Sunset boulevard movie 2020- Page 3

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 4:39pm

ChgoTheatreGuy said: "Part of what made Gloria Swanson's performance in the film so amazing was that she had performed in silent films and that made it all the more effective. Studying the artform and actually having done it are two completely different things. Lupone choosing not to even consider it makes everything more about just herself. She didn't study the history of burlesque, but acquited herself just fine in "Gypsy"...

"

Do you mean Glenn Close choosing to study silent film to understand the gestures Norma talks about is "making it more about herself?" If so, then I disagree and I think it's a great thing she did. It's not Close's fault that she was born in a certain timeline where she never made silent films so she couldn't bring the real life experience Swanson had (which was invaluable). And the role of Mama Rose as written doesn't require the actress to know about the history of burlesque as she had no history in burlesque until they walked into that theatre that changed the course for Louise.

[Tag]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 5:30pm

Part of what made Gloria Swanson's performance in the film so amazing was that she had performed in silent films and that made it all the more effective.  Studying the artform and actually having done it are two completely different things. 

Interesting that you mention that.  Close was just asked in the press room after the Golden Globes, if she had studied silent films to prep for The Wife.  She replied no, but that playing Norma had helped.

Updated On: 1/9/19 at 05:30 PM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 8:03pm

Lot666 said: "I HATE when they convert song lyrics to spoken dialogue!"

I hate it when they apologize for the artform in general. Such as speaking 4 words and use a long vibrato on the 5th (The les Mis movie is full of this).

This idea that "toning it down/speak singing/separating the acting from singing" makes it more real should be thrown out of the window. It actually makes it feel more fake because the half-assed singing ruins the acting performance. Acting out every word on top of the melody makes it feel like a parody. The material is already written like that for a reason. Giving every word the weight of the lyric + melody + acting out every word on top of that is too much.

"Natural" in this artform is the opposite of what some filmmakers think.

 

Updated On: 1/8/19 at 08:03 PM

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 8:54pm

JSquared2 said: "Bettyboy72 I think Jackman would make good international box office, which is what investors will want. I also wouldn't be surprised if Gaga shows us as Betty as her and Glenn's mother are best friends.


Glenn Close's mother died in 2015 --- I seriously doubt that she and Lady Gaga are "best friends".

https://people.com/celebrity/glenn-closes-mother-bettine-moore-close-has-died/

Sorry I typed that incorrectly. I meant Glenn and Gaga’s mother are good friends. Glenn has told stories of their adventures on talk shows. 

 

[chernjam]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 9:15pm

I was surprised to see the headline that Close was "confirming" it and fueling speculation of a 2020 release.  That would seem a huge turnaround since there's not been any official announcement of a script, director, etc. 

As those who know me on this board can attest - I love this musical... have listened to the score easily thousands of times since I first purchased the World Premiere Recording.  And the Broadway revival, while pared down from the original, with that phenomenal 40 piece orchestra and a stellar cast lead by Close who surpassed any of my imaginations of how she would've been able to hold up all these years later vocally was magical.  

I still think preserving a live stage performance (perhaps with the original Napier sets) and using the opportunity of filming to do things you couldn't do on stage would be the best way to go.  Would hate if they de-musicalized any of the score (and was curious in the interview where the reporter asked Close if ALW would write a new song - if he did, I'd suggest tackling the finale -)

Oh - and to those bringing up the line "there's nothing wrong with being 50" - I think in the World Premiere it had been switched to "There's nothing wrong with being your age"  to make it a bit more general and not so age specific.   Don't remember if they went with that alternative line in the revival or not.  Lot666 might remember better than I do.

[jo]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 10:05pm

Billy Wilder's film noir classic SUNSET BOULEVARD is one of the most admired movies, despite its critique of the Hollywood system.

The video release is a keepsake and makes a good basis for judging whether the musicalized version by ALWebber ( with approval by Billy Wilder) comes close to the dramatic appeal of the movie.

In this excellent commentary on the movie itself, one gets a glimpse of the way the movie classic is both a testament against the Hollywood machine but also a testament to the art of filmmaking.  I wouldn't mind if what they simply remade is the film noir classic itself ( which can broaden the casting choices). It gives us a closer glimpse of the characters of Joe Gillis and the woman who unexpectedly enters his life while continuing to live in the past.   I think what attracted me to the stage musical  is the drama that the composer tried to translate into a musical theatre gift. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gbknao5D-U

I would be sorry to see if the casting of the musical version laid more emphasis on the singing than in the very essence of the dramatic aspects - it has to be an acting masterpiece where singing complements the acting choices! Glenn Close, in that respect, would be excellent in the role of Norma Desmond! Equally important would be the casting of Joe, not simply as an adjunct to the telling of the story of Norma... but a man not just caught in the sad testament of the Hollywood system  ( exemplified by the character of Norma) but someone whose conflict about his own artform ( writing) is another key issue in this story of Hollywood!  Excellent acting not just boyish looks or excellent vocals!  William Holden himself was given first billing over Gloria Swanson in Billy Wilder's film classic.

