A STRANGE LOOP On Broadway - Reviews & News Thread- Page 18

[Kad]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 12:49pm

OffOnBwayHi said: "I'm thinking the creatives/cast are so used to the lyrics that to them it probably sounds fine... I think someone from outside the production should say something..."

Do you seriously think they’re all just… clueless? If it’s being discussed here and in reviews, it’s been discussed amongst the production. 
 

Sound design isn’t just making sure the sliders on the board are all in the right place. It takes a lot of time to make these adjustments, and it has to be done when there’s nothing else going on.

[ThisGuyLovesTheatre]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 2:12pm

I totally agree with this.

I am also a gay man around 60 years old.  I saw the show at Playwrights Horizon. It was awful. I wanted to run out of the theatre.  

It is vulgar. It's so woke it is dizzying.  The reasons it doesnt work theatrically is that it has a main character who has many serious mental health issues and for the great portion of the show, the audience is laughing at his illness. Laughing at his awful, destructive life choices. I found it sick. I don't care if the show was about black people of white people.  He acts out in very self destructive ways, including the awful anal sex scene, where again, the audience is laughing (at least they were when I saw it at PH.

The character also has no perspective on his youth, which is also a problem. There is no self awareness.

And the score sucks. The music is dreadful. The lyrics a mess.  There are ten musicals that have won the Pulitzer, To put this awful show in the same category as the other nine is a disgrace. 

and it doesn't make me a racist because I didn't like it. I've disliked plenty of shows with all white casts as well.  This is self indulgent tripe, which theatre goers are SUPPOSED to love. I can't see how what audience is going to sustain this awful show.

and yes, it is vulgar. To argue that is absurd. 

[Kad]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 2:20pm

How is it "woke"? What do you even mean by "woke"?

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 2:25pm

Joined today? Welcome! It might be confusing to someone new, but this thread is about A Strange Loop that just starting playing on Broadway. If you didn't see the show on Broadway, commenting on the specifics about it isn't really advisable. Thanks so much, and complaining about a show yet staying is deeply funny to me. 

[forfivemoreminutes]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 2:33pm

ThisGuyLovesTheatre said: "I totally agree with this.

I am also a gay man around 60 years old. I saw the show at Playwrights Horizon. It was awful. I wanted to run out of the theatre.

It is vulgar. It's so woke it is dizzying. The reasons it doesnt work theatrically is that it has a main character who has many serious mental health issues and for the great portion of the show, the audience is laughing at his illness. Laughing at his awful, destructive life choices. I found it sick. I don't care if the show was about black people of white people. He acts out in very self destructive ways, including the awful anal sex scene, where again, the audience is laughing (at least they were when I saw it at PH.

The character also has no perspective on his youth, which is also a problem. There is no self awareness.

And the score sucks. The music is dreadful. The lyrics a mess. There are ten musicals that have won the Pulitzer, To put this awful show in the same category as the other nine is a disgrace.

and it doesn't make me a racist because I didn't like it. I've disliked plenty of shows with all white casts as well. This is self indulgent tripe, which theatre goers are SUPPOSED to love. I can't see how what audience is going to sustain this awful show.

and yes, it is vulgar. To argue that is absurd."

 

The point of this musical is to show what it *feels like* to be a young Black gay man dealing with anxiety/depression/self doubt, etc. You might not be interested in stepping into that experience, which is fine. But the criticisms you point out (the musical being self indulgent, the narrator having no concept of his youth) come from the fact that the goal is to immerse you in Usher’s lived experience. No twenty-something has self awareness of their own youth…I’m in my twenties now and I would say very few of my peers do. Did you understand your own youth when YOU were 26? I think the very lack of self awareness is what makes this musical so immersive and one of the mechanisms by which it succeeds at the story it’s trying to tell

 

[ThisGuyLovesTheatre]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 2:38pm

 I've been attending theatre/Broadway for 45 years.  Why don't you have a discussion about the merits of the show rather than when I joined. It has been reported several times that the show hasn't changed that much since PH, other than the lead. So, it's the same show.  Awful. But you know, You don't have to agree with me. That is the beauty of theatre. You enjoyed it, and I think it's dreadful. 

[Kad]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 2:44pm

Well, all you've managed to offer is that you think the show is woke and vulgar and sick and awful but that you're not racist.

Updated On: 4/30/22 at 02:44 PM

[ThisGuyLovesTheatre]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 2:59pm

"Well, all you've managed to offer is that you think the show is woke and vulgar and sick and awful but that you're not racist."

I'm sorry but that is not true. I gave specific details about why I thought it didn't work, I don't appreciate the use of your word "but",  The guy at The Post didn't like it much, and he was attacked here as being a racist. So anyone that doesn't like it is apparently a racist.  I didn't like the revival of Flower Drum Song either. It doesn't mean I am racist against Asians.  This is why I called the reviews so "WOKE",  Stop insinuating things, like racism 

[Kad]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 3:18pm

You open with, "It's vulgar. It's so woke it's dizzying."

