Sad to see Honeymoon go...and this disturbing trend- Page 2

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 9:05am

This declaration of abruptness and demise is absolutely ludicrous. We're talking about commercial for-profit theatre, here. The market dictates the product and the demand. If there is an audience for the show, it will sell. They'll buy the $300+ tickets to see it. If there isn't an audience for it, then it closes. It's truly that simple. While a discussion of original source content and artistic merit is worthy and admirable, it shouldn't be included in a discussion of commercial for-profit theatre. A show either sells or it doesn't. Regardless of its appeal, aesthetic, or subject matter.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 9:32am

This is a "trend" like NYT trend pieces are about trends.

[Kad]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 9:34am

Whizzer is right. There was a Golden Age of musical theatre, but even then the vast majority of shows closed at a loss. 

The notion of "mega-hit musicals" is only from the 1980s- a decade of conspicuous consumption.

And we're doling out the title of "original" to Honeymoon in Vegas, a retro throwback based off of a film? To Holler if You Hear Me, based on a song catalog? To Rocky, adapted from one of the most iconic films of all time? 

You also neglect to mention that the majority of the flop shows you list were received with either mixed or poor reviews, from critics and audience alike. 

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 10:10am

Yet most hits didn't even get instant acclaim from critics like The Sound of Music, Fiddler on the Roof, Pippin, Beauty & the Beast, Aida, Mamma Mia!, Wicked, The Color Purple, Mary Poppins, Rock of Ages, Memphis, Motown, Beautiful: The Carole King Musical, etc.

Updated On: 4/3/15 at 10:10 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 10:14am

Part of growing up is accepting that things aren't going to be popular merely because you think they're good.

 

People are going to disagree with you (and they may be right).

[After Eight]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 10:20am

"The price of decent tickets is so prohibitively expensive that the theater becomes an entertainment choice of only splurging tourists, devoted junkies (like us on this site) and the very rich/very old. "


What makes you think the "very old" have the money to plunk down for exorbitantly-priced tickets? Did you ever hear of the concept of living on a fixed income? That is the reality for many of "the very old."

"the blue-haired ladies"

"the old folks love the nostalgic stuff"

You have an ageism problem.

The various arguments you've proffered in this thread are highly defective. I don't even want to bother dealing with them.

 

 
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[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 10:23am

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[brucebossa]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 10:32am

I'm one of those "old" people, being over 65.  I saw HONEYMOON and didn't care for it.  I saw AMERICAN IDIOT 4 times and thought it was the Best Musical of that season, far better than the Tony winner MEMPHIS, which I also enjoyed.  So I don't think you can categorize OLD PEOPLE.  At least not me.

What old people bring to the theater is sometimes a perspective of theater history - one of my favorite shows ever was SHE LOVES ME which ran under a year, lost money and has never really made money in any major production.  Yet it is, by some, considered a classic.  Time will tell about HONEYMOON.  

I'm not a fan of LES MISERABLES, and yet it continues on.  I hold no grudge against it!  Just don't categorize these sections of people - old people, gay people, blue collar, white collar - they don't all have the same taste in a group.  Except everyone loves HAMILTON, as do I !!!

 

 

 

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 10:38am

I think the musical's main problem was the 'Curse of the Honeymoon.'

The word 'honeymoon' is the kiss of death. I don't want to see a musical with the word 'honeymoon' in it.

It instantly conjures thoughts of movies such as Fatal Honeymoon, Deadly Honeymoon, Dark Honeymoon, Haunted Honeymoon, Honeymoon for One, and Zombie Honeymoon.

They should have named the musical "What Happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas."

Two escapees of the curse: The Honeymooners TV show and Aba Daba Honeymoon

 

Updated On: 4/3/15 at 10:38 AM

[brucebossa]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 10:55am

Interesting thought about the word HONEYMOON, but personally I think the word VEGAS helped to kill it.

 

And as others have stated, it was NOT an abrupt closing.  Everyone, pretty much, in the theater and business community saw this coming for months and months.  It was only this unique circumstance of people throwing money at it that made it seem abrupt... because one day they woke up and said, OY!  We can't do this anymore!  It's not working and nothing, even Tony nominations, is going to get this up over $500K a week.

Updated On: 4/3/15 at 10:55 AM

[After Eight]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 11:25am

"Except everyone loves HAMILTON,"

Uhhhhhh, not everyone.

[After Eight]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 11:28am

"Yet most hits didn't even get instant acclaim from critics like .... Fiddler on the Roof"

It most certainly did.

[Huey's Pop]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 11:34am

Living in Los Angeles, I always hope that a show becomes a hit so it will tour and I'll get to see it. Do you think there's any chance that HiV will tour? 

[brucebossa]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 11:52am

As I recall, FIDDLER did not get instant acclaim in it's pre-Broadway phase but it certainly did after opening night on Broadway.  It was an enormously acclaimed show the day after it opened.

[Demitri2]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 11:52am

And back in the Golden Age countless shows would close after opening night especially if they received a pan from the NY Times. Some even closed in previews in NY or during out of town tryouts. It seems shows nowadays hang in there for a much longer time even running at a loss.  

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 12:11pm

"The target audience for these types of shows -- 20 - 40 somethings -- just don't make it out to the theater all that much, in large measure because it's too damn expensive."