 

Updated On: 1/8/19 at 10:05 PM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 7:41am

chernjam said: "I still think preserving a live stage performance (perhaps with the original Napier sets) and using the opportunity of filming to do things you couldn't do on stage would be the best way to go. Would hate if they de-musicalized any of the score."

I agree, or something in between. This artform, this language is per definition not literal. It is about sung thoughts. About sung notes that are either acting or telling a story that's purely going on in a character's mind (sung thoughts). This is non-literal because in normal life (what film dialogue usually represents) people would never do this. Therefore it is important that the world that is created is non-literal too. Movies that understood this very well are Moulin Rouge, Chicago and Evita. They understand the difference between dialogue and sung thoughts very well. Some scenes take place in undefined spaces (I call them 'spaces of thought', ) because the scene asks for it. It is important to take the audience on the journey of the sung thought. Not literal. The sung thoughts should not only be embraced, but taken to the next level, far, far away from literal reality. A movie that completely missed this point is Les Miserables. I wouldn't even call that a movie because it is a stage performance on a literal street, but then with the worst of both worlds. Bad singing, bad filmmaking and it results in bad acting and a bad performance overall, no understanding of the difference between both worlds in storytelling, wrong pace, wrong angles and zero illusion of sung thoughts, the essence of this artform.

jo said: "Billy Wilder's film noir classic SUNSET BOULEVARD is one of the most admired movies, despite its critique of the Hollywood system.

I think what attracted me to the stage musical is the drama that the composer tried to translate into a musical theatre gift.

I would be sorry to see if the casting of the musical version laid more emphasis on the singing than in the very essence of the dramatic aspects - it has to be an acting masterpiece where singing complements the acting choices! Glenn Close, in that respect, would be excellent in the role of Norma Desmond! "

I agree it has to be an acting masterpiece. But this is a different language, a different ballpark. There already is a film in spoken language, the original film. Truthful acting through song (and not in spite of song, as in the Les Mis film), is a very specific language. Singing only complements an acting choice if the choice does not apologize for the singing (every choice Hugh Jackman makes). It makes the singing performance insincere and therefore harms the acting performance. It becomes a parody, which is too literal/too much like real life, which will never work because the arftorm per definition is not. 

This artform on film should use all the magic of filmic editing and creating a certain distance between literal life and sung thoughts. It's not even necessary to see the characters mouthing all the words of the sung thoughts.

Glenn Close has never been able to connect these things, she always separates the singing from the acting, which will never work on film. This film will only be an acting masterpiece when we hear a Norma who knows how to paint with her voice in an extremely subtle way. In "with one look" the first time the line "with one look you know, all you need to know", I need to hear a light head voice, and the line has to have 3 different colors in emotion, first trying to convince Joe with "with one look you know" (dialogue), then the "all" has to be so light that you can see Norma turning into that young girl again, in her mind (sung thought), and then the "need to know" convincing herself even more, getting ready for the next verse. Debra Byrne masters this acting very well. Glen Close just throws out the line in a hoarse, unnuanced, loud way without any acting through song. She acts in spite of song.

Updated On: 1/9/19 at 07:41 AM

[jo]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 10:50am

Interesting article from The Independent ( UK) in 1993 when the musical had undergone some changes and was to be reintroduced.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/walking-into-the-sunset-when-andrew-lloyd-webber-took-sunset-boulevard-to-norma-desmonds-backyard-1466848.html

"Strikingly believable as a former silent star, not least because her singing voice does not create the contradictory impression of a youthful diva, Glenn Close and her example should teach the producers that when it comes to casting a new Norma, you need someone who is primarily a formidable actress."

Updated On: 1/9/19 at 10:50 AM

[jo]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 11:04am

Even more interesting is this interview of Billy Wilder by the LA Times when Sunset Boulevard was just about to open, including his reactions to the stage adaptation  --

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-27/entertainment/ca-7585_1_sunset-boulevard

[Lot666]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 11:11am

chernjam said: "to those bringing up the line "there's nothing wrong with being 50" - I think in the World Premiere it had been switched to "There's nothing wrong with being your age" to make it a bit more general and not so age specific. Don't remember if they went with that alternative line in the revival or not. Lot666 might remember better than I do."

I believe Michael Xavier delivered the original, i.e., "There's nothing wrong with being 50...unless you're acting 20!".

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 11:17am

Lot666 said: "chernjam said: "to those bringing up the line "there's nothing wrong with being 50" - I think in the World Premiere it had been switched to "There's nothing wrong with being your age" to make it a bit more general and not so age specific. Don't remember if they went with that alternative line in the revival or not. Lot666 might remember better than I do."

