Update: AIN'T NO MO extended thru December 23! Yay!- Page 5

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 11:15pm

Ke3 said: "songanddanceman2 said: "So white people, stop talking about race because we don't understand, should not have opinions and are far too privileged (Jew's, gays etc, went through nothing, we don't understand)

But it's also white people's fault for not going to see the play...the one we shouldn't have an opinion about, understand etc because its not about our 'race'



OK, got it."

You do realize you pulled all of that out of thin air, right?Where did I say other marginalized groups don't exist? I said discussions about *race* specifically get completely circular. Where did I say that the circular nature of the argument comes from "too much privilege"? But of course that's where you mind went because as I said, these discussions simply become proxy battles in the larger culture war.

It's also lovely that the assumption in your post is that I cannot also belong to one of those other groups. I am for example, queer. I could easily have been a Black Jew."

Erm this wasn't aimed at you or anyone specific, but I completely stand by it, as that's exactly what I'm getting from some of the posts on this thread  

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 12:16am

The "noise" on this page is deafening. It's sad but this purposeless chatter makes intelligent discussion impossible. Hope those responsible are happy. It's ok. We have fora for intelligent, productive discussion and progress. All you have is noise.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 12:39am

When did I sniff my nose at white audiences? You can look at the grosses and see they are showing up… for Lea Michele or Hugh Jackman. Those are just facts and from years of going to Broadway/theater it skews older white. I don’t know why this so hard to understand. That’s why shows like Jersey Boys did so well. All those Long Island and New Jersey peeps came in droves.

Neither of our backgrounds matter as this isn’t a personal issue. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 1:20am

SouthernCakes said: "When did I sniff my nose at white audiences? You can look at the grosses and see they are showing up… for Lea Michele or Hugh Jackman. Those are just facts and from years of going to Broadway/theater it skews older white. I don’t know why this so hard to understand."

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand that all you are contributing here is noise. You keep harping about the past when the subject at hand is the future. The challenge we confront is evolving because that which does not evolve dies. You cannot build a future based on older white people. The future of Broadway is an inclusive Broadway and, as rehearsed, that means not just content but audience. The subject here is not this week's grosses; it's this decades grosses. The road through the rust belt is paved with the myopia of people who do not look for their future sources of revenue. All you are chattering about here is defending the indefensible. Noise.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 1:27am

So your voice matters but not mine. Cool. Gross.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 1:46am

SouthernCakes said: "So your voice matters but not mine. Cool. Gross."

More noise.

All voices matter, but you are only voicing noise. Don't you ever desire to actually engage instead of just creating static? Just curious.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 2:19am

Don’t you wish to make an actual point? I’m not making noise. You just don’t like what I’ve got to say. And that’s fine. Don’t respond to it? 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 10:29am

"You see things; and you say 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?'”
(Shaw, Back to Methuselah, Act 1)

 “Some [people] see things as they are and say, why; I dream things that never were and say, why not.” (RFK, 1968)

 

[Lola Getz2]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 10:48am

Anyway, what is the purpose of Will and Jada buying out ONE performance? What is that going to achieve? Who will be in the audience? Will it be a private party of invited guests? It certainly won't "save" the show.

Or is it just an opportunity for Will to try to save some face and show what a great guy he really is? 

Genuinely curious as it just seems so odd and pointless.

[Idiot]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 11:00am

Lola Getz2 said: 

Or is it just an opportunity for Will to try to save some face and show what a great guy he really is?
 

Will has a race-centric film opening on Apple+ this weekend.  I'd speculate that the gesture is motivated by solidarity, image rehab and promotional value for his project.  I don't know if he and his wife are also friends with one of the ANM producers - but that would explain it. 

 

[Lola Getz2]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 11:05am

Idiot said: "Will has a race-centric film opening on Apple+ this weekend. I'd speculate that the gesture is motivated by solidarity, image rehab and promotional value for his project. I don't know if he and his wife are also friends with one of the ANM producers - but that would explain it."

So it is all about publicity and image, and not to "save" ANM? 

 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 11:23am

Lola Getz2 said: "Idiot said: "Will has a race-centric film opening on Apple+ this weekend. I'd speculate that the gesture is motivated by solidarity, image rehab and promotional value for his project. I don't know if he and his wife are also friends with one of the ANM producers - but that would explain it."

So it is all about publicity and image, and not to "save" ANM?"

 

Absolutely.

 

[veronicamae]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 11:53am

If Will & Jada actually wanted to save the show, they'd be angel investors - they have more than enough $. Buying out one performance is almost embarrassing tbh. Like...great.....doubtful it will change anything between now and the end of the week.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 12:38pm

Lola Getz2 said: "Anyway, what is the purpose of Will and Jada buying out ONE performance? What is that going to achieve? Who will be in the audience? Will it be a private party of invited guests? It certainly won't "save" the show.

