NY Times Journalist's "Body Shaming" in 'Smokey Joe's Cafe' Review - Page 2

[binau]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 4:41pm

ColorTheHours048 said: "I don’t understand what it is we’re debating here. An actress was offended and/or embarrassed by a comment made about her appearance in relation to something that is entirely out of her control. It’s not for anyone to say whether she should or shouldn’t be offended. She was. And with good reason."

Look I'm all for the "this was unnecessary" bandwagon and agree she appears to be beautiful but doesn't this claim seem blatantly untrue? 
 

Updated On: 7/23/18 at 04:41 PM

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 4:50pm

qolbinau said: "ColorTheHours048 said: "I don’t understand what it is we’re debating here. An actress was offended and/or embarrassed by a comment made about her appearance in relation to something that is entirely out of her control. It’s not for anyone to say whether she should or shouldn’t be offended. She was. And with good reason."

Look I'm all for the "this was unnecessary" bandwagon and agree she appears to be beautifulbut doesn't this claim seemblatantly untrue?
"

Um... what? I’m not talking about her weight, I’m talking about her costume; the design and fit of which she has no control over. If Collins-Hughes wanted to make a comment about costumes, she should have done that without drawing attention to one actress’s size in relation to her castmates’.

[EthelMae]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 4:51pm

My eyebrows went up as far as they could when I got to this part of the review. Why this critic is still at the New York Times is beyond me. She usually always has a snarky thing to write in her reviews. And where is Brantley and Green anyway? I figure they're off on vacation but this is an Off-Broadway show with actors who have Broadway credits. It's not a non-Equity Showcase (which have been known to be very good, thank you). Doesn't it deserve some higher string critic from "the" paper? Very uncalled for comment. 

Updated On: 7/23/18 at 04:51 PM

[AC126748]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 5:06pm

Laura Collins-Hughes’s criticism rests entirely on the idea that larger bodies should only be dressed in a certain way. Whether she realizes it or not, that IS sizest.

[geoffreyC]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 5:11pm

"sizest" lol 

[Between 7th and 8th]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 5:14pm

ColorTheHours048 said: “Um... what? I’m not talking about her weight, I’m talking about her costume; the design and fit of which she has no control over.If Collins-Hughes wanted to make a comment about costumes, she should have done that without drawing attention to one actress’s size in relation to her castmates’."

I’m not sure what quolbinau’s rather rude post was about. I understood what you intended ColorTheHours048.

I think without addressing an example of why she wasn’t fond of the costumes, the critique would’ve been lazy. By using direct examples, she’s showing why she feels the way she does. I do not believe she is placing any blame on the garment not working on the actress. She’s just giving us a direct example and explanation of her critique. 

In her opinion, one garment didn’t work well in the show because it didn’t suit a heavier woman’s figure. That’s a hit at the designer, not the actress. 

[binau]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 5:15pm

geoffreyC said: ""sizest" lol"

I know it sounds comical but it exists. I’d be much more concerned about wanting to be a leading lady while being overweight than I would be other characteristics we typically are concerned with here, such as race. That said, I guess at least you can control weight to a certain extent. 

[AC126748]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 5:16pm

There’s nothing comical about sizism. It exists. People are constantly discriminated against based on how their bodies are perceived.

[binau]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 5:17pm

Between 7th and 8th said: "ColorTheHours048 said:“Um... what? I’m not talking about her weight, I’m talking about her costume; the design and fit of which she has no control over.If Collins-Hughes wanted to make a comment about costumes, she should have done that without drawing attention to one actress’s size in relation to her castmates’."

I’m not sure what quolbinau’s rather rude post was about. I understood what you intended ColorTheHours048.

I think without addressing an example of why she wasn’t fond of the costumes, the critique would’ve been lazy. By using direct examples, she’s showing why she feels the way she does. I do not believe she is placing any blame on the garment not working on the actress. She’s just giving us a direct example and explanationof her critique.

In her opinion, one garment didn’t work well in the show because it didn’t suit a heavier woman’s figure. That’s a hit at the designer, not the actress."

Come on anyone can honestly see the ambiguity of what has happened here. I don’t think I need to explain it, but if I need to point it out re-read the review and look at the comments made about her appearance. 

[ntrackbar]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 7:09pm

There are 100 better ways to have done this. Not to mention, there were multiple people that read that and thought "yes. this is something that should go into the paper of record."