Hey! 20-40 something here! While I agree that tickets are expensive without discounts, if it's something I want to see I find a way to make it work. I didn't want to see Honeymoon in Vegas or Rocky. It's not that I was desperate to see these shows but just priced out.

"But most of humanity doesn't want to, have the patience to, or the flexibility in their schedule to wait until the last minute to maybe, possibly, get tickets to the show they want to see. Most potential customers want the comfort and convenience of being able to select tickets for the show they want to see well in advance. TDF/rush is not on their radar."

People who have discount tickets on their radars... people with the patience and flexibility to wait for rush or TKTS or other discounts... you're describing a lot of 20-40 something's there. These people are going to the theatre. They don't mind seeing revivals. But if you want to get them to see a new musical you have to actually try and make that new musical something they'd want to see. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 12:17pm

Yes, those lines at TKTS are never long with tourists.

 

There is a difference between a tourist and a theater goer.  The average tourist coming to NY is likely only going to see one or maybe two shows in a vacation week....there is plenty of other things left to do in NY.

 

Theater goers...the ones that plan a trip AROUND bway or can make it into the city multiple time a year for that express reason know about discounts.

[Jayar2]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 12:48pm

I saw the show, and I very much enjoyed it. Am I sad that it is closing?  Yes because I would like the people who work on the show to be able to continue to have a place to go to work. I wish for all of them to find another show and sooner than later.  The thing that I am upset about is that Jason Robert Brown has not had a hit on Broadway. That man is a genius, and for some reason his shows just don't sell well. I would love to see him have a bit hit-- but not at the cost of his integrity.  Even more than that, I am appalled that Phantom is still open. Yes, I would feel just as bad for the out of work employees, but I can't even with that show. Enough is enough is enough is enough. THAT'S ENOUGH!  I have fantasies about winning the PowerBall, and spending all of my winnings on buying that theater so that I can kick that show to the curb. #irrationalhate

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 1:39pm

Even more than that, I am appalled that Phantom is still open. Yes, I would feel just as bad for the out of work employees, but I can't even with that show. Enough is enough is enough is enough. THAT'S ENOUGH!  I have fantasies about winning the PowerBall, and spending all of my winnings on buying that theater so that I can kick that show to the curb.


Lol, what does that have to do with Honeymoon in Vegas?

Updated On: 4/3/15 at 01:39 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 1:46pm

"The thing that I am upset about is that Jason Robert Brown has not had a hit on Broadway. That man is a genius, "

"Genius?" Boy, is that word ever bandied about cavalierly nowadays. It was bad enough to see it conferred upon the Great One. Now, it's bestowed upon Jason Robert Brown as well?

If these people are geniuses, i wonder what that makes Shakespeare and Mozart.

"and for some reason his shows just don't sell well."

"For some reason?" Maybe that reason is his shows stink and so do his scores.

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 2:13pm

"Yet most hits didn't even get instant acclaim from critics like .... Fiddler on the Roof"

"It most certainly did."

Here's How Sheldon Harnick Remembers It...

Updated On: 4/3/15 at 02:13 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 3:24pm

re "genius"...

 

I agree this is one of those silly words but not because of some present tense individual assessment of  someone's work. It's like "classic" and other similar labels: none of them are meaningful without looking through a lens that by definition cannot possibly exist in a non-historical context. As long as their are people living who can relate to the original work, these terms are inherently inapt. Calling someone "gifted" seems much more reasonable. 

Many geniuses were not acclaimed in the own time, and many who were acclaimed have been tossed into the dustbin of history. The Catholic Church gets a lot of things wrong, but in this area, they get it right: the notion of beatification and canonization has death as a prerequisite. 

It is also foolhardy to assess genius in relative terms. The label cannot be separated from its place and time. And only history can judge the true significance of any intellect.

[SweetLips]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 3:44pm

This thread has so many side comments to the topic so here's mine.

As mentioned elsewhere, in Australia we don't get the variety of ticket prices like America-the theatre lists the prices ,usually with pensioner concession and that's it, and cheaper for matinee.

There's no waiting for your rush/ lottery/half tix[sometime], student[sometime].

So decision is purely based on whether this is what you want to see-not price-except for buying a ticket in the 'cheap seats'.

You make the decision factoring in price, music, hype, appeal, advertising, personality, snob appeal, story-whatever.

It's not a disturbing trend just a personal choice, and people chose NOT to see Honeymoon.

[Sauja]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 4:57pm

It wasn't a revival or a London import, but neither are Fun Home or Something Rotten, and they're off to great starts. Hamilton has an enormous advance, and like the other two I mentioned, it's also not an adaptation of a second tier movie a la the named Honeymoon or Bridges. Some shows work. Others don't. And sometimes something you think is great will be derided and sometimes it will close "too soon." I was a big fan of Rocky and The Last Ship. Critics hates them and they didn't find audiences. It happens. I'm sad when it happens to shows I live, but it's th reality of the business. You can't say it's a sign that new musicals are all ranking in the face of so many that are actually working very, very well at this exact moment.

[Fantod]

Posted: 4/3/15 at 5:37pm

You can read the reviews from the original Fiddler on the Roof in various ways. I found some at my local library in their news archives for a project and the reviews were some of the most glowing I've ever read.