warm reception by the public.

Things changed. It was happening before the pandemic, Covid just accelerated it, put a stake in the heart of the old game. Accept it.
"

Brilliant take on the situation hard to argue with the majority of your arguments. Allow me to add one more thing people may find it unpopular here.



IMHO it should have also been released on streaming like the rest of the movies.



Now if you ask Spielberg and his peers his reaction will most likely be “No no no!! This is a movie that is made to be experienced on the big screen!” And you know what I couldn’t agree more. I am also one of those people who would refuse to watch this stunning cinematic experience in a 40 inch box in my living room. Give me the biggest screen possible, now!!



But how many people think like that nowadays?! We are the minority unfortunately, whether we like it or not. You cannot believe how many comments I have scrolled by on social media platforms (fb, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube) with people saying “I’ll wait till it releases on streaming.”

Unfortunately whether we like it or not this is how the world of entertainment (music, film) works and you either adapt or die.

You brought up the CD example in your post, so brilliantly. All the top recording artists in music make most of their money from streaming but at the same time, the also release the CD and the Vinyl version. Vinyl has seen a resurgence the past few years but is still way behind Spotify or Apple Music. You cannot play it old school and say “my music is meant to be experienced on a 180g audiophile vinyl pressing and that’s where I am releasing it only.”



Only thing I disagree with you is Tarantino point. Tarantino is one of the most one dimensional, and IMHO overrated, directors in the business. Ever since his first big movie I saw as a teen (Reservoir Dogs) the thematic, aesthetics, style and dialogue is none stop the same in EVERY SINGLE FILM. You can say that OUAIH was slightly different but again the man has a style of his own that has always appealed to younger crowds to this day - shallow/surface like dialogue with swearing and splatter. And within that mix he throws stollen ideas from Asian/Hong Kong snd spaghetti western cinema. He calls it “homage”."

I agree with most of this and find the candor refreshing. He’s not sugarcoating the dilemma. As someone who gravitates toward dramas and period pieces, they almost never get a showing at a multiplex. One of the most lauded films of the year, “Mass” hasn’t had one showing in my area. I’ve actually called local theatre managers asking them to play it instead of five screens of the same action flick. It’s fallen on deaf ears. 
 

I now have a 65 inch 4K oled TV. It beats the Regal throwing a DVD into their player. It definitely works great for dramas. 
 

Also moviegoers have gotten so disgusting and disrespectful why would I want to go to a theatre? They spread out in recliners like slobs, take off their shoes, text, talk and eat like boars. No thank you. 
 

I still patronage the smaller art houses where patrons have some dignity left, but multiplexes, nope. 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 3:50pm

In 2011, I first saw Mike Faist play Morris in ''Newsies'' at Paper Mill Playhouse. A decade later, it's exciting to see him get his big break in movies.

One of my favorite moments in Steven Spielberg's ''West Side Story'' is the ''Cool'' reimagined dance between Tony and Riff and his Jets.

So far, the critics groups from Chicago, Phoenix and Portland have nominated Faist for Supporting Actor. I hope Oscar voters notice him, too.

Here's Indiewire's profile of how Faist gives his own Riff on 'West Side Story'

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/12/west-side-story-mike-faist-riff-1234685450/

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 4:02pm

Also moviegoers have gotten so disgusting and disrespectful why would I want to go to a theatre? They spread out in recliners like slobs, take off their shoes, text, talk and eat like boars. No thank you.

Hahaha.  That was pre-pandemic.  Movie theatres aren’t packed now and it’s rare to have 6 people in a row of seats.  That’s why I’m enjoying going to the movies now AND regularly.  Everyone there wants to be there so gone are those horrible scenarios you just described.  I’m sure once things return to normal, it probably will be years until I go to a movie theatre again.  Right now it’s a glorious intimate joy seeing a film in a huge movie theatre screen.  

[A Director]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 4:53pm

Here's an interesting article about Anybodys.

https://slate.com/culture/2021/12/west-side-story-anybodys-2021-movie-trans.html

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 5:23pm

I understand people wanting this to perform better, but---what did you expect? Musicals aren't huge hits these days, and generally the ones that are, are fluff (Chicago is an exception, but Chicago was 20 years ago). West Side Story is a serious work of art. It has a downbeat ending. Even the original Broadway production lost money (and some of the revivals did, too). Not to mention trying to convince the average movie audience that dancers are tough, dangerous street kids is even harder now than it was in 1961. This movie was always going to be a very hard sell, despite the quality of the material, and Spielberg's track record.

