Harmony word-of-mouth

[pair-o-dice]

Posted: 12/20/23 at 11:48am

Hello,

Had an interesting conversation with a friend yesterday who had just seen Harmony.  We both LOVED the show.  I've seen it a few times and everytime the audience has seemed to love it as well.  I've had several friends and family members see it and rave about it early on in its run. So, my friend and I were chatting about why it's not selling better with what should be very strong word-of-mouth amongst the traditional theater goers (and matinee ladies, TDF crowd, etc).

My friend said she believes it might have to do with fatigue on the subject matter.  She said two years ago when it was downtown it probably felt more like a warning of what could come, or a call to action, whereas now it feels like we were living it in the present.  She said it was hard to witness on stage (knowing what was happening in the real world) but that it was well worth it.  We both believe it is told beautifully and with incredible passion and performances and that the show is ultimately cathartic.

We also questioned if there isn't a bit of anti-semitism or complete wanting to avoid any tough "political discussions" surrounding potential ticket buyers.

Just curious what other opinions are on this.  It feels like it should be selling better.  General pubic enjoys it.  Recognizable composer.  Cute guys in tuxedos singing big Broadway standard fare.  Relevant story.  Two leading ladies and a Broadway favorite starring in it.  

Thoughts?

[BETTY22]

Posted: 12/20/23 at 1:02pm

It feels like this wonderful show is carrying the worry of the world on its shoulders at the moment.

I hope they can ride out a rough January and turn a corner - I also hope the world can turn a corner very soon toooooooo

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 12:05am

On the other hand…

I was in a party of four.  2 hated it, 1 thought it was okay, one liked — but didn’t love — it.  I have subsequently discussed it with several others I know who saw it.  So there’s about 10 people, only one of whom would recommend it to anyone.  Small sample, admittedly, but —based on generally mixed reviews — probably representative of a good segment of the audience.  It is also possible for audiences to applaud wildly for the performers and not like the show that much.

i have seen many shows where, based on the applause, you’d expect the show to be a monster hit.  It doesn’t always work that way.  Example: the audience applauded wildly at the performance of NYNY I saw.

Finally, while maybe not topic fatigue, something in which Nazis are part of the story still needs to be really good right now, between last season’s Leopoldstadt, and this season’s A Prayer…, and the upcoming Cabaret.  The bar is very high.  IMO Harmony, though well intentioned, does not meet the bar.

Updated On: 12/21/23 at 12:05 AM

[quizking101]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 6:43am

See, when I saw it in previews, of the eight people in my immediate vicinity - seven left during intermission. I stayed for Act II, despite my inclination to leave as well.

It’s one of those musicals where the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Yes, it shines a light on a forgotten group of historical talents, but I left not really feeling like I learned more than what I could garner from Wikipedia. On top of that, overall the production felt very unfocused and not sure of what exactly it wanted to be - memory play? bio-musical? cautionary tale? By the end, I just found it very hard to care about any of them. (Also, I found Chip Zien having to pop in and out of the flashbacks as various characters in different wigs and accents rather preposterous)

For a musical that has been in the works for almost as long as I’ve been alive, I feel like it should’ve gotten its head on right and instead it felt like it was just a casualty of its own wandering mind. And that looooooong opening number? Yikes.

 

[Det95]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 8:53am

pair-o-dice said: "We also questioned if there isn't a bit of anti-semitism or complete wanting to avoid any tough "political discussions" surrounding potential ticket buyers."

I think this has a little to do with it, the tough discussions part. My mom who I go to 90% of shows with won't see anything having to do with the black experience since theatre started back up again. She says that she doesn't want to be lectured at, and made to feel bad for 2.5 hours. I on the other hand while yes I go to the theatre to escape and have fun, I also go to be challenged and forced to think. 

 

[yyys]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 9:24am

The direction of Harmony is pretty bad. That's the word of mouth I gave to friends who haven't seen it.

Updated On: 12/21/23 at 09:24 AM

[GottaGetAGimmick420]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 10:50am

yyys said: "The direction of Harmony is pretty bad. That's the word of mouth I gave to friends who haven't seen it."

This I agree with. After Secret Garden, I was hoping for better, but not surprised. I thought the direction was sloppy sloppy. But also that set.... awful. And so shiny. I've never seen a show with a production design so freaking shiny.

[ardiem]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 10:59am

Not just shiny, but from my vantage point it looked filthy, with visible streaks across the stage floor and cluttered with neon tape marks. I'd expect the stage to wear out over time, but this was early in previews.

Updated On: 12/21/23 at 10:59 AM

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 11:19am

I thought it was pretty bad. Good story, great cast, but poor execution. The show meant well, but I thought it was very rough. Also HATED the set.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 12:11pm

Harmony and How to Dance in Ohio really needed glowing reviews and word of mouth to pull a Kimberly Akimbo and make it to the Tonys and beyond. That's definitely not happening and even if they somehow made it to the Tonys, I don't see them winning anything so I have a hard time believing either show gets past January.