Or is it just an opportunity for Will to try to save some face and show what a great guy he really is?

Genuinely curious as it just seems so odd and pointless."

It brings attention to the show and shows that they support it. It allows more people to see the show. It's more than a tweet most people won't see. 

[Robbie2]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 12:45pm

Lola Getz2 said: "Idiot said: "Will has a race-centric film opening on Apple+ this weekend. I'd speculate that the gesture is motivated by solidarity, image rehab and promotional value for his project. I don't know if he and his wife are also friends with one of the ANM producers - but that would explain it."

So it is all about publicity and image, and not to "save" ANM

 

Come on...it's all about Will and not ANM. They probably won't even see it. I noticed BET is a producer so what are they doing to bring attention to the black community? Are they advertising on that network?

[Robbie2]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 12:57pm

gibsons2 said: "Robbie2 said: "Kad said: "I live up in Harlem and if you were going by visible advertisements, you would not know this show existed. No ads on bus stops or subways, no window cards in shops or other small businesses, nothing."

Btw, do you see any shows advertising in the hood?"

I live in Harlem too (Hamilton heights) and yes we do get ads of Broadway shows. Death of a Salesman has been heavily advertised during the Harlem week back in August I think. I still see large posters on the bus stops. I saw The Piano Lesson posters as well."

 

Thanks for letting the board know as we live downtown and see a lot of Bway shows advertise everywhere. We don't go up to Harlem so wasn't sure how heavy shows advertise in that hood. 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 2:23pm

SouthernCakes said: "When did I sniff my nose at white audiences? You can look at the grosses and see they are showing up… for Lea Michele or Hugh Jackman. Those are just facts and from years of going to Broadway/theater it skews older white. I don’t know why this so hard to understand. That’s why shows like Jersey Boys did so well. All those Long Island and New Jersey peeps came in droves.

Neither of our backgrounds matter as this isn’t a personal issue."

You keep saying White audiences are showing up for X or Y (moving away from Leopol to the big musicals now...) as if we have data over the ethnic makeup of who is seeing what. I AGREE that the traditional Bway audience is Whiter, older, and obviously generally wealthier, but how is that a ding against those audiences? Meaning, should they NOT be attending shows? Of course not, so you're implying they're seeing the WRONG shows. And to do this, you have to then suggest that more diverse audiences are NOT seeing the well-selling shows- so you resort to pretending that "only one" person of color from this board saw Leopol (me, i presume) which is kinda offensive in and of itself, no? 

I want shows like ANM to succeed. I want MORE people to see Bway shows. I think theres a conversation to be had about why its so expensive to put on a show. Do avant garde confrontational shows (that i tend to appreciate!) belong on Bway, trying to fill enormous houses, instead of being heavily advertised and marketed for wider audiences while downtown in smaller theaters? Should there be shows "for" any racial group? And if there are, how can anyone then be angry if those excluded racial groups arent flocking to see it? 

But I refuse to sort those who see shows and those who don't into racial groups, or blame audiences for seeing....what they want to see. Just a few weeks ago Gabriel Byrne's heavily Irish one hander closed after playing like 11 performances to 65 people. It would seem insane to suggest (i) Irish-Americans arent showing up to Bway, or (ii) that Black, Jewish, Asian audiences really should have showed up in greater numbers. People just weren't interested in it. Or in KPop. Or in ANM. I dont see how audiences can be blamed for it or how that implies a "problem with Broadway" that needs fixing.

 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 2:51pm

I agree that “blaming” any demographic for not buying tickets to a show is not going to help. It’s silly to be mad at, say, the white people over 50 crowd for not wanting to see Ain’t No Mo’. Of course they weren’t interested in seeing that. Conversely, my wife is a Mexican-American who grew up on the west side of Chicago, and she can’t stand the “white people sitting around a living room talking” type shows that I love. I don’t blame her. They weren’t written for her. Of course she doesn’t like them.
 

When it comes to commercial theatre, the shows that are successful are always going to be the ones that have “cross-over appeal.” The shows that have flopped this season, from Gabriel Byrne’s vanity project to ANM were aimed very specifically at minorities (white women over 60 who still think Gabriel Byrne is hot, and Black people, respectively). Blame capitalism perhaps, but don’t blame people for not buying tickets to something for which they are clearly not the intended audience.

Updated On: 12/11/22 at 02:51 PM

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 3:21pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "SouthernCakes said: "When did I sniff my nose at white audiences? You can look at the grosses and see they are showing up… for Lea Michele or Hugh Jackman. Those are just facts and from years of going to Broadway/theater it skews older white. I don’t know why this so hard to understand. That’s why shows like Jersey Boys did so well. All those Long Island and New Jersey peeps came in droves.

