Best Musicals NOT recouping?

[once a month]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 10:27am

News of The Band's Visit recouping made me wonder, which best musical winners have failed to recoup on Broadway? 

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 10:33am

I'm pretty certain the last Best Musical winner that failed to recoup during its Broadway run was Thoroughly Modern Millie (2002). Pretty impressive, though, that the award has guaranteed financial success for the last 16 years.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 10:35am

Passion. It’s also the shortest running best musical.

[carolinaguy]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 11:28am

The Broadway production of Sunset Blvd. did not recoup. I don't know if the show overall ever did or not, with tours and licensing. According to the Times, the Broadway production ended up paying investors back about 85% of the capitalization.

Updated On: 9/10/18 at 11:28 AM

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 11:41am

Titanic, Passion, and Sunset Blvd in the 1990s.

The original production of Sweeney didn't, and I think Company fell short of recouping on Broadway but made up for it with touring productions.

[once a month]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 11:48am

Thanks for posting! I'm surprised! I've seen all mentioned, and enjoyed all of them but one. Let's hope they ALL recoup...

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 12:09pm

Hallelujah, Baby!

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 12:14pm

BroadwayConcierge said: "I'm pretty certain the last Best Musical winner that failed to recoup during its Broadway run wasThoroughly Modern Millie(2002). Pretty impressive, though, that the award has guaranteed financial success for the last 16 years."

Wow that is impressive! I'm curious if an external factor like the recession post 9/11 is one of the reasons Millie didn't recoup.

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 1:29pm

Wick3 said: "Wow that is impressive! I'm curious if an external factor like the recession post 9/11 is one of the reasons Millie didn't recoup."

Could have been a factor. But, critics also hated MILLIE, so its win was kind of an upset against the critically-lauded favorite, Urinetown. Both Urinetown and Mamma Mia out-ran Millie. The 2002 season was also bookended by mega-hit The Producers and then a July '02 opening of Hairspray (followed 2 months later by Billy Joel's Movin' Out).

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 1:56pm

Did Hamilton recoup lol?

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 2:08pm

I think the recession would be a scapegoat when you look at what else succeeded and failed. Not great shows always love to find something other than themselves to blame.

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 2:13pm

Very good points. I was studying abroad back in 2002 and didn't get to see any of those shows. I forget Urinetown and Mamma Mia were both in the same season and I see both shows recouped regardless of external factors like the recession back then.

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 2:34pm

It's a crazy business, isn't it, when we celebrate a show that doesn't lose money? And by that I mean, we celebrate recoupment when an investor invests a dollar and gets the entire dollar back. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 2:48pm

Don't we celebrate the success of a film? Or any business that succeeds?   Why shouldn't that be celebrated.  (Unless I miss your meaning.)

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 3:03pm

RaisedOnMusicals said: "It's a crazy business, isn't it, when we celebrate a show that doesn't lose money? And by that I mean, we celebrate recoupment when an investor invests a dollar and gets the entire dollar back."

When we celebrate recoupment what we are actually celebrating is the commencement of profit. Unless a show recoups post-closing (not the situation here) and does so to the penny (a far fetched scenario), there will be a profit. And in the case of a show that is running, it will not be insubstantial because bonds, deposits, holdbacks, and perhaps reserves and other sums will be added to that profit eventually. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 3:09pm

It's a crazy business, isn't it, when we celebrate a show that doesn't lose money?

Hence the term "business".  With the exception of the very few not-for-profit productions, Broadway is a commercial enterprise, first and foremost.  Sometimes it coincides with artistic merit and achievement.  Sometimes not.  

[green waver]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 3:14pm

I've always read the original production of COMPANY did turn a small profit. Anyone out there know this for a fact?

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 3:43pm

dramamama611 said: "Don't we celebrate the success of a film? Or any business that succeeds? Why shouldn't that be celebrated. (Unless I miss your meaning.)"

Yeah, my point was a bit sarcastic, meaning in most other investments, no one jumps for joy at the the news that they won't lose money. But as haterrobics correctly notes, recoupment is the starting point of profitability, which is always a good thing. I wasn't mocking recoupment, and of course, knowing what a small percentage of shows do actually recoup it is cause to celebrate. But if you think of it as buying a stock for $1000, holding it for a year and then selling it for $1000, you wouldn't celebrate. But the difference, of course, is that once you recoup you no longer have money at risk. You could end up with a 10% ROI or, with a smash hit, many multiples of your original investment. 

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 4:48pm

RaisedOnMusicals said: "Yeah, my point was a bit sarcastic, meaning in most other investments, no one jumps for joy at the the news that they won't losemoney. But as haterrobics correctly notes, recoupment is the starting point of profitability, which is always a good thing. I wasn't mocking recoupment, and of course, knowing what a small percentage of shows do actually recoup it is cause to celebrate. But if you think of it as buying a stock for $1000, holding it for a year and then selling it for $1000, you wouldn't celebrate. But the difference, of course, is that once you recoup you no longer have money at risk. You could end up with a 10% ROI or, with a smash hit, many multiples of your original investment."

I'm sure haterobics doesn't mind being mistaken for me.

I think the better analogy would be investing in an IPO of a company that has never made a penny and then celebrating when it breaks even.

 

[haterobics]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 4:52pm

HogansHero said: "I'm sure haterobics doesn't mind being mistaken for me. "

Totally fine.

[TheSassySam]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 6:02pm

Mister Matt said: "Hallelujah, Baby!"

 

This is the only musical to earn the Tony post-closing too.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 6:18pm

Phantom of London said: "Did Hamilton recoup lol?"

i think it recouped like 2 months in

[sabrelady]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 6:19pm

 



Could have been a factor. But, critics alsohatedMILLIE, so its win was kind of an upset against the critically-lauded favorite, Urinetown. Both Urinetown andMamma Mia out-ran Millie. The 2002 seasonwas also bookended by mega-hitThe Producersand then a July '02 opening ofHairspray(followed 2 months later by Billy Joel'sMovin' Out)."

To be fair there was a lot to hate in MILLIE . From the Chinese  stereotypes to the overreliance on the film  the outright theft of music (The Nuttycracker Suite) Sutton was the only item of real value in the show. I left early.

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 6:23pm

HogansHero said: "RaisedOnMusicals said: "Yeah, my point was a bit sarcastic, meaning in most other investments, no one jumps for joy at the the news that they won't losemoney. But as haterrobics correctly notes, recoupment is the starting point of profitability, which is always a good thing. I wasn't mocking recoupment, and of course, knowing what a small percentage of shows do actually recoup it is cause to celebrate. But if you think of it as buying a stock for $1000, holding it for a year and then selling it for $1000, you wouldn't celebrate. But the difference, of course, is that once you recoup you no longer have money at risk. You could end up with a 10% ROI or, with a smash hit, many multiples of your original investment."

I'm sure haterobics doesn't mind being mistaken for me.

I think the better analogy would be investing in an IPO of a company that has never made a penny and then celebrating when it breaks even.
"

My brain was saying HogansHero and my index finger pecked out haterobics. 

[AngusN]

Posted: 9/10/18 at 6:27pm

Millie might not be the best musical ever written, but it’s still a heck of a lot better than Mamma Mia.