You spend a paragraph saying that the main character is troubled but that the audience laughs at him- and you call it "sick."

You say the main character has no perspective of his youth- considering the show is about him gaining perspective on himself, a strange complaint.

And then you just say the music sucks, the lyrics are a mess, and that it's disgraceful it won a Pulitzer.

And then you say, "and it doesn't make me a racist," apparently a preemptive defense against a criticism nobody yet made.

And then you call it vulgar a second time.

I insinuated nothing that wasn't in your post.

There is context over the criticism of Oleksinksi in the NYPost that you seem to fail to grasp. There are a number of posters in this thread who did not like the show and were not accused of being racist. Not liking this show is not racist. Not everyone will like it, that's fine. Not everything will be for all people. But you seem particularly personally offended by the show and seem to think its acclaim is only due to people being "woke"- which is basically saying the show is low on merits on its own and is only getting praise because of the identity of who created it and who it's about.

(Michael R. Jackson's lyrics in the opening song about what kind of criticism Usher thinks his show will receive are continually proven prescient)

Updated On: 4/30/22 at 03:18 PM

[Huss417]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 3:21pm

Kad said: "Well, all you've managed to offer is that you think the show is woke and vulgar and sick and awful but that you're not racist."

Makes me want to see the show even more. Can't Wait. :)

[YvanEhtNioj]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 4:40pm

ThisGuyLovesTheatre said: ""Well, all you've managed to offer is that you think the show is woke and vulgar and sick and awful but that you're not racist."

I'm sorry but that is not true. I gave specific details about why I thought it didn't work, I don't appreciate the use of your word "but", The guy at The Post didn't like it much, and he was attacked here as being a racist. So anyone that doesn't like it is apparently a racist. I didn't like the revival of Flower Drum Song either. It doesn't mean I am racist against Asians. This is why I called the reviews so "WOKE", Stop insinuating things, like racism"

You should’ve just sat there and ate your food. 

[ThisGuyLovesTheatre]

Posted: 4/30/22 at 6:17pm

Since you seem to be twisting everything I say let me correct one thing... I find the character of Usher to have severe depression, I said it is "sick' that the audience is laughing at the character. They aren't laughing with him.

"Laughing at his awful, destructive life choices. I found it sick."   This is what I said. 

"But you seem particularly personally offended by the show and seem to think its acclaim is only due to people being "woke"- which is basically saying the show is low on merits on its own and is only getting praise because of the identity of who created it and who it's about.".... yes, I agree with this in part. all but I don't care about the identity of who created it... but the rest of it is correct. On it's merits it's a terrible show. I read many of the reviews and I really didn't see many people praising the score, Can you find me some comments about the score? Since it's a musical that would be an important element. It was very repetitive and juvenile. But you can enjoy it as much as you like. Again,,, I'm not looking for an argument, I am just telling you what I thought of it,. 

[BJR]

Posted: 5/1/22 at 8:34am

Kad said: "How is it "woke"? What do you even mean by "woke"?"

It seems "woke" is used now whenever anything acknowledges racism and white supremacy.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 5/1/22 at 9:28am

BJR said: "Kad said: "How is it "woke"? What do you even mean by "woke"?"

It seems "woke" is used now whenever anything acknowledges racism and white supremacy."

And in some cases people are using it for anything that doesn't center the white experience.

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 5/1/22 at 8:37pm

Saw the matinee for this today and it's definitely a show I'm gonna have to take a moment to sit on.  I was telling my friend that I liked a lot of the content/individual components of the show but the actual execution and structure of it was a little more difficult for me to appreciate.  Our tickets were from TDF, center orchestra row N and while there were moments that the sound was fuzzy, I don't think it was necessarily worse than other things I've seen (Caroline or Change from the mezzanine just sounded like everything was actually vaguely underwater, and Mean Girls is still the worst sound design I've experienced).  The score itself is dense though, so I'll probably have to take a moment to listen through it before I can fully form an opinion.

Jaquel Spivey really is doing fantastic work on that stage--his voice seemed a little squeaky? in Intermission song but after that it was pretty smooth sailing, and so much of his songs are in a higher register.  The Thoughts are also all quite good and it once again begs for an ensemble award, especially with the number of character changes they do.  The production value is there, and they make great use of the space.  I was quite impressed by how dynamic the set was, especially since I didn't think much of it at first.  It seems like a show that will be heavily nominated, but I'm a bit on the fence about how many of the actual awards it'll pick up.  

The show itself seems a bit scattered in how it picks up and puts down different ideas seemingly at random (though I'm sure there was a purpose to the order), and I think the argument could be made that it's also indicative of Usher's own mental state as well.  Part of that also brings up the question of how much should a piece be tailored to an audience's experience, not in terms of content, but more in the sense that the scattered thoughts and diversions may be more accurate to someone's actual thought process, but isn't necessarily something that's easy to follow or as enjoyable for the audience.  And that's not to say there's no progression at all in the show, because there is, but it seems like a longer show than it is because there are so many different jumps that later circle back to the original topic (it's all a strange loop etc).