Neither of our backgrounds matter as this isn’t a personal issue."

You keep saying White audiences are showing up for X or Y (moving away from Leopol to the big musicals now...) as if we have data over the ethnic makeup of who is seeing what. I AGREE that the traditional Bway audience is Whiter, older, and obviously generally wealthier, but how is that a ding against those audiences? Meaning, should they NOT be attending shows? Of course not, so you're implying they're seeing the WRONG shows. And to do this, you have to then suggest that more diverse audiences are NOT seeing the well-selling shows- so you resort to pretending that "only one" person of color from this board saw Leopol (me, i presume) which is kinda offensive in and of itself, no?

I want shows like ANM to succeed. I want MORE people to see Bway shows. I think theres a conversation to be had about why its so expensive to put on a show. Do avant garde confrontational shows (that i tend to appreciate!) belong on Bway, trying to fill enormous houses, instead of being heavily advertised and marketed for wider audiences while downtown in smaller theaters? Should there be shows "for" any racial group? And if there are, how can anyone then be angry if those excluded racial groups arent flocking to see it?

But I refuse to sort those who see shows and those who don't into racial groups, or blame audiences for seeing....what they want to see. Just a few weeks ago Gabriel Byrne's heavily Irish one hander closed after playing like 11 performances to 65 people. It would seem insane to suggest (i) Irish-Americans arent showing up to Bway, or (ii) that Black, Jewish, Asian audiences really should have showed up in greater numbers. People just weren't interested in it. Or in KPop. Or in ANM. I dont see how audiences can be blamed for it or how that implies a "problem with Broadway" that needs fixing.

"

You are stretching what I’m saying a lot. 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 3:23pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "I agree that “blaming” any demographic for not buying tickets to a show is not going to help. It’s silly to be mad at, say, the white people over 50 crowd for not wanting to see Ain’t No Mo’. Of course they weren’t interested in seeing that. Conversely, my wife is a Mexican-American who grew up on the west side of Chicago, and she can’t stand the “white people sitting around a living room talking” type shows that I love. I don’t blame her. They weren’t written for her. Of course she doesn’t like them.


When it comes to commercial theatre, the shows that are successful are always going to be the ones that have “cross-over appeal.” The shows that have flopped this season, from Gabriel Byrne’s vanity project to ANM were aimed very specifically at minorities (white women over 60 who still think Gabriel Byrne is hot, and Black people, respectively). Blame capitalism perhaps, but don’t blame people for not buying tickets to something for which they are clearly not the intended audience."

This is my point. i’m not blaming anyone at all. Simply saying the audience for these shows aren’t here currently. 

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 3:55pm

At this point, things that land on Broadway need to feel like events. Tickets cost too much and there's way too much competition. Even at discounted prices, folks can only see so many Broadway shows and you need to give people a reason to pick your. Unless you have a subscriber base, you need to give an audience a reason to come.

A great play that had an exciting run off-broadway YEARS ago is not an IMMEDIATE event. It's possible, tho unlikely, that these great reviews, celebrity endorsements, and terrific word of mouth might have built Ain't No Mo INTO an event... but the producers did not give it enough time. 

It feels like the producers failed the artists and the audience, not making a strong enough case that everyone should see this play at this time. Piano Lesson and Topdog have stars, Leopoldstadt has prestige/scope/relevance, Death of a Salesman has prestige/British awards... Ain't No Mo has... the "youngest playwright on Broadway" and a plot that sounds like medicine? Ain't No Mo has obviously a lot more than that... but that's all you get from press.

Why didn't they think of an angle? Why weren't they all over Tiktok? Why didn't they leave more room to build an audience? Why wasn't Peaches on every late night and early morning show that films in New York? It baffles me. 

I think there's a lot wrong with Broadway and the audiences it targets... but I don't think the failure of Ain't No Mo tells that story. 

 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 5:42pm

so much backpedaling here.

if the reason why ANM is closing is because "white people like white things" and if, as its now being renovated upon pushback, that statement isnt an accusation or criticism at all, then ANM--a show written for Black people, according to its biggest fans-- was meant to survive with predominantly Black audiences, right? Then who is the playwright angry at for not showing up, exactly? 

It, like the response from the KPop crew, is such misplaced frustration at The Man, such obvious lashing out in reaction to disappointment. And thats totally fine, I guess, if it were treated as such, and not taken seriously as some sort of pointed critique or eye-opening point about The State of Broadway or Race or whatever.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 5:54pm

I feel like we’re on the same page now?

[RUkiddingme]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 7:02pm

Sometimes shows close.

New ones follow.

That's show business.

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/11/22 at 7:15pm

SouthernCakes said: "I feel like we’re on the same page now?"

Without admitting it, you've subtly altered the noise you were propagating earlier. I'm not complaining.