BREAKING: Mandy Patinkin Withdraws from THE GREAT COMET- Page 19

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 4:30pm

Dave28282 said: "Babe_Williams said: "And also, discussions involving race on this board are always such a disaster. Its so disappointing. Privilege abounds."

You mean black privilege where someone is exempted/immune for being fired/replaced?

I agree, this kind of privilege prevents equality.

The decision had not to do with race, the people who made that up are a disaster to society.

 

 

"

Thank you for proving my point entirely. Seems like you always pop into threads just to definitively comment that whatever the topic is has nothing to do with race, as if you are the expert and decider. Strange.

[LxGstv]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 4:37pm

Lot666 said: "Jaredinsc said: "This was purely a last ditch effort to keep the show going. It wasnt about race. This is one of the most diverse shows thats been on broadway."

I have to admit that all this talk of racism has me struggling to figure out what I'm missing in this story. If I correctly understand the sequence of events, ticket sales plummeted when Mr. Groban left and his replacement was simply not generating sufficient interest to keep the show afloat (the implication that The Great Comet has been merely a star vehicle all along is another matter, but one that also shocks me). I don't see how it was was "racist" to temporarily replace Oak with a bigger name who would arguably be more capable of filling the theatre (while also continuing to pay Oak, no less). Does anyone really believe they wanted Mr. Patinkin because he's white? He was cast because they thought he'd create interest in the show like Mr. Groban did.

Remember how Patti LuPone was replaced by Glenn Close at the last minute when Sunset Boulevard came to Broadway? Obviously there was no potential for a "racism" controversy there, but it nonetheless created a sh*t-storm when the producers concluded that Ms. Close was more likely to generate revenue.

 

"

 

If I'm not mistaken, what turned this into a race thing was twitter. Oak's friends started tweeting that he got pushed aside for a white actor, among many other things. It started to get more and more attention, as his friends were telling people to complain to the Great Comet's twitter account. There was a lengthy discussion on this or another thread on wether or not Oak was behind it or not. It got worse when the producers said Oak agreed to make room for Mandy to step in. Some people saw racist undertones on the message, hence the #makeroomforoak.

If you read between the lines, one could say Oak encouraged the backlash, even without tweeting anything negative. Not saying anything is a statement on itself. But then again, reading between the lines is part of what caused this mess.

Dave Malloy then sent out a series of tweets saying the show was in financial problems and they had done the same thing to Brittain Ashford not long ago, which until then no one really knew how bad it was. He also apologized for having missed that it could have been viewed as racist to replace Oak with Mandy.

I think that pretty much sums it up?

[froote]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 4:52pm

For someone who 'doesn't see race', Dave sure has more to say about it than anyone else on the planet.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 5:22pm

It's definitely the biggest "scandal" that's happened since I've been following the scene (aka the last ten years or so). What even comes remotely close?

[CorkySt.Clair]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 5:24pm

^ the only thing I could think of would be Spider-Man....maybe??

[comets]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 5:27pm

Mr. Nowack said: "It's definitely the biggest "scandal" that's happened since I've been following the scene (aka the last ten years or so). What even comes remotely close?

 

"

 

The Rebecca scandal? 

 

[LxGstv]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 5:28pm

Mr. Nowack said: "It's definitely the biggest "scandal" that's happened since I've been following the scene (aka the last ten years or so). What even comes remotely close?

 

"

That time when The Great Comet producers were dicks to Ars Nova?! Lol

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 5:38pm

Lot666 said: "Does anyone really believe they wanted Mr. Patinkin because he's white? "

Of course it's shocking and completely world alienated, but I think some people do.

Some people were raised to pull the race card in every situation, thinking that is all there is to their identity, without learning the ability to see things in perspective or any situation in a bigger picture.

It's a shame because it's really essential for developing a human personality that's evolved and reasonable.

It's also rude, because of the double agenda (vice versa would be no problem) and the constant focus on race difference.

 

Babe_Williams said: "Seems like you always pop into threads just to definitively comment that whatever the topic is has nothing to do with race, as if you are the expert and decider. "

You don't have to be an expert to determine the cause of this action. And it was not race.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 5:42pm

Mr. Nowack said: "It's definitely the biggest "scandal" that's happened since I've been following the scene (aka the last ten years or so). What even comes remotely close?"

"I was asked to step away for a few weeks because the show was struggling financially so they needed a big name, like we have seen 1000 times before in Broadway shows, and so I did, even though I'm disappointed".

Is hardly a scandal......

 

[haterobics]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 6:10pm

Dave28282 said: "You don't have to be an expert to determine the cause of this action. And it was not race."

Dave can post this to basically everything that happens. Eventually we will all see that nothing is about race. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 6:27pm

Ok, so they hired him and then replaced him because they found out he was black. Fine.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 4:47pm

This had absolutely nothing to do with the race of an actor. It had everything to do with securing the longevity of the show by hiring an actor with box office clout to replace one that did not. That the actor who was being replaced happened to be Black had nothing to do with it, and as a man of color I am sick and tired of the race card being used in this kind of situation. This would have happened if the actor in question being replaced was white and had no box office clout. 

I don't agree with the way the producers handled the situation as it was an offense to Oak - and to some degree Patinkin for unnecessarily putting him in a very awkward situation with a fellow thespian, but to cry the race card in this particular scenario is bullish!t of the highest order.

It does no one any favors and diminishes other causes that are really infringing on the rights of people of color. 

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment of this situation that appeared today by the National Review:

RACE HYSTERIA ERUPTS OVER A COMMONSENSE ACTING DECISION

 

[carnzee]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 5:24pm

Oh my God, the National Review weighed in on this?