In a way it reminds me of Company, but also a bit of Skin of Our Teeth (which is top of mind for me since I saw a few days ago), though it feels more raw than both of them, which I'd say for the more frequent theatergoers is probably more exciting to experience.  There were at least 4 times when I thought the show was about to end and it didn't (though I think they do reference that a bit), and I think a for lot of this show you either have to already know it fairly well or just let it play out in front of you and be willing to go along for the ride without trying to pick up and piece together the threads yourself. 

Side note, where is the sound booth located in the Lyceum?  Usually it's at the back of the orchestra so I assumed I'd be sitting fairly close to it and I generally assume next to the sound booth is one of the best places to sit for sound balance, but I don't think I saw it there.

[OffOnBwayHi]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 12:51am

The 60-year-old guy who doesn't like the show is allowed to not like it, y'all. lol

BUT, I would offer to anyone who sees the show and hates it to reconsider the vulgar language, wokeness, self-sabotaging protagonist, etc. and ask if this is someone's lived-experience that maybe they, as the viewer, aren't familiar with.

For me, I'm not fat, but I am gay and Black, and the show thrills me because who would've thought I would see so many specific things about my experience so fearlessly performed on a Broadway stage in such a raw way?! And if you aren't any of those things, there are so many ways in — being othered, having a dream and feeling pushback in so many ways, not feeling great about your body, desiring love and not being able to have it reciprocated... I mean, Usher is all of us, constantly fighting with our inner demons and thoughts, but also growing tremendously by facing them head on, or learning when to ignore them.

In addition, we all should know by now that what is elevated with accolades in the theater industry is often not everyone's cup of tea, but it's difficult to say that the work does not challenge you. The theater industry is GREAT at choosing challenging work that moves the art forward.

Plays or musical, the throughline of all the drama pulitzer winners is honesty. All those works are saying something true. So with that said, I think the poster was challenged. Being challenged often leads to a defense of some sort. But instead, I would offer to just sit with the work and let it take you to a place you never explored and see how it has possibly changed you...

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 1:02am

For some reason this show is so divisive. Are we only allowed to like shows that we have the same experiences as? I'm not saying that as a bad thing. And I think it's great you get to see yourself represented and how that makes you feel. That's amazing. 

But that said, I'm a white gay man who adores August Wilson. And his shows have basically nothing to do with my experience. Personally, I don't think disliking something is because you didn't experience it / can't relate. Maybe it just didn't work fro you personally and that's okay. 

But I do find the "being too woke" thing a bit troubling. The definition of woke is "alert to injustices in society, especially racism." I don't think being too much on that issue is ever going to be a bad thing? 

[binau]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:45am

To me if this show was was 'woke', or at least the negative connotations I associate with the word, it would be about a Tyler Perry-loving religious straight person who is navigating the struggles of their life. The concept of a fat, black queer man would not even exist in a 'woke' story - we would not be able to see criticism of religion or certain cultures and just pander to the patriarchy. 'AIDS is god's punishment' would be a scene that we are meant to witness and respect sincerely and not find chilling. I personally don't consider the show woke at all because it's too honest - it's willing to go places that woke people would never dare for fear that they might 'offend' someone.  

[Lot666]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 10:02am

BJR said: "Kad said: "How is it "woke"? What do you even mean by "woke"?"

It seems "woke" is used now whenever anything acknowledges racism and white supremacy."

And homophobia/transphobia, if you're the governor of Florida.

[Georgeanddot2]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 10:47am

Calling something "woke" is 100% a dog whistle.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 12:37pm

Great article in NY Mag.

Michael R. Jackson Doesn’t Really Care How You React to His Musical

[uncageg]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 2:21pm

The sound board is in the mezzanine.

[zraffio]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:13pm

Might be a weird question but a friend runs a high school-age theatre program and they're trying to decide which show to bring their students to this year. They're all fine with more mature content (and the parents want them to see "real theatre" as opposed to Disney/film adaptations), but wondering if anyone can DM and let me know specifically how much physical sexual content and drug use is in the show? Want to make sure I have a full scope before deciding, just in case.

Thanks!

[lovett1979]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:35pm

This is not a show for high school students. Language is rough (much use of the N-word) and there is a very explicit scene of anal sex. I think it's a fantastic show, but I don't think it's appropriate for anyone under 25. Not because they'll be "offended" or "exposed to adult things" but because they do not have the knowledge and maturity to understand and properly contextualize the show.

Come From Away, Dear Evan Hansen, or Hamilton would be much better choices for non-kiddie shows that are appropriate for teenagers.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 5/2/22 at 3:39pm

Jesus.