Update: AIN'T NO MO extended thru December 23! Yay!- Page 3

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 1:57pm

troynow said: "Is Broadway super white? Sure.
However, to blame every failure of a show of color on the “whiteness” of Broadway that is just wrong.

There are shows telling stories with Black people in them doing well. Examples:

TopDog/ Under Dog
Death of a Salesman
Piano Lesson

All have Black people in them some from a Black point of view.

Also, to say Ain’t No Mo just didn’t its audience is false. The show was not marketed well because Daniels is a first time producer. A NOVICE! Broadway is HARD. And you can’t force it like a movie. Furthermore the grossest were not moving in the direction of the public.

Speaking of… THE PUBLIC! Where was their support??? They were off too busy becoming producers for Fat Ham leaving their other show, Aint No Mo, out to dry.

Lastly, this is NOT COVID. Unfortunately, Broadway is a business not a not profit doing things for impact.

Walking With Ghost
KPOP
Aint No Mo

All closing/closed early for lack of tickets sales and or interest from the general public.

Do not indict the theatre community because people choose not to see your show.

ITS JUST WRONG. Not Racist. "

I think your statement re Top Dog et al doing well is invalid. Top Dog and Death both have had box office malaise from the beginning, although not as bad as Ain’t NoMo’ or K-POP. Death has grossed a lot more than Top Dog, but there are still plenty of seats that go unsold, and I imagine that it will be a financial failure.   Piano Lesson falls under the ‘it has stars’ category, which has a lot to do with its well-deserved grosses.

Updated On: 12/10/22 at 01:57 PM

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 2:19pm

songanddanceman2 said: "I might get shouted at for this but I don't care.

Message plays, plays lecturing people on how to be and how to see the world etc are not what people are after right now. The world has been through HELL for years now, yet the moment theatres can open, each new play seems to be yet another 'message" play

Shows like Six, &Juliet, Moulin Rouge etc are doing well because it offers something fun, simple, a place to escape the non stop barrage of mess in the outside world, people do not want to walk in to the same thing.

Plays need to adapt, of course we need still the kind of plays we are seeing, but we also need something different. More comedies, thrillers etc, something that reaches a mainstream audience.

Producers need to read the room."

While I'm in agreement that Broadway could probably use more thrillers and genre-y stuff, it seems a little disingenuous to attribute the closing of shows like Ain't No Mo to them being "message plays, plays lecturing people" when Leopoldstadt is one of the biggest hits of the season.

[pethian]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 2:29pm

Ensemble1665759202 said: "I think that regardless of how great or hard a show markets, post-pandemic Broadway can only sustain musicals with big names or jukebox musicals. Hope that doesn't continue to be true, but it's how things seem at the moment tbh."

And then there's LEOPOLDSTADT...

 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 3:06pm

White people like white people things. 

[Voter]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 3:40pm

Jordan's message made it sound like the Shuberts were the ones kicking the show out... which leads me to wonder, what incoming shows would warrant such a hasty closing? Is there anyone slated to take that theater after ANM closes?

[quizking101]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 3:59pm

Voter said: "Jordan's message made it sound like the Shuberts were the ones kicking the show out... which leads me to wonder, what incoming shows would warrant such a hasty closing? Is there anyone slated to take that theater after ANM closes?"

GOOD NIGHT, OSCAR isn’t slated until March. Unless there is a limited run of something they managed to pick up, they could just be invoking a stop clause in the contract. The run was supposed to end at the end of February

[Alexander Lamar]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:00pm

Even if an another show doesn’t want the theater, do the posted grosses seem like they would cover the salaries (cast, crew, FOH), rent, and utilities? I’m not sure how it works but is it possible Shubert was also losing money by allowing them to stay?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:06pm

I mean, if anyone’s grosses were a reason to evict a show for something else it would be this one. 
 

