BREAKING: Mandy Patinkin Withdraws from THE GREAT COMET- Page 18

[JBC3]

Posted: 7/30/17 at 8:53pm

Dave28282 said: "Race is NOT relevant in this case."

 

While race does not seem to have been a factor for why the decision to replace him was made, race certainly has been relevant to how some perceive the way the entire situation was handled.  None of us get to make the relevance determination for others.

 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/30/17 at 9:06pm

JBC3 said: "Dave28282 said: "Race is NOT relevant in this case."

 

While race does not seem to have been a factor for why the decision to replace him was made, race certainly has been relevant to how some perceive the way the entire situation was handled.  None of us get to make the relevance determination for others."

 

True, because some people perceive everything through race first. 

That is an issue in general, but still has nothing to do with this case.

 

[schubox]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 12:41am

So apparently Brittain posted then deleted this to her twitter in reaction to all this

 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 12:44am

^It's not showing up for me.  What does it say?

[froote]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 12:50am

https://twitter.com/rltahanson/status/891804693080543233

[10086Sundays]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 12:55am

In case that gets deleted:  

This is my family. I would do anything for them. After five years, two workshops, three off Broadway stints, an out of town tryout, and our arrival on Broadway I was asked to step away from the show. And I did. Because I was told it was the only way to save the show during some bleak months and lagging ticket sales. After the initial sting of feeling disposable, I’m still reconciling with the business end of the situation: this can be a difficult and ****ty business. We want to be a part of something that we feel is important, art that touches people’s lives and changes them. A lens with which we can make sense out of the ridiculous, tedious and occasionally deeply unfair world that we must live in. Something that I feel this show has done, and I hope, continues to do.

[schubox]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 1:07am

Yeah thanks guys, I was having an issue getting a good link to it. This whole thing is such a disaster 

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 1:19am

Brittain's updated caption after that lengthier one:

"This is my family. I would do anything for them. Looking forward to being back in New York and getting the chance to see the magic from the audience for myself. Returning to Moscow proper August 15."

So...looks like no August 13 closing? Producers need to announce something ASAP.

[10086Sundays]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 1:22am

BroadwayConcierge said: "Brittain's updated caption after that lengthier one:

"This is my family. I would do anything for them. Looking forward to being back in New York and getting the chance to see the magic from the audience for myself. Returning to Moscow proper August 15."

So...looks like no August 13 closing? Producers need to announce something ASAP."

That tweet's being discussed here.  No one knows what's going on, but yeah, they do need to announce something soon.  Though I do understand them wanting to wait a couple days to let the craziness fade.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 7:55am

That lady's original tweet was wonderful and is all what this case is about. Everything else was not necessary.

[JBC3]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 8:26am

I have been a director of diversity and inclusion on both the college campus and in Fortune 100 companies for 20+ years.

Generally, the only people with the privilege of NOT looking at a situation through race when underrepresented populations are involved are those in the dominant majority.

That group in most cases is still white people, many of whom fail to understand what it means to be of their race if you ask the about being white.

And that is why for some this will always look like a situation in which a black man who prepared long and hard for a limited run in a part and was touted by producers was then removed because a white male happened to see the show and said, "hey I would like to do that." The producers jumped at the chance to give it to him despite his being age inappropriate, known to be difficult to work with, available for a very limited time, and likely to have done little of the preparation of the original actor.

This does not mean those not in the majority are automatically right or that they get a pass when other issues are involved. Nor does it mean that their perspectives can be dismissed by those who do not live their situation on a daily basis.

[schubox]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 9:02am

JBC3 said: "I have been a director of diversity and inclusion on both the college campus and in Fortune 100 companies for 20+ years.

Generally, the only people with the privilege of NOT looking at a situation through race when underrepresented populations are involved are those in the dominant majority.

That group in most cases is still white people, many of whom fail to understand what it means to be of their race if you ask the about being white.

And that is why for some this will always look like a situation in which a black man who prepared long and hard for a limited run in a part and was touted by producers was then removed because a white male happened to see the show and said, "hey I would like to do that." The producers jumped at the chance to give it to him despite his being age inappropriate, known to be difficult to work with, available for a very limited time, and likely to have done little of the preparation of the original actor.

This does not mean those not in the majority are automatically right or that they get a pass when other issues are involved. Nor does it mean that their perspectives can be dismissed by those who do not live their situation on a daily basis.


"

Except it seems like the more likely scenario is Mandy Patinkin is friends with Rachel Chavkin. He saw and liked the show. They asked him to step in because they desperately needed to stay afloat and he is a big enough name to do just that. 

 

[Mossee]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 9:05am

JBC3 said: "And that is why for some this will always look like a situation in which a black man who prepared long and hard for a limited run in a part and was touted by producers was then removed because a white male happened to see the show and said, "hey I would like to do that." "

I think this really gets to the crux of the issue. They were really hurt by how they initially tried to spin it... trying, on their part, not to come out and say "our sales are terrible, we have to do something or we're gonna close". No doubt there would have been a backlash no matter how they positioned it, but this was definite tone-deafness on their part. 

Updated On: 7/31/17 at 09:05 AM

[CorkySt.Clair]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 9:07am

Honestly, how bad would it have been if they said right off the bat that they had money problems? I mean, it isn't great, but that sounds a heck of a lot better than their framing of it in the beginning.

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 9:39am

This whole situation is so messy. The bottom line that we can all agree (it seems) is that there isn't an actor around who could save this show unless the actor was willing to do a longer run.