[hmph]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 6:03pm

The National Review gets some stuff right in that article, but Jesus Christ, its slant is so obvious. GTFO with that nonsense.

[carnzee]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 6:28pm

hmph said: "The National Review gets some stuff right in that article, but Jesus Christ, its slant is so obvious. GTFO with that nonsense.

 

"

Exactly. The sneering contempt for color-blind casting is so gross and beside the point.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 6:38pm

Can we stop using the term "colorblind casting?" There's no such thing and it seems to be a term only white people use anyway. "Color CONSCIOUS" is way more accurate and reflects the desire to be inclusive of PoC's rather asking audiences to pretend that they don't "see" race.

[binau]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 6:44pm

When Mandy was first announced we had to deal with the racial outcry. Then when he quit it felt like there was a backlash against the racial outcry. Now it feels like we're coming full circle into a racial outcry again. 

Yes it has something to do with race because people have made it something to do with race. But the point is it shouldn't have anything to do with race. Stop making it anything to do with race. People need to more finely tune their RACISM and HATE and DISCRIMINATION detector these days because it is far too sensitive - and I think the long-term effect of this is undermining those that suffer real issues of racism or discrimination. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 6:54pm

CarlosAlberto said: "

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment of this situation that appeared today by the National Review:

RACE HYSTERIA ERUPTS OVER A COMMONSENSE ACTING DECISION

"

Fantastic article. Although a bit too mild.

The harm done by this lunacy could be a bit more explained. Not only will people take the complaints not seriously anymore, they will be fed up with them and take actions to make these false claims right.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 6:58pm

qolbinau said: "Yes it has something to do with race because people have made it something to do with race."

Everything in life will always be misunderstood by someone somewhere. People tend to think out of their own  insecurities, issues and tunnel vision. The thing is, that should not be confused with what really happened.

We should not give the lunatics in this case too much attention, because what they say has nothing to do with the actual situation. The actual situation is a routine fact of Broadway life. What is really troubling is that Patinkin and the producers groveled, like some hypnotized lemmings, detached from reality. 

Because what they actually say now is that black people are above routine facts and so black people are not the same as white people as they clearly should be treated differently. 

Updated On: 8/2/17 at 06:58 PM

[bear88]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 7:08pm

I have never heard the term, 'color-conscious casting' before, but it certainly applies in some situations. Hamilton, obviously, is the most prominent example of such a show. Most of the lead parts are designated for POCs, with the exception - usually - of King George. 

But I have seen many shows that are colorblind even if there is a desire for a diverse cast. To me, such shows offer opportunities for POCs to play traditionally white roles if they suit the part. That seems like a good thing. I don't know how next year's Carousel revival will fare commercially or artistically, but I know that Joshua Henry has the acting and singing chops for the part.

Great Comet is more of a colorblind show, although it prides itself on diversity. I don't think Natasha is necessarily meant to be played by a POC, even though both Natashas have been, on and off Broadway. But it's Broadway, and the show is not a big enough draw to survive without star power, hence the current mess in which there are no winners.

Still, I like colorblind casting, and I hope the unique circumstances of Great Comet's problems won't discourage it in the future. I fear it might, not at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival but on Broadway.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 7:15pm

Color-blind casting is great. We need it. More of it. Let's just stop calling it that. To me, it suggests erasure of a person's race/ethnicity, rather than an embracement of it.

"Color-conscious casting" is the term most professionals in the industry use nowadays.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 7:19pm

But anyway, he was cast. And it's not like they replaced him because they found out he was black.

[carnzee]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 7:50pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "Color-blind casting is great. We need it. More of it. Let's just stop calling it that. To me, it suggests erasure of a person's race/ethnicity, rather than an embracement of it.

"Color-conscious casting" is the term most professionals in the industry use nowadays.

 

"

I realize these terms mean different things to different people. My understanding is that the two terms aren't interchangeable, and in fact mean two different things.

"Color- blind" meaning the actor of color isn't playing a person of color. I would think Joshua Henry as Billy in Carousel fits into this category, as well as Denee in Comet.

"Color-conscious" meaning an actor of color is playing a role traditionally considered "white" as a person of color. The recent Streetcar revival with Blair Underwood falls in this category, if I'm not mistaken.

But the terms seem to mean different things to different people.

[JIMG3]

Posted: 8/2/17 at 9:55pm

Or is it simply sneering contempt, towards a conservative news source? 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 8/3/17 at 12:47am

carnzee said: "The Distinctive Baritone said: "Color-blind casting is great. We need it. More of it. Let's just stop calling it that. To me, it suggests erasure of a person's race/ethnicity, rather than an embracement of it.

"Color-conscious casting" is the term most professionals in the industry use nowadays.

 

"

I realize these terms mean different things to different people. My understanding is that the two terms aren't interchangeable, and in fact mean two different things.

"Color- blind" meaning the actor of color isn't playing a person of color. I would think Joshua Henry as Billy in Carousel fits into this category, as well as Denee in Comet.

"Color-conscious" meaning an actor of color is playing a role traditionally considered "white" as a person of color. The recent Streetcar revival with Blair Underwood falls in this category, if I'm not mistaken.

But the terms seem to mean different things to different people.

 

Yes, to me the terms seem slightly different. Colorblind seems to imply more that the best person was chosen for the job and also that the role isn't written in a way that would prohibit different races or ethnicities from playing the part. Color-conscious suggests that someone was specifically casting a show to make sure it would be diverse and/or casting a part with a non-white actor to investigate the implications of that nontraditional casting in the case of a revival. So with those definitions, I think right now casting directors should be practicing color-conscious casting until we can get to a point where truly colorblind casting is the norm.