Is the Great Comet really that confusing - Page 2

[JustAnotherNewYorker]

Posted: 1/4/17 at 10:21pm

GreasedLightning said: "It also doesn't help that everyone's got nine different names "

Ha! I see what you did there.

 

I didn't find it confusing at all, and I didn't have the benefit of the Playbill (a sad fact of aging is that I increasingly need glasses to read the Playbill, and if frailty's name is "Woman", then surely vanity's name is "man" )

 

I think it will be even more clear the next time I see it, as I bought both the Great Comet Book (which includes an annotated script), a copy of War and Peace, and have the album, and my daughter and I are doing it book-club style. 

Updated On: 1/4/17 at 10:21 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/4/17 at 10:39pm

To reiterate, no one has suggested that it defies comprehension. If War and Peace can be comprehended, this can. What's being discussed here (this seems obvious but apparently isn't universally) is whether vast swaths of the non-theatre-going audience leave more confused than they arrived, and whether that condition makes the overall experience less than they would want. 

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 1/4/17 at 10:53pm

Confusing no. Rather stupid, yes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the show but I don't think anyone is really invested in you needing to follow things. You get who is "good", who is "bad" and then it's quiet and then it's loud and then it's over stimulating and then Josh sings and them more overstimulation. 

I agreed with many reviews that said it's like a confection without much heart. I got the themes but I never really knew anyone enough to truly care. Beautifully staged, sung and acted but the book is rather atrocious and many of the songs are mediocre. 

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 1/4/17 at 11:43pm

Bettyboy72 said: "Confusing no. Rather stupid, yes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the show but I don't think anyone is really invested in you needing to follow things. You get who is "good", who is "bad" and then it's quiet and then it's loud and then it's over stimulating and then Josh sings and them more overstimulation. 

I agreed with many reviews that said it's like a confection without much heart. I got the themes but I never really knew anyone enough to truly care. Beautifully staged, sung and acted but the book is rather atrocious and many of the songs are mediocre. 

 

"

Yeah Tolstoy is terrible.  War and Peace is an atrocious story.

In all seriousness the score is kind of brilliant and I don't understand what book there is to even be atrocious.  I feel like most people who claim that the score is terrible or mediocre,  don't get it.  Many of the lyrics are directly inspired from pieces of text in that 70 page piece of War and Peace.  Malloy has done a brillant job translating Tolstoy's novel into song.  Also, I think the show has a lot of heart, especially in the final scene between Pierre and Natasha.  The score probably needs a couple of listens to fully comprehend how layered and complex it is, but it is certainly better than mediocre.

[Fan123]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 3:17am

I don't remember being particularly confused by hearing the cast album (my closest brush thus far with seeing the show). But I do remember years prior to that, when I first started reading 'War and Peace', trying to draw out out my own family/relationship tree with all the nine-ish different names listed for each character, to help keep things straight! Maybe some newcomers to 'War and Peace' would find the show confusing in that regard as well.
Another aspect of the show which might cause confusion, is that the plot is a bit episodic and one might not know know beforehand which are the 'important' incidents in terms of straightforward plot, and which incidents are more about themes and such. About the first active thing we see a main character doing, is Natasha going to visit Prince Bolkonsky and Mary. The Boklonskys get a generous segment of the show dedicated to them and then aren't seen again (IIRC). An audience unfamiliar with the story might end up wondering for the rest of Act 1, "But where do the Boklonskys come back into it? What was that scene about?" Also, the scene with Pierre, Helene and Dolokhov at the club might make the audience think that Pierre's throughline will be about things changing substantially between him and Helene by the end of the show, but nope.
With show-hindsight we can say "The Bolkonskys scene sets up Andrey's chilling resemblance to his father towards the end of the show, and both scenes help illuminate the different, but nevertheless very limited, choices available to dissatisfied women in 1812, which ties in with Natasha's experience" and so forth, but new audience members don't yet know that those are the things to look out for in those scenes. They might instead simply see groundwork for plot developments that never happen (or, not within the slice of W&P adapted for the show at least). Just a theory.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 5:23am

Hellob said: "Actually, a group of 6 people today were definitely confused by the race difference and despite me saying Helene and Anatole were related they kept saying he was related to Pierre and couldn't comprehend the" black girl" being related to Sonya so there u go."

 

Well then I'm sorry but that's just them being closed-minded and being the cause of their own confusion. I don't think the show can be faulted for that at all. The fact that you even tried to tell them and they still were confused, partly proves my point. 

 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 5:58am

icecreambenjamin said: "In all seriousness the score is kind of brilliant and I don't understand what book there is to even be atrocious.  