 

And also, discussions involving race on this board are always such a disaster. Its so disappointing. Privilege abounds.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 9:51am

Color counting is wrong- on both sides and on any side. Enough already. This constant cry of victimization by the black community- one that is not heard by the gay, Jewish, transgender or really any other minority with long histories of oppression- has actually hurt the black community at this point- the backlash is partly responsible for the rise of Donald Trump and those of his ilk. Did anyone cry out when Hamilton diversified? But the casting of Nina Simone's story was rife with racial undertones- I abhor any type of discrimination- but really- the constant cries of victimization- especially when they are not egregious-  and racism is not helping to promote a colorblind society.

 

 

Updated On: 7/31/17 at 09:51 AM

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 11:33am

BWAY Baby2 said: "Color counting is wrong- on both sides and on any side. Enough already. This constant cry of victimization by the black community- one that is not heard by the gay, Jewish, transgender or really any other minority with long histories of oppression- has actually hurt the black community at this point- the backlash is partly responsible for the rise of Donald Trump and those of his ilk. Did anyone cry out when Hamilton diversified? But the casting of Nina Simone's story was rife with racial undertones- I abhor any type of discrimination- but really- the constant cries of victimization- especially when they are not egregious-  and racism is not helping to promote a colorblind society.

 

 

 

"

Um..."they are not egregious"? 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 12:10pm

JBC3 said: "And that is why for some this will always look like a situation in which a black man who prepared long and hard for a limited run in a part and was touted by producers was then removed because a white male happened to see the show and said, "hey I would like to do that." 
 

This attitude prevents equality.

This is about a human being replaced by another human who is more famous. Happens as long as Broadway exists, to countless actors who prepared long and hard.

Hopefully, someday, these people will see human instead of race.

 

Updated On: 7/31/17 at 12:10 PM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 12:26pm

Babe_Williams said: "And also, discussions involving race on this board are always such a disaster. Its so disappointing. Privilege abounds."

You mean black privilege where someone is exempted/immune for being fired/replaced?

I agree, this kind of privilege prevents equality.

The decision had not to do with race, the people who made that up are a disaster to society.

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 12:29pm

On that last, it's putting the cart before the horse. If you want folks to see humans, you create equality. 

On the rest, there was a way this could have been done that would have prompted only nominal posts. But you cannot fire a major role on Broadway and expect it to go down as if you were canning an underproducing analyst at a hedge fund. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 1:43pm

EthelMae said: "what I don't get is why this show needs a "name" to run? Why did the Producers cast Groban to begin with?"

I've been wondering the same thing. This whole affair is truly shocking to me, not because of the racism controversy, but because it suggests that the show is relatively unappealing without a celebrity name on the marquee.

There have been innumerable posts and threads on this board for many months now regarding the excellence of The Great Comet, and it was nominated for 12 Tony awards (more than any other show this season), including Best New Musical. How is it that it cannot stand on its own merit without a name like Mr. Groban's above the title?

Updated On: 7/31/17 at 01:43 PM

[Lot666]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 2:01pm

Jaredinsc said: "This was purely a last ditch effort to keep the show going. It wasnt about race. This is one of the most diverse shows thats been on broadway."

I have to admit that all this talk of racism has me struggling to figure out what I'm missing in this story. If I correctly understand the sequence of events, ticket sales plummeted when Mr. Groban left and his replacement was simply not generating sufficient interest to keep the show afloat (the implication that The Great Comet has been merely a star vehicle all along is another matter, but one that also shocks me). I don't see how it was was "racist" to temporarily replace Oak with a bigger name who would arguably be more capable of filling the theatre (while also continuing to pay Oak, no less). Does anyone really believe they wanted Mr. Patinkin because he's white? He was cast because they thought he'd create interest in the show like Mr. Groban did.

Remember how Patti LuPone was replaced by Glenn Close at the last minute when Sunset Boulevard came to Broadway? Obviously there was no potential for a "racism" controversy there, but it nonetheless created a sh*t-storm when the producers concluded that Ms. Close was more likely to generate revenue.

[bear88]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 2:13pm

The producers made a calculation that they needed an established star with his own following to open what is certainly an unusual Broadway show. They sold Groban as much as the show, and that left them in a bad position when Great Comet became more of a cult hit (with a star attached) instead of the Best Musical-winning phenomenon they undoubtedly hoped it would become.

Bringing in Oak always struck me as a peculiar decision, not because he couldn't play the role but because there wasn't much reason to think he would draw crowds who wouldn't see the show anyway. And they realized it, too late. So then the desperation  moves began, putting Brittain Ashford on a long vacation so they could do some stunt casting. And then the Oak/Mandy fiasco, which wouldn't have been as necessary if a bankable star was waiting in September.

But as much as I loved the show, I think it's time to accept that it just doesn't have enough mainstream Broadway appeal, not without the Best Musical award it didn't get, really favorable word of mouth, or the stunt casting that will only prop up the musical for a few months anyway.

I'm really glad I saw it during my April visit. It was a wonderful experience, and the creators, cast, and even the producers have my thanks. But there aren't enough people like me.

Updated On: 7/31/17 at 02:13 PM

[Lot666]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 2:29pm

Huss417 said: "BroadwayConcierge said: "This is the biggest mess I've ever seen in my life. Oh my God."

Pick up a newspaper. The...President I think has this beat."

You beat me to it; I was going to suggest that BroadwayConcierge have a look at The White House.

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 7/31/17 at 2:35pm

Lot666 said: "Huss417 said: "BroadwayConcierge said: "This is the biggest mess I've ever seen in my life. Oh my God."

Pick up a newspaper. The...President I think has this beat."

You beat me to it; I was going to suggest that BroadwayConcierge have a look at The White House.

 

"

I had read that as the biggest mess BroadwayConcierge has seen Broadway wise but you would have to clarify with him.