[Globefan]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 5:32pm

The movie made it onto Obama's movie list for 2021 

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 7:15pm

I finally saw the film today. I was one of three souls in my screening, but the cinema seemed pretty crowded with people going to other things. Overall, I just thought it was fine. Beautifully shot and performed, but I’ve just never been that into West Side Story. The numbers I always like, I liked. The numbers that always bore me (mainly the various Jet songs) still bored me. I also think I have a hard time getting on board with any version of WSS/Romeo and Juliet because I never get past the fact that the central couple just met. It’s too hard for me to feel invested in their love, especially in a film where my suspension of disbelief is lessened. Similarly, I don’t think I can ever get on board with these gangsters doing ballet on film. It just pulls me out. Onstage, it’s another story. Still, I found it to be much more watchable than the original film, which I feel on the whole doesn’t really hold up. My only criticism of the adaptation was that the scenes between songs were way too long. This isn’t a story that benefits from giving the audience time to stop and think.

[A Director]

Posted: 12/16/21 at 7:32pm

joevitus said: "I understand people wanting this to perform better, but---what did you expect? Musicals aren't huge hits these days, and generally the ones that are, are fluff (Chicago is an exception, but Chicago was 20 years ago). West Side Story is a serious work of art. It has a downbeat ending. Even the original Broadway production lost money (and some of the revivals did, too). Not to mention trying to convince the average movie audience that dancers are tough, dangerous street kids is even harder now than it was in 1961. This movie was always going to be a very hard sell, despite the quality of the material, and Spielberg's track record."

Have you seen the 2021 movie? Both gangs are scary and dangerous. Justin Peck's choreography echos Robbins, from time to time, but most of thee time, it does not.

 

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/17/21 at 1:33am

A Director said: "joevitus said: "I understand people wanting this to perform better, but---what did you expect? Musicals aren't huge hits these days, and generally the ones that are, are fluff (Chicago is an exception, but Chicago was 20 years ago). West Side Story is a serious work of art. It has a downbeat ending. Even the original Broadway production lost money (and some of the revivals did, too). Not to mention trying to convince the average movie audience that dancers are tough, dangerous street kids is even harder now than it was in 1961. This movie was always going to be a very hard sell, despite the quality of the material, and Spielberg's track record."

Have you seen the 2021 movie? Both gangs are scary and dangerous. Justin Peck's choreography echos Robbins, from time to time, but most of thee time, it does not.

"

You totally missed what I was saying.

[BWNUT]

Posted: 12/17/21 at 7:31am

I notice theaters near me adding showtimes. Is word of mouth starting to kick in? 

[BJR]

Posted: 12/17/21 at 9:59am

I was hoping this could have legs, especially since everyone I know that has seen it has been raving.

But now, there's so much Omicron panic, I don't see the target demo returning to the theater for this.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/17/21 at 10:51am

It looks amazing on a big screen, but it was way too early to release this as an in-theaters-only thing.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 12/17/21 at 11:18am

Ben Affleck's interview with Howard Stern (which got some publicity this week for some comments taken out of context in a salacious and reductive manner) should be listened to because he had some really incredible insight into the film business as it is today. He basically says the movie theatre experience is for kids you want to get out of the house, and for the Marvel and other IP movies out there. He says most people want the option to pause and take a leak, continue another time, etc. and TV's are getting so much better quality, that he expects movies like West Side Story to do really well on streaming, where the business is changing and people are actually watching more content than they every did before.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 12/17/21 at 11:59am

everythingtaboo said: "Ben Affleck's interview with Howard Stern (which got some publicity this week for some comments taken out of context in a salacious and reductive manner) should be listened to because he had some really incredible insight into the film business as it is today. He basically says the movie theatre experience is for kids you want to get out of the house, and for the Marvel and other IP movies out there. He says most people want the option to pause and take a leak, continue another time, etc. and TV's are getting so much better quality, that he expects movies like West Side Story to do really well on streaming, where the business is changing and people are actually watching more content than they every did before."

This is just so sadly spot on. The majority of people going to movies are kids. 

If Netflix gets ahold of West Side Story it will sail to top 10 easily. That to me is the rubric of something doing great on streaming is that Top 10 in the country list.

[mailhandler777]

Posted: 12/17/21 at 12:24pm

A Director said: "Here's an interesting article about Anybodys.

https://slate.com/culture/2021/12/west-side-story-anybodys-2021-movie-trans.html"

The most in depth one so far with iris's perspective on the role. Love hearing hir take on it.

Also that everyone involved supported hir and did their own work learning about trans non-binary people unlike Jagged did.