Im also genuinely confused why “Leopoldstadt” is part of this conversation. It’s a show that’s gotten great word of mouth and is selling well. That happens for some shows and for others, not so much.
 

There is a genuine conversation that can be had about why shows like ANM are doing so badly but it’s not a conversation that can be had on a forum like this, or any social media for that matter. Because in order to have that actual conversation where ideas are shared and go back and forth, you need to do it somewhere other than a place where (a lot of) people post what they think is the “right” thing to say and to virtue signal and clutch pearls over things that they want to be seen as offensive when in fact, they’re just statements as part of the dialogue.
 

And statements like “White people like white people things” do absolutely nothing to further anything. If, as people have pointed out, Broadway’s audience is a large majority white then that’s saying white people like Broadway. I’m white and I like Broadway. Is that a bad thing, now? Because statements like that seem to suggest that white people are somehow in the wrong for liking things they do. Are black people liking “black people things” wrong for not diversifying more, too? Where’s the line on things like that?  
 

I don’t know what the answer to the question as to why people aren’t flocking to things like this is. But I do think the blaming of certain people - the very people you want to see your show - is insane.  

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:23pm

As has been rehearsed multiple times, the stop clause is triggered automatically when a show falls below the magic number for the magic period. It is beyond inconceivable that it has not been triggered here. But it is equally inconceivable that the Shuberts would invoke it for 12/18. Makes zero sense. No show, with no announcement and no preparation, is going to come in during the dog days of January for a <2 month run. It's quite obvious that the production chose to close on the 18th because people, even rich people, don't like bleeding money. 

@Jordan, I tend to agree that nothing can be resolved here because of "noise," but it is very bizarre form of sanctimony that has you throwing around expressions like virtue signalling and pearl clutching. People can have different takes but just as you have firmly held convictions, so do others. Lots of white folk liked this show, lots of black folk did. maybe we should avoid trying to apologize for some lousy producing and marketing by drawing lines. And finally, I am willing to cut Cooper a little slack because he is (a) young and (b) heartbroken, kinda like some of the England players who just got sent home from the World Cup and were banging their fists in the dirt. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:26pm

Hogan, I know people who LOVED this show. I know people who HATED this show. I know people who were indifferent to it. And I know people who feel the same way about WICKED. And I was referencing the statement above when talking about “white people things”. That was why I brought it up. 

[LuPita2]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:36pm

SouthernCakes said: "White people like white people things."

Agreed. And anyone who is somehow triggered or offended by this notion should check their privilege and do some self reflection about why they feel that way. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:44pm

Good God. That's not an "offensive" thing to say. Does it make people feel better to think that that's offensive? Gay people like gay stuff, too. I do. I'm also Jewish and like Jewish people stuff. It's how we (society/people/humans) are. Comments like the one above are the exact reason conversations like this are impossible to have online.

[CChang 2]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:52pm

you being constantly defensive by facts are actually the reason this can't be a reasonable discussion. you're the only person acting this way on this thread. You did not like this show. Thank you for your opinion.

move on. 

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 4:56pm

LOL. Yes, telling people to stop talking is a wonderful addition to a conversation. And nowhere here did I ever give any opinions on the show, just the "drama" behind what's happening with it. Thank you for your well thought out contribution, though.

Updated On: 12/10/22 at 04:56 PM

[JasonC3]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 5:29pm

One of the reasons so many conversation here (and in other online forums) devolve so quickly is that many people seem compelled to try and "win" every exchange.

Dialogue typically requires people to balance advocating their own perspective with open-minded inquiry into those others hold. 

I'm not a Stephen Covey/Seven Habits fanatic, but he wasn't wrong when he asserted Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood® is a worthy habit.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 5:32pm

^ Love that. 

[Kad]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 5:45pm

Quality can be a deciding factor in a show’s success, but it is hardly the only factor in a show’s success. Mediocrity has succeeded on Broadway and will continue to do so. 