Unnecessary. 

Unprofessional. 

Unsubscribing. 

[bk]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 8:06pm

Does a day go by, I wonder, when you people don't have outrage about something?  Have you people ever read John Simon's reviews?  This is just more social media BS.  A critic made a remark, basically criticizing a costume.  And here it's the end of the world and all the cliches come out full force.  I mean, this thread is hilarious.

[jv92]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 8:11pm

What I find more offensive and upsetting is that Ben Vereen was there opening night posing for pictures and smiling and making jazz hands after his disgusting behavior during the production of HAIR he directed in Florida recently. That's okay now? 

 

And bk is right. Not that I condone Mr. Simon's attacks on the physical attributes of actresses, but he said Liza had the face of a beagle and commented on Madeline Kahn's breast size in print. They went on with their lives and performing careers. Mr. Simon is, unfortunately, still reviewing (for a pennysaver) but this lady's criticism is nothing. 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 8:21pm

Just a really rude comment on Umphress, who is super gorgeous and curvy in all the right places. She's a great performer and it sucks to me that her entire performance is basically ignored to focus on the shape of her body as if it is her only defining factor. Can we stop acting like actors need to look a certain way? Can't we just have humans onstage telling human stories? I like seeing curvy, plus-sized, and overweight actors onstage because they have stories to tell just like everyone else and if we don't nuture diversity and communicate those stories, everyone onstage would look the same and we would just see the same story over and over again, which we basically already do.

[jv92]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 8:29pm

GeorgeandDot said: "Just a really rude comment on Umphress, who is super gorgeous and curvy in all the right places. She's a great performer and it sucks to me that her entire performance is basically ignored to focus on the shape of her body as if it is her only defining factor. Can we stop acting like actors need to look a certain way? Can't we just have humans onstage telling human stories? I like seeing curvy, plus-sized, and overweight actors onstage because they have stories to tell just like everyone else and if we don't nuture diversity and communicate those stories, everyone onstage would look the same and we would just see the same story over and over again, which we basically already do."

 

I agree with all of that, but guess what? Without social media, this would have passed over, Umphress would have gone on being terrific and no one would have cared about this nonsense or thought about her appearance. The critic in question has syntax problems. If she meant to criticize the costumes, it didn't seem that way. But I'm not going to be outraged over it. Vereen on the other hand really bothers me... and a lot more than this non-story. 

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 8:32pm

"Ms. Umphress, by the way, is bigger than the other women onstage" is a wickedly unnecessary and insensitive comment. You can say that the costumes are not flattering without making a direct comment about a particular actor's body."

Exactly. It was not necessary and I am very surprised that a woman would do this to another woman in 2018.  It's sad and I hope she apologizes.  

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 8:36pm

Well then it's a good thing we have social media. Comments like these have been thrown at women and men too in reviews for decades. It's just not ok anymore and it needs to stop. I'm happy Umphress spoke up and expressed that the insensitive choice of words hurt her. I've seen a lot of actors "suck it up" when faced with comments like that and frankly, they shouldn't have to. It's uncalled for and they have the right to be upset. Between stuff like this, the Chicago situation, and the me too movement, it's time we stop normalizing the bullying of actors as if it's just part of the job.

[Sauja]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 8:58pm

I looked at the photos on the show’s website and only see one of Umphress. In it, her three female costars are in short, fitted, sleeveless dresses and (I think) stockings. Umphress’ dress has sleeves, it appears quite baggy, and she’s wearing opaque tights. It looks a bit, to me, like a bad designer choosing to hide as much of her body as possible. Which I don’t think is necessary because she IS a beautiful, shapely woman as has been mentioned here. There seem to be designers who can’t seem to successfully deviate from one very specific body type (usually that of a slender dancer). I feel like the intention was to call out a designer for that failure. But!! As a fat person myself, I can understand the horror of seeing myself described in print as “larger than the rest of the cast.” It feels like the critic might have had the best intentions and just not have understood how her remarks would be perceived. I’ll be curious to see if she responds.

[oncemorewithfeeling2]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 10:24pm

GeorgeandDot said: "Just a really rude comment on Umphress, who is super gorgeous and curvy in all the right places. She's a great performer and it sucks to me that her entire performance is basically ignored to focus on the shape of her body as if it is her only defining factor. Can we stop acting like actors need to look a certain way? Can't we just have humans onstage telling human stories? I like seeing curvy, plus-sized, and overweight actors onstage because they have stories to tell just like everyone else and if we don't nuture diversity and communicate those stories, everyone onstage would look the same and we would just see the same story over and over again, which we basically already do."