I believe Michael Xavier delivered the original, i.e., "There's nothing wrong with being 50...unless you're acting 20!"."

He did, I just checked on YouTube. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 6:27pm

jo said: "when it comes to casting a new Norma, you need someone who is primarily a formidable actress.""

An acting performance of acting through song will only be formidable if the artist is great at both singing and knows how to tone down the the level of drama in acting (over-emoting) through the singing. This language has nothing to do with spoken acting. In fact, acting out each word on top of the melody is too much. The material is already written in a way where the notes itself and the combination of notes (melody) already evokes a dramatic reaction, like an actor. Treating each word like a spoken intention on top of that makes it a parody. (Les Miserables). It gets extremely tiresome and it basically is apologizing for the artform. Trying to act in spite of song. That will never be formidable.

Updated On: 1/9/19 at 06:27 PM

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 6:48pm

When I heard the first two songs this show on Barbra Streisand's "Back to Broadway" CD, I thought that her performance of the songs convinced me that this film could be made into a musical.  They were both very good at translating the emotions of Norma Desmond in the movie.  Going back to when I first saw the show when it opened on Broadway, I thought that Glenn Close's interpretations were less than successful.  I hope that whoever they find to direct this film can push her to not only do what she did on stage in both incarnations, but expand and enlarge her performance to make it iconic...

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 9:09pm

When asked if there was anything else she was dreaming of doing, Glenn said this - days after claiming that she hopes to start shooting this year:

“Im dreaming about making the movie version of the musical Sunset Boulevard, and I have great hope and belief that that will happen. Because that character is one of the great characters ever written for a woman, and Ive done her now 30 years apart on stage, and to play Norma Desmond one more time. The fascination for me is how do you translate in a musical, a song which is basically an internal monologue, how do you do that seamlessly on film? Im fascinated by the challenge of it. And Im really believing, Im willing it to happen. I think it will.”

https://deadline.com/2019/01/glenn-close-metoo-the-wife-interview-sunset-boulevard-film-1202532369/

Ugh. I knew her quote from the night of the Globes sounded too good to be true.

Updated On: 1/9/19 at 09:09 PM

[jo]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 9:26pm

I've just read that, too.

It doesn't sound as definitive as what she shared in that interview at the Golden Globes event.

Looking back, it seems that the first news that Paramount was thinking of the stage adaptation as a potential film project was last August 2017.  And nothing has been officially announced by Paramount as of now 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 9:29pm

If they ever do make this movie -- and I am personally very skeptical...tI fear that his is Close's Gypsy remake -- Glenn Close will be magnificent.  She has proven that she can do subtle and over the top equally effectively.  As long as they effectively address the age issue, I don't think that will be a problem (unlike with Gypsy, in which at the very least they'd have to change her to (great?) grandma Rose, given how young the kids are in the early scenes.

I am skeptical, partially because Close is only getting older, heck it is already 18 months since the last production closed on Broadway, so all that 'energy / good will' is lost.  

That said: I suspect there are three pre-requisites for this to ever happen, at least with Close: (1) Close has to win the Oscar and get lots of publicity; (2) they have to figure out how to make it as 'on the cheap' as they can, maybe with a lot of the key participants taking modest upfront salaries, with hopes of big back-end dollars if it is successful; and (3) they need to come up with a Joe Gillis who will attract an audience -- just like William Holden did --  if there is anyone (we know Jake G can sing, but he really has proven thus far to be more talented than potent at the movie box-office; interestingly, I think the considerably-younger-than-Close Hugh Jackman is more 'too old' for Joe than Close is for Norma.  Zac Efron may attract a younger audience, particularly after Showman, but there would be a real 'yuk' factor to deal with in his romancing of Close.  Can Christian Bale sing?  Only kidding.

Updated On: 1/9/19 at 09:29 PM

[chernjam]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 10:11pm

jo said: "Interesting article from The Independent ( UK) in 1993 when the musical had undergone some changes and was to be reintroduced.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/walking-into-the-sunset-when-andrew-lloyd-webber-took-sunset-boulevard-to-norma-desmonds-backyard-1466848.html

"Strikingly believable as a former silent star, not least because her singing voice does not create the contradictory impression of a youthful diva, Glenn Close and her example should teach the producers that when it comes to casting a new Norma, you need someone who is primarily a formidable actress.""