Broadway is perceived as an entertainment for tourists or a certain demographic of white audiences (and, frankly, data backs that up). Until it can actually overcome that, shows that try to appeal to more groups as their ticketbuyer base will struggle. And that requires creativity and work from marketing firms and producers. It shouldn’t be on the artists or the fans. 
 

In the case of Aint No Mo, nobody has been showing up. And that failure to translate acclaim into sales is solely on the producers. 

 

Updated On: 12/10/22 at 05:45 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 5:54pm

it sure would be nice to be able to have it both ways, wouldn't it? Aint No Mo and K-Pop are new, different, unconventional. They're trying something out the box. I applaud that, if done well--and with respect to Aint No Mo, i've heard nothing but wonderful things.

But if we are recognizing that its new, different, edgy, then we can't ALSO pretend to be shocked and confused when it doesnt catch on: it was always thus. Leopolstadt is a critically adored play by a famous playwright that is totally conventional, straightfwd, topically easy to market. Its not that its A WHITE PLAY- its a traditional night of theater that---and i know this is so hard for some to accept--lotsa people want to see. Its as simple as that. (I didnt love it, by any stretch, for what its worth). 

But nope, its A WHITE PLAY for WHITE PEOPLE and how do we know this? "just look at the audiences"--apparently SouthernCakes is an usher at the Longacre, noted. Well the audience I sat in at Piano Less was pretty White. Ruh-roh! Make it make sense-- i thought that was a Black play? I'm biracial so please point me to which play I should see next? I'm confused.

Aint No Mo was always a tough sell. The idea that its total inability to sell tickets is the fault of WHITE PEOPLE! is not only ugly, and not only stupid, but, ya know, kinda ensures that the next effort to make intense, confrontational art by POC will struggle, too. Reminds me of Republicans: "We just can't figure out why all the people we are demonizing won't vote for us! It makes no sense!"

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 6:01pm

But is Piano Lesson selling the same way? Both are, to your  example, standard plays by famous playwrights. 

[Kad]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 6:08pm

SouthernCakes said: "But is Piano Lesson selling the same way? Both are, to your example, standard plays by famous playwrights."

Do you want people to bring up records of how “white shows” versus “black shows” performed…? 

[LuPita2]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 6:11pm

@Jordan, I tend to agree that nothing can be resolved here because of "noise," but it is very bizarre form of sanctimony that has you throwing around expressions like virtue signalling and pearl clutching.

Great (part) of your comment, HH. A person who pretends not to be offended then spends a paragraph clearly being offended is a funny thing. The play was not written for white people and damn, that pisses some white people off! 

Broadway is a white space and white playwrights dominated (and still do) so I can't expect evolved responses from everyone, especially overly sensitive people who can't stand not being included. "You did not write this with ME in mind?" The audacity!

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 6:14pm

SouthernCakes said: "But is Piano Lesson selling the same way? Both are, to your example, standard plays by famous playwrights."

It's easy enough to check, and the answer is...yes. The attendance numbers are very similar, with Piano occasionally surpassing Leopoldstadt. Leopoldstadt is grossing more, because its tickets are more expensive--unsurprisingly because it has a much larger cast (17 vs Piano Lesson's 7) so likely costs much more to run.

Piano:



 

Leopold:

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 6:19pm

So the answers no then… it’s not selling better. 

[Robbie2]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 7:58pm

Kad said: "I live up in Harlem and if you were going by visible advertisements, you would not know this show existed. No ads on bus stops or subways, no window cards in shops or other small businesses, nothing."

Btw, do you see any shows advertising in the hood? 

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 12/10/22 at 7:58pm

SouthernCakes said: "So the answers no then… it’s not selling better."

You didn't ask if one was selling better than the other. You asked, "is Piano Lesson selling the same way?" The answer was yes, and presented with the evidence of that, you decided to pretend you asked a different question than you had. Unfortunately for you, most of us here are capable of reading comprehension. Nice try, though.