This. All of this so much.

The issue of sizism needs to be confronted in theater in realistic ways...not just stories about plus sizes or fat camps.  Larger actors shouldn’t feel like they’re destined to only be the fat, quirky friend. And female actresses shouldn’t feel like there’s no place for them if they’re the dreaded size 8/10–to fat to be a leading actress, not fat enough for side kick.

[VernonGersch]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 11:02pm

Laura Collins Hughes attempting, inarticulately, to justify her vile body shaming on Twitter is the perfect illustration that SHE is not worthy to be writing at The Times.  Also, did she update her review at all? 

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 7/23/18 at 11:11pm

When I see writers in high-profile editorial jobs, who pen problematic articles and are frequently bashed by readers, it just makes me angry. I'm having trouble getting hired for any writing position- let alone THEATRE CRITIC AT THE NEW YORK TIMES- and God forbid that kind of company takes a chance on a greenhorn who might actually be wiser when it comes writing for the contemporary audience.

Sorry for the mini-rant...

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 12:12am

If the point was not to throw shade at Umphress (which I personally don't think it was), then this was really poorly worded. Which is fine for the average person but a NYT journalist should be held to a higher standard since putting words together is kind of her job.

That said, is the criticism valid that the designer seemed to put Umphress in more unflattering clothes because he does not know how to dress her body type? Because I do think it's lazy for designers to not know how to outfit a diverse range of body types. Alysha can be beautiful and she can still be in a costume that isn't doing its best to showcase that. Both things can be true.

oncemorewithfeeling2 said: "It just adds to the misconception that larger women are difficult to dress, have no sense of style, or can’t wear stylish clothing."

I think bad designing is what actually perpetuates that misconception. Look up comments by Alber Elbaz or Karl Lagerfeld. It's laziness and prejudice. You don't have to hate larger bodies to critique designers for their failures in providing fashionable, flattering clothing for them. It's only in recent years that companies like Eloquii and Lane Bryant have started providing fashionable options for plus sized women.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 1:27am

It's a breach of common civility in any generation to publicly call someone else fat. But I'm not at all certain that the overweight person is done any service by telling him or her the he or she looks just as good as one who is not overweight. Not if the person is capable of losing weight.

You know that being overweight is a great threat to one's health. Ella Fitzgerald, who was a diabetic, suffered through many painful medical conditions over the last years of her life, including the amputation of both legs. Cass Elliot died in her sleep while performing live in London at age 32. The coroner found no drug involvement. But she weighed twice what she should and one of her heart muscles had turned to mush.

[A Director]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 3:47am

Yes, the comments are "body shaming."  As for the further explanation from Laura Collins-Hughes, perhaps she miswrote.  Did she attend the Donald Trump School For Theatre Reviewing?  I read other reviews and no other critic had a problem with the costumes!

As for some of the postings on this thread, I could give a rat's ass about what John Simon wrote years ago. <<edited by BWW staff>>.

I don't give a rat's ass about comments by French Designers or what clothes Lane Bryant and others are selling now.  The comments have nothing to do with costume designs!

OlBlueEyes, you don't know a thing about Alysha Umphress' health and if she is or isn't overweight, <<edited by BWW staff>>!  <<edited by BWW staff>>!

Updated On: 7/24/18 at 03:47 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 7:39am

Between 7th and 8th wrote: "I think the discussion has been pretty good so far. Would love to hear your thoughts!"

It has been, for this site, mostly civil, hasn't it?

Since you ask: I don't think it's "body shaming" in the least. I have no idea if Hughes is a woman of Juno-esque proportions or slender, but all she did was acknowledge a reality, which is innocuous, and state an opinion, which many readers seem to absolutely live for (hanging on breathlessly to every utterance of any reviewer or blogger with a keyboard).

There are some who think that any statement other than gushing praise is an insult, but I think that's reflective of the "every child gets a prize" mindset. Personally, I think a Sunshine and Lollipops world would be not only dull, but rather psychopathic, like some sort of Twilight Zone episode.

Updated On: 7/24/18 at 07:39 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 7/24/18 at 8:12am

Is it any worse than the “I’M not offended, therefore it’s not offensive” crowd that pops up in threads like this?