The Outsiders Tour Contract - Where is the concern?

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 2:31pm

The Outsiders is the most recent winner of the Tony Award for Best Musical and has demonstrated substantial commercial success, with the Broadway production averaging weekly grosses of $1.3 million. These achievements solidify its status as a bona fide hit, and yet the producers have been approved for a Level 5 touring agreement rather than a Level 1. This decision raises questions about whether the agreement reflects the success and earning potential of this production and if it ensures fair compensation for the performers and stage managers who bring this acclaimed show to life.

It is worth noting the involvement of major producing entities such as the Nederlanders, the John Gore Organization, and the Independent Presenters Network, all of whom are co-producers of The Outsiders on Broadway. These organizations also serve as owners or operators of numerous Broadway touring presenters across the country. This dual role raises concerns about a potential conflict of interest: by participating both as producers and presenters, these entities have a clear stake in minimizing the costs of touring productions, potentially at the expense of fair compensation for performers and stage managers.

The decision to approve a Level 5 touring agreement for The Outsiders—and potentially other lucrative productions like Hell’s Kitchen—appears to allow these “double dippers” to negotiate lower-tier agreements, effectively diminishing the financial benefits afforded to Equity members. Actors’ Equity must take a closer look at how these agreements are negotiated and consider implementing safeguards to ensure that the financial success of a production is accurately reflected in the pay and working conditions for its cast and crew.

Equity members deserve contracts that reflect the true earning potential of the shows they help create, and it is essential to hold producers and presenters accountable for ensuring respectable salaries and working conditions.

I want to know how I can help as an outsider to the agreement. Should I write letters to the producers of The Outsiders or other organizations involved? Would continuing to post on social media platforms to raise awareness of this issue be helpful? Are there other ways I can support Actors’ Equity in advocating for stronger contracts that align with the success of these productions?

 

Updated On: 1/23/25 at 02:31 PM

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 2:46pm

I ran out of outrage some time in 2023.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 3:05pm

It’s not the first time this has happened. It’s practically the norm now, and until equity revises or does away with the tier system, producers will continue to take advantage in order to maximize their profits.

[SeanD2]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 3:10pm

If actors feel that a tour isn't paying them enough for the work they're doing they're free to turn down the job. It's a producer's job to maximize revenue returned to their investors and part of that is keeping costs as low as possible. Actors have the fuzzy end of the supply & demand lollipop which makes low wages possible.

[joevitus]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 4:13pm

SeanD2 said: "If actors feel that a tour isn't paying them enough for the work they're doing they're free to turn down the job. It's a producer's job to maximize revenue returned to their investors and part of that is keeping costs as low as possible. Actors have the fuzzy end of the supply & demand lollipop which makes low wages possible."

Oh, sure! Just turn the job down. No problem at al, right? So many, many jobs available. Talent so scarce. 

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 4:20pm

It's so weird when the bootlickers come out and try to explain Broadway capitalism to people. Yes. We know how it works. It shouldn't work that way. 


"Outrage" does feel like a lot tho going the situation.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 4:25pm

Call_me_jorge said: "The Outsiders is the most recent winner of the Tony Award for Best Musical and has demonstrated substantial commercial success, with the Broadway production averaging weekly grosses of $1.3 million. These achievements solidify its status as a bona fide hit, and yet the producers have been approved for a Level 5 touring agreement rather than a Level 1. This decision raises questions about whether the agreement reflects the success and earning potential of this production and if it ensures fair compensation for the performers and stage managers who bring this acclaimed show to life.

It is worth noting the involvement of major producing entities such as the Nederlanders, the John Gore Organization, and the Independent Presenters Network, all of whom are co-producers of The Outsiders on Broadway. These organizations also serve as owners or operators of numerous Broadway touring presenters across the country. This dual role raises concerns about a potential conflict of interest: by participating both as producers and presenters, these entities have a clear stake in minimizing the costs of touring productions, potentially at the expense of fair compensation for performers and stage managers.