[OhHiii]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 2:17pm

Mr. Wormwood said: "Harmony and How to Dance in Ohio really needed glowing reviews and word of mouth to pull a Kimberly Akimbo and make it to the Tonys and beyond. That's definitely not happening and even if they somehow made it to the Tonys, I don't see them winning anything so I have a hard time believing either show gets past January."

Even Kimberly Akimbo would have had a very difficult time surviving to the Tonys with the sales they saw even after reviews had David Stone and his co-producers not shoveled out the $$ to cover losses for months and months. Reviews are no longer a silver bullet for success. Even its Tony win didn't send its grosses high. It will close at a loss.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 9:49pm

Mr. Wormwood said: "Harmony and How to Dance in Ohio really needed glowing reviews and word of mouth to pull a Kimberly Akimbo and make it to the Tonys and beyond. That's definitely not happening and even if they somehow made it to the Tonys, I don't see them winning anything so I have a hard time believing either show gets past January."

Unless all the upcoming musicals stink, I’d be shocked if it got more than 1 nomination.  Waiting for the Tony’s is a joke, especially since the only things that benefit are best musical and maybe best musical revival, neither of which this will be nominated for, let alone win.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 10:27pm

I think this show and Ohio, just don’t feel of Broadway caliber production wise. Like if I’m paying $100+ for a ticket I’d want some spectacle or something. These both feel like bloated off broadway shows .

[John Adams]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 11:01pm

Although what you and your friends feel re: "word of mouth" might be actual fact, reality might be different.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 12/21/23 at 11:59pm

Jarethan said: "Finally, while maybe not topic fatigue, something in which Nazis are part of the story still needs to be really good right now, between last season’s Leopoldstadt, and this season’s A Prayer…, and the upcoming Cabaret. The bar is very high. IMO Harmony, though well intentioned, does not meet the bar."

I think it's something broader than Nazis. If a show is thematically a downer, it's got to be excellent. Aside from Holocaust related shows, Harmony also isn't as good as other musicals with sad endings such as Hadestown and the upcoming Days of Wine and Roses.    

Audiences are more forgiving of shows with a feel-good ending.

[John Adams]

Posted: 12/22/23 at 12:39am

Jonathan Cohen said: "Audiences are more forgiving of shows with a feel-good ending."

Like "Cabaret"? I disagree with you.

I think that Barry Manilow is a master at writing melodies, lyrics and jingles that have universal, emotional appeal.  That kind of exceptional talent however, only needs to succeed for a short interval.

Manilow's strength as a composer lies in his ability to encapsulate a complete story in just a few minutes (hence his amazing gift for capturing emotional definition in his commercial jingles). Popular songs like "Weekend in New England", "Mandy", et. al. demonstrate that incredible and unique gift.

Writing a score for a musical is different. It requires an ability to write several, individual songs that each define singularly definitive aspects that when combined, tell an entire story, as a whole. That's exactly the opposite of what defines Manilow's strengths.

For me, that's what's missing in the score for Harmony.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 12/22/23 at 12:56am

John Adams said: "Jonathan Cohen said: "Audiences are more forgiving of shows with a feel-good ending."

Like "Cabaret"? I disagree with you."

I'm not 100% clear what you're disagreeing with in terms of Caberet. That's a depressing ending but it's also one of the all-time great musicals. 

[inception]

Posted: 12/22/23 at 9:48am

I disagree that Harmony doesn't feel Broadway calibre.  The book reminded me of other shows.  In fact it reminded me a lot of Tina.  Sort of let's encapsulate some really traumatic true events with witty banter.  Tina had hit songs to spackle over the book problems.  Here the songs are either cute or melodramatic, bu unfortunately most just  aren't memorable. 

It is an interesting story, about a survivor looking back & finding fault with decisions they made when they were younger.  Who doesn't wish they could go back in time & help their younger selves make better decisions?  Unfortunately they flatten so much of the real lives into stereotypes - the waiter who chainsmokes, the guy who remembers lots of famous quotes, the angry young activist girl etc.  It has good moments, but in the end it all just feels very flat.

RippedMan said: "I think this show and Ohio, just don’t feel of Broadway caliber production wise. Like if I’m paying $100+ for a ticket I’d want some spectacle or something. These both feel like bloated off broadway shows ."

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/22/23 at 11:49am

So, in answer to the original question, the show is NOT getting great word of mouth because it is a downer that is not good enough to compensate for that; the production looks cheap; the score is not a quality Broadway score, it doesn’t really earn its ability to make some people feel sad at the end…the basic subject accounts for that.

…and it it going to look worse when Cabaret opens.