The score probably needs a couple of listens to fully comprehend how layered and complex it is, but it is certainly better than mediocre."

If there is a story, there is a book.  That doesn't mean spoken dialogue.  

Your opinion of the score is no more valid then those that dislike it.  Just an opinion.
 

Personally, I loved it despite the shows' shortcomings. Is it more spectacle then substance? Sure, but I think it works together Incredibly well. And I don't particularly care for spectacle.  Looking forward to seeing this one last time from the stage next month, thanks to the ART discount.

Updated On: 1/5/17 at 05:58 AM

[MadonnaMusical]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 6:47am

I agree, I don't think the show is confusing at all. I've also had conversations with people who say they don't understand what the show as about when the curtain comes down too. To me it's pretty clear especially with the added song for Pierre that he's looking for an awakening of some sort and he finds it when he sees Natasha at her lowest. 

[Wee Thomas2]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 7:54am

I didn't find it confusing, just didn't think the ending made sense.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 8:46am

I only saw it at Ars Nova, an incredibly small (initimate) space. I didn't find it confusing, but then, I know War and Peace awfully well. I can even follow the opera, if you can imagine. That said, I felt that this show is much more about creating effects/moments than story telling.

Another thing to remember is that in a small theatre (or listening to the recording), anyone is going to find it much easier to follow the text than in any Broadway house, where the trend has been, for years, to overamplify and muddle the sound.

[irishgator1]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 8:52am

I saw it knowing nothing about the show or the plot. I didn't find the story confusing, but afterwards, upon buying the cast album and obsessively listening to it, I wish that I had been more familiar with the songs before going to it as it did give me a fuller picture of the storyline. I think I was just so taken aback with the loudness and the flashing lights (and Anatole's pants, to be honest!) that I was a little distracted.

I'm taking my husband to see it next month and I'm nervous that he'll hate it. He loves a good spectacle, but he didn't care for what little he heard of the Prologue.

[ethan231h]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 9:09am

Bettyboy72 said: "Confusing no. Rather stupid, yes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the show but I don't think anyone is really invested in you needing to follow things. You get who is "good", who is "bad" and then it's quiet and then it's loud and then it's over stimulating and then Josh sings and them more overstimulation. 

I agreed with many reviews that said it's like a confection without much heart. I got the themes but I never really knew anyone enough to truly care. Beautifully staged, sung and acted but the book is rather atrocious and many of the songs are mediocre. 

 

"

COULDNT AGREE MORE

[Dave13]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 9:35am

Bettyboy72 said: "Confusing no. Rather stupid, yes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the show but I don't think anyone is really invested in you needing to follow things. You get who is "good", who is "bad" and then it's quiet and then it's loud and then it's over stimulating and then Josh sings and them more overstimulation. 

I agreed with many reviews that said it's like a confection without much heart. I got the themes but I never really knew anyone enough to truly care. Beautifully staged, sung and acted but the book is rather atrocious and many of the songs are mediocre. 

 

"

This pretty much sums up my experience. I loved the originality of the set, design and staging. I was more in awe watching the show and lighting. It's a fun show as you get to interact with the cast. That said I didn't care for the songs and I gave up paying attention to the storyline.  As much as I loved the originality, I doubt I would see it again.  

[rjm516]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 11:21am

If it was all of War and Peace or even 1/3 of it then I would understand confusion, or the need for the character outline in the program, or the need to mention how confusing it is in the prologue. But it's like 1/6 of it, and it's the thinnest, most straightforward, most normal part of it (girl is engaged, girl falls in lust with a bad boy, things don't work out with bad boy, girl flips out). Like...come on people! I WISH it was more confusing because I wish it had more of the substance of the larger story. As is stands, the story they chose to present is no different from most romance-based dramas. The staging is wonderful and clever, but it covers up a pretty bland (-ly edited) story. 

And re the score as discussed above, some of it is wonderful but using directly translated lines from the novel does not make it good or clever or interesting. I saw so many eyes rolling when the characters would say their stage directions as lifted from the text, like "Natasha walks towards him" or whatever. 

Updated On: 1/5/17 at 11:21 AM

[hork]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 11:41am

HogansHero said: "To reiterate, no one has suggested that it defies comprehension. If War and Peace can be comprehended, this can. What's being discussed here (this seems obvious but apparently isn't universally) is whether vast swaths of the non-theatre-going audience leave more confused than they arrived, and whether that condition makes the overall experience less than they would want. 