The decision to approve a Level 5 touring agreement for The Outsiders—and potentially other lucrative productions like Hell’s Kitchen—appears to allow these “double dippers” to negotiate lower-tier agreements, effectively diminishing the financial benefits afforded to Equity members. Actors’ Equity must take a closer look at how these agreements are negotiated and consider implementing safeguards to ensure that the financial success of a production is accurately reflected in the pay and working conditions for its cast and crew.

Equity members deserve contracts that reflect the true earning potential of the shows they help create, and it is essential to hold producers and presenters accountable for ensuring respectable salaries and working conditions.

I want to know how I can help as an outsider to the agreement. Should I write letters to the producers of The Outsiders or other organizations involved? Would continuing to post on social media platforms to raise awareness of this issue be helpful? Are there other ways I can support Actors’ Equity in advocating for stronger contracts that align with the success of these productions?

Your post just BEGS for a Jesse Tyler Ferguson dramatic reading.  

 

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 4:36pm

I mean..."Conflict of Interest" is basically the John Gore Organization's entire business model when you get down to it.

And of course Equity needs to rethink the tier system for these tours. As a rule: if there is any way to short change actors, producers WILL use it to short change actors. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 4:39pm

How does that boot taste, JSquared2?

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 4:41pm

MayAudraBlessYou2 said: "I mean..."Conflict of Interest" is basically the John Gore Organization's entire business model when you get down to it.

And of course Equity needs to rethink the tier system for these tours. As a rule: if there is any way to short change actors, producers WILL use it to short change actors."

AEA is the weakest link. They don't have a backbone. It would take a serious strike to change the touring system. If a show is currently running on Broadway, actors should not be doing the same labor for 1/2 the price on tour. 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 5:16pm

Call_me_jorge said: "How does that boot taste,JSquared2?"

 

Sorry -- not getting your reference.  Care to elaborate?

 

[troynow]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 5:31pm

Call_me_jorge said: "The Outsiders is the most recent winner of the Tony Award for Best Musical and has demonstrated substantial commercial success, with the Broadway production averaging weekly grosses of $1.3 million. These achievements solidify its status as a bona fide hit, and yet the producers have been approved for a Level 5 touring agreement rather than a Level 1. This decision raises questions about whether the agreement reflects the success and earning potential of this production and if it ensures fair compensation for the performers and stage managers who bring this acclaimed show to life.

It is worth noting the involvement of major producing entities such as the Nederlanders, the John Gore Organization, and the Independent Presenters Network, all of whom are co-producers of The Outsiders on Broadway. These organizations also serve as owners or operators of numerous Broadway touring presenters across the country. This dual role raises concerns about a potential conflict of interest: by participating both as producers and presenters, these entities have a clear stake in minimizing the costs of touring productions, potentially at the expense of fair compensation for performers and stage managers.

The decision to approve a Level 5 touring agreement for The Outsiders—and potentially other lucrative productions like Hell’s Kitchen—appears to allow these “double dippers” to negotiate lower-tier agreements, effectively diminishing the financial benefits afforded to Equity members. Actors’ Equity must take a closer look at how these agreements are negotiated and consider implementing safeguards to ensure that the financial success of a production is accurately reflected in the pay and working conditions for its cast and crew.

Equity members deserve contracts that reflect the true earning potential of the shows they help create, and it is essential to hold producers and presenters accountable for ensuring respectable salaries and working conditions.

I want to know how I can help as an outsider to the agreement. Should I write letters to the producers of The Outsiders or other organizations involved? Would continuing to post on social media platforms to raise awareness of this issue be helpful? Are there other ways I can support Actors’ Equity in advocating for stronger contracts that align with the success of these productions?


I want to agree with you....but you really do not understand the theatre busisness or investments. There is no double dip, and a the ability to offer a lower contract. 

The touring contracts are based on a HUGE GUESS of what the road market MIGHT do. Being an investor above title of show has NO bearing ont he touring contract. 
The presenter has invested in the "mother company" and will be a royalty participate from subsequent companies. 

Your complaint should be with the AEA who allowed the passage of a SETA contract. That contract has tiers. 
However, on the producer side, if the show does well the overages kick in and the talent can make more than "Production Contract". 


"