Updated On: 12/22/23 at 11:49 AM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/22/23 at 12:01pm

Jarethan said: "So, in answer to the original question, the show is NOT getting great word of mouth because it is a downer that is not good enough to compensate for that; the production looks cheap; the score is not a quality Broadway score, it doesn’t really earn its ability to make some people feel sad at the end…the basic subject accounts for that.

…and it it going to look worse when Cabaret opens."

If I can simplify the WOM problem even further: I do not think audiences care about the characters as individuals, and that hurts it more than anything. Theoretically, the score and physical production wouldn't be a problem if the book and structure worked properly. There's also a big dissonance between what people expect from Barry Manilow vs what he's giving us here.

In movies, the "CinemaScore" is tabulated on opening weekend with a series of questions on a card, and is usually a reaction of expectations vs reality. And I'd be intrigued to know what the Cinemascore of this musical is.

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 12/24/23 at 1:37am

I had really enjoyed this off-Broadway and seeing it again on Broadway made me realize how weak the first act is.  I still liked the show, but I think it has some major structural issues and that could be contributing to how audiences feel about it.  Anecdotally, I'd say word of mouth is generally more positive than people on this board (but that's usually the case I've found), but I wonder if maybe there's just not something that makes it a "must-see" show.  The ending feels inspirational but it almost comes off as cheap sentiment because you don't know what the takeaway is supposed to be (is it Rabbi coming to terms with his memories? Or is it just knowing that this group existed?  There's not really a call to action or a huge message besides just "hey, you should know about these guys").

So I think it's also kind of a hard show to talk about in terms of why someone should care.  I've kind of described it as "first act Jersey Boys, second act Nazis" to explain what the show is about, but it's not necessarily something that really excites people.  Part of it may also be Nazi fatigue or the wish to not be involved in current political controversy as well.  And while I did think the Comedian Harmonists were interesting, I agree with the reviews that said the show never made a huge case for why they should be remembered, other than the fact that they were unjustly erased from history, which could be said about a lot of people/groups.

I thought Michael Bosner said something interesting about Shucked, where it was on a lot of people's to-watch lists, but it was never at the top, and I wonder if Harmony is the same.  With ticket prices rising, people might be more selective about shows they're watching and maybe they're interested in Barry Manilow or a story about a forgotten musical group, but they might be more interested in a show with a celebrity or some IP that they're already familiar with.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 12/24/23 at 3:25am

I saw Harmony a few weeks ago and thought it was a good but not great show. Glad I saw it but not one I'm going to rush to recommend to friends that they must see. For reasons I can't explain, I saw Manilow's name and assumed that it was some sort of jukebox musical. Obviously, that was a completely incorrect assumption,. Candidly, I thought the score was OK but pretty forgettable. I thought the show itself felt like "Indecent light" in a musical form. It just felt a lot less compelling than I found Indecent which although about a completely different group of performers, was still in the "creative and successful artists persecuted by the Nazis".genre. I just never got as invested in these individuals as I did the performers in Indecent nor was this show as successful in creating the sense of danger and menace these individuals faced from the Nazis as Indecent was.. 

The growing wave of antisemitism as a result of Israel's war with Hamas probably isn't helping either but on balance I thought it was a good show and is probably having about the level of success it deserves.

[bear88]

Posted: 12/24/23 at 4:55am

My wife and I seriously considered Harmony but I read enough on this board to give me pause. The comments weren’t brutal overall but my sense was that it’s a show with a weak opening act that gets better by the end. We had seen Leopoldstadt earlier this year so perhaps that didn’t help.

As for the speculation that the war in Israel is hurting the box office, let’s wait and see how Cabaret does before drawing sweeping conclusions. Harmony  seems to have the same problem as almost every new musical without stars or familiar intellectual property. They’re all tough sells.

[SisterGeorge]

Posted: 12/24/23 at 12:03pm

bear88 said: "....As for the speculation that the war in Israel is hurting the box office, let’s wait and see how Cabaret does before drawing sweeping conclusions....

And Prayer for the French Republic, a play that DID get rave reviews and had terrific word of mouth, although of course on Broadway it might be hampered by a playwright and cast that is not familiar to the general public. Personally, I think blaming Harmony's poor ticket sales on anti-semitism is meshuggeneh and dilutes efforts to combat this very sick and dangerous problem.

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/24/23 at 12:13pm

Everyone gets to like what they like (or not). In a case like this, I prefer to analyze the show's raw materials. Here:

1. Carlyle is not a director.

2. Davenport is not a producer.

3. Manilow (and Sussman) are not writers of musical theatre scores.

To these ingredients, I add that, to the extent of my knowledge, at least some of these people are either (a) not collaborators, (b) stubborn folk who think they know more than they do, or (c) both.

If you don't get the ingredients right, the cake usually doesn't rise and/or falls apart.