Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 8/13/17- Page 2

[a-mad]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 4:21pm

ntrackbar said: "a-mad said: "Geez, lighten up.  I make one sarcastic comment related to someone who claims WOM is poor on GHD, when I continually hear great things, and all of a sudden I'm an a**hole?  Apologies that my circle of associates don't seem to have any credence since none are investors or producers - they're just regular theater-going fans that love the show.  Yes, I get the numbers... they're not good - and I'm not pretending they are.  But as a fan of the show I can certainly be somewhat hopeful over the recent uptick.  I also realize that WOM and commercial success don't always equate.  There seem to be many shows recently that have good WOM (Bright Star, Bridges of Madison County among others) but failed commercially."

Ironic because I think that is what we are asking - for you to lighten up. Glad you love the show. Glad your friends do. People feeling passionate about a theatrical piece is only a good thing for the industry we all love.

I simply disagreed with your premise that there was strong WOM from the evidence that we have and my personal experience. Didn't call anyone an idiot. Didn't claim anyone's opinion was less valid than another's. Shall we agree to disagree and move on? Neither one of our opinions will make an iota of difference on the day that GHD posts closing whether it is in 2 weeks or 2 years. 

 

"

* hatchet buried*

[BWWMatt]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 4:24pm

ladypresent said: "how war paint, GHD, bronx tale, the play that goes wrong, beautiful (yes beautiful's numbers are bad remember its august...imagine all these dropping 20% in about 4 weeks) haven't announced closing yet is beyond me. Remember the summer is the BOOM time. this is the time you make your money so you can hold on from after labor day to thanksgiving. 
Am i missing something here? 

I think that might be true for all of the shows, except for Beautiful. First, it is the only one that has already recouped, so it has different financial obligations to hit. Secondly, it was in the low to mid 700s last August, and a lot of people (myself included) thought that it would end up closing shop.

However, after Labor Day last year, it rocketed up, passing a million dollars twice in October and twice in December, and averaging $927,870 per week through the end of the year. In fact, after Labor Day, it was only below $900k four times during an eight-show week the rest of the year. 

I have no idea if that will happen again this year, but Beautiful's box office does have a history of grossing the exact opposite of what we think it will as summer turns into fall. 

 

[clb10162]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 4:26pm

springwillcome said: "Well, obviously I'm biased. But everyone I've spoken to had extremely positive WOM, which is why I saw this show in the first place. Most (of course not all) press I've seen is positive. I gone 4 times with friends as well as convinced 5 other friends to go on their own, and every single one loved it with one person only liking it. Obviously that's not a majority or representation of the general population, but I can see where one would feel there's positive WOM and its nothing to be rude over. I've also spoken to the people around me after the show as well and they always had an amazing time. Again not insisting that this is how everyone feels, just adding to the discussion that all the WOM I've encountered is positive as well so it isn't hard to see where they got that idea from :) 

Haven't several people posted on this board that they've seen the show 10-11 times?  I've seen it 7 times so far and each time the comments I've overheard--both at intermission and after the show--have been overwhelmingly positive.  That may not translate into ticket sales but it certainly doesn't fit the "WOM is generally negative" theory.

Just my opinion (obviously), but I think the real problem has been the PR campaign.  The most common remarks I hear from people are variations on "I didn't expect it to be this good," which in my book means the publicity machine isn't doing its job.

 

 

[Willie4316]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 4:50pm

Perhaps I'm missing something, but what is stirring the idea of A Bronx Tale closing? It's grosses haven't been as strong as previous months, but I would hardly say it's slow enough to close up shop compared to GHD and War Paint who seem to till be hanging on despite doing much worse

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 5:18pm

Kinky's drop in grosses is incredible.  Is it possible that the producers might ask Billy Porter (if he can) to return to the show earlier than planned?

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 5:35pm

I don't understand why, week after week, (mostly) the same people remain incapable of placing numbers in context. For instance, even this week, with the whole Murray thing going on, GHD lost enough money to send a kid to Harvard for a year. And Terms of My Surrender netted a handsome profit, even in a week in which it  comped well more than the amount it lost in its gross for press and opening. 

[Margo319]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 5:38pm

Wasn't Kinky Boots doing these numbers before Brandon came on board?  Not sure, but the huge boost in sales was shocking to me.  I think this is where Kinky should be after years of being on Broadway.  

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 5:40pm

I was a big GHD fan but my experience is word of mouth has been mixed at best. I've gotten into passionate discussions with people who hated it. And when I was talking to a stranger at another show about how much I liked GHD, he said "really? You're the first person who has told me you liked it." all anecdotal of course but just my two cents.

[Margo319]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 5:45pm

People who have not seen it seem to really hate the cast recording.  My friends who have been around me while listening have all asked me to turn it off because it was too "cloying" or "annoying".  I don't think you can like the show if you have not seen it.  Simply because of Andy,and his mannerisms, and all the lovely things that are happening on that stage.  Whenever I am there, it's pretty much full, so I hope it continues through the year.  

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 6:06pm

Some posters on here have no idea about context. 

Moore's show did just fine, especially considering opening night comps. It's a one man show. 

KINKY BOOTS had a better week than three musicals that opened THIS season. It's made it's money back, as long as they make their operating costs it really doesn't matter. 

[TheSassySam]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 6:13pm

What are the current shows on Broadway that have announced they're recouped? 

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 6:32pm

TheSassySam said: "What are the current shows on Broadway that have announced they're recouped? "

BEAUTIFUL

CHICAGO

DEAR EVAN HANSEN

HAMILTON

KINKY BOOTS

SCHOOL OF ROCK

THE BOOK OF MORMON

THE LION KING

THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA

WAITRESS

WICKED

Not officially announced (because Disney), but it's assumed ALADDIN has recouped.

[TheThreadMaster]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 6:38pm

ladypresent said: "how war paint, GHD, bronx tale, the play that goes wrong, beautiful (yes beautiful's numbers are bad remember its august...imagine all these dropping 20% in about 4 weeks) haven't announced closing yet is beyond me. Remember the summer is the BOOM time. this is the time you make your money so you can hold on from after labor day