 

Jo - thank you for finding that...  Wow.  When Sunset had its world premiere - it was the first time I really anticipated and followed a show from it's announcement to it's arrival.  I remember going and waiting at a news stand to get the Variety special "Sunset Blvd" edition that I still have somewhere with full page ads from people in the industry congratulating the creators, the stars. etc on it's premiere...  And similarly anxiously waiting to read reviews (in print not online, as they weren't available at the time) about the World Premiere.  I wasn't shocked that Frank Rich dissed it in the NY Times, but some of the other reviews at the time were troubling.  So when they "re worked it" it was interesting to read the article you posted.  The World Premiere Recording was already committed to memory for me (and I already loved it) so I was curious what major changes they would make.  That was my first real hint until the American Premiere Recording finally was released almost a year later.

Ahh memories.

 

 

[Niles Silvers]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 11:02pm

Why not just chuck the music and do another straight drama?  I would love to see someone's attempt to match or exceed the original, in all its glory.  

[Sho-Tunes-R-Us]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 11:23pm

Niles Silvers said: "Why not just chuck the musicand do another straight drama? I would loveto see someone's attempt to match or exceed the original, in all its glory."

Thanks for the laff....now cover your head before the hail of verbal stones begins.

[jo]

Posted: 1/9/19 at 11:38pm

Sho-Tunes-R-Us said: "Niles Silvers said: "Why not just chuck the musicand do another straight drama? I would loveto see someone's attempt to match or exceed the original, in all its glory."

Thanks for the laff....now cover your head before the hail of verbal stones begins."

Lol - I said it earlier 

"I wouldn't mind if what they simply remade is the film noir classic itself ( which can broaden the casting choices). It gives us a closer glimpse of the characters of Joe Gillis and the woman who unexpectedly enters his life while continuing to live in the past.   I think what attracted me to the stage musical  is the drama that the composer tried to translate into a musical theatre gift. 
"

 

[mc1227]

Posted: 1/10/19 at 12:36am

Lot666 said: "Justin D said: "My biggest concern is the cutting of songs that always seems to happen with these movies to make them a better movie 'length' and some of the music from Sunset I love the most is the incidental music, so I am dreading what songs will be cut and what sung dialogue will be converted to just plain speaking.

Do you all think they will shoot it in black & 

i hope this is shot in B&W.  I think it’s an integral part of the film, it’s much more real and  dramatic, ala Raging Bull.  

I also feel the leading man should be someone in his 40s who can belt.  Unfortunately, I can’t think of anyone who perfectly fits the bill.  We now know Bradley Cooper can sing, but not sure he could handle this material.  Effron and other younger talent are too boyish looking and as much as I love Jackman, his voice just doesn’t do it. I guess my vote would go to Will Chase, even though he would not be considered a box office draw.  I think he can pull it off.

lilly Collins is a good choice for Betty but maybe Anne Hathaway would consider it.  Victor Garber would make a great Max but many others mentioned like Simmons or Lithgow would be great as well.  I just hope this production process goes quickly because I just love this story and the musical adaptation and want Glenn’s amazing performance preserved.  

 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 1/10/19 at 6:22am

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Glenn: Thefascination for me is how do you translate in a musical, a song which is basically an internal monologue, how do you do that seamlessly on film? Im fascinated by the challenge of it. And Im really believing, Im willing it to happen. I think it will."

By creating a world of thought. Non literal.

I am really glad she asks herself this and it actually increases my respect for her. Because this is exactly the point that makes or breaks musical on film.

Most parts are indeed an internal monologue so these scenes need to support that in sets, lighting, filmic editing, pre-recorded tracks help to create the essential separation between sung thought and reality immensely, it instantly creates a sort of better than life magic which heightens the emotion of sung thought, non-literal ways of communicating but embracing the chosen language instead of apologizing for it.

This essential disconnect between the real world and sung thought can also be achieved by using the music as a voice over in certain scenes, where you see other things happening that tell a story or are a flashback when we hear a sung thought, the characters not necessarily mouthing to the lyrics at all times, some spaces can be undefined, (they do this wonderfully in Moulin Rouge, Chicago and Evita), and elaborate editing and camera movement.

And, of course, hire artists who understand the difference between sung notes and literal dialogue and that switching them constantly is not the same as combining them.

Updated On: 1/10/19 at 06:22 AM

[Niles Silvers]

Posted: 1/10/19 at 7:24am

Sho-Tunes-R-Us said: "Niles Silvers said: "Why not just chuck the musicand do another straight drama? I would loveto see someone's attempt to match or exceed the original, in all its glory."

Thanks for the laff....now cover your head before the hail of verbal stones begins."

I have no idea what that means, but I sense your giddy sense of superiority has kicked in somehow.

[EdEval]

Posted: 1/10/19 at 10:18am

As much as I loved Glenn Close on stage, I would say Meryl Streep for the film and yes,  Hugh Jackman.

[Theatre Fan3]

Posted: 1/11/19 at 10:09pm

What do you think of Betty Buckley's interpretation of "As If We Never Said Goodbye"?

Sunset Blvd - Buckley - As if we never said goodbye