Literally no one is discussing that, as A. it's been established that yes, many people are leaving confused, and B. of course it makes the experience less than they would want. What is being discussed, per the original post, is whether the show is confusing and, if not, why some people think it is. This seems obvious but apparently isn't universally.

[hork]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 11:43am

icecreambenjamin said:

Yeah Tolstoy is terrible.  War and Peace is an atrocious story.

In all seriousness the score is kind of brilliant and I don't understand what book there is to even be atrocious.  I feel like most people who claim that the score is terrible or mediocre,  don't get it.  Many of the lyrics are directly inspired from pieces of text in that 70 page piece of War and Peace.  Malloy has done a brillant job translating Tolstoy's novel into song.  Also, I think the show has a lot of heart, especially in the final scene between Pierre and Natasha.  The score probably needs a couple of listens to fully comprehend how layered and complex it is, but it is certainly better than mediocre.

 

Oh, awesome, it's the old "if you didn't like it it must mean you didn't get it" argument! Tell us more so we can get it and, thus, like it!

 

[hork]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 11:47am

newintown said:
Another thing to remember is that in a small theatre (or listening to the recording), anyone is going to find it much easier to follow the text than in any Broadway house, where the trend has been, for years, to overamplify and muddle the sound.

 

The sound at the Imperial is perfect. I didn't miss a single word. So that's another reason why I'm confused by the confusion.

 

[Leaf Coneybear]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 12:11pm

If it was all of War and Peace or even 1/3 of it then I would understand confusion, or the need for the character outline in the program, or the need to mention how confusing it is in the prologue. But it's like 1/6 of it, and it's the thinnest, most straightforward, most normal part of it (girl is engaged, girl falls in lust with a bad boy, things don't work out with bad boy, girl flips out). Like...come on people! 

I think the confusion is more with the characters than with the plot. Like people not knowing the relationship between Anatole and Helene. Obviously this would lead to further confusions in the show. And like it was mentioned before, sometimes people who aren't regular theater goers don't pay attention as much as they should, because in concerts and other events (or even just other shows) you don't need full attention to understand the material. 

Updated On: 1/5/17 at 12:11 PM

[newintown]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 12:17pm

"The sound at the Imperial is perfect."

Haven't seen it there, and probably won't. One viewing was enough for me. Happy to hear your opinion, but I'm skeptical. I found the sound good for The Visit, but that's the only Broadway show in the past few years that I would say was not over-amplified. However, those are my standards, and perhaps not yours.

"In all seriousness the score is kind of brilliant..."

It struck me as standard Music-Theatre-Pop-Lite-101, with much more recitative than most, but that sort of thing sometimes resonates quite successfully with the masses; witness the popularity of Les Miz, Next To Normal, etc.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 12:28pm

I too found the sound design unusually good, at least from the banquettes, especially considering that the cast is pretty much all over that house.

As far as the confusion issue, I was slightly confused at all the Bolkonsky stuff when I listened to the recording, but those characters sort of come out of nowhere and disappear. On the whole, I think the staging is pretty clear- the family tree is helpful because characters do sort of pop up without much explanation and have similar names (Mary vs Marya). The Helene/Anatole confusion doesn't make any sense to me though- Anatole is literally introduced as "Helene's brother". 

[South Florida]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 2:44pm

I'll let ya know.  If I get it on Saturday, anyone can get it.  I have decided to take the extra time to read the program, and know nothing of "War and Peace", or mores during 19th century Russia.

[SarahNYC2]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 2:50pm

I was just talking with a friend about this-I completely don't get the confusion. I went in really knowing nothing. And even though I was an English major, and I am an avid reader-I could never get into War and Peace so it's not like I know the book well or even at all. I just skimmed the summary and got it completely.

[Steve C.]

Posted: 1/5/17 at 3:49pm

Hey SF

I PM'd you; have a blast this weekend.

S

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/6/17 at 10:50am

GreasedLightning said: "It also doesn't help that everyone's got nine different names

 

"

This was my thought and I haven't seen the show. But I remember how confused I was when I first tried to read WAR AND PEACE as a teenager. I picked it up again about 10 years ago, after having read and taught Chekhov, Gorky and Mayakovsky, and was shocked at how easy it was to read.

But until one gets used to Russian patronymics, the multiple naming can be VERY confusing.

 

[Kad]

Posted: 1/6/17 at 11:01am

I don't find the show at all confusing, since the plot is pretty simple. The character diagram in the program is useful as a primer for how everyone fits together without having to know War and Peace and the opening number is playful way to not only introduce the characters, but the tone of the show and to dismiss any preconceived notions about seeing a piece of theatre based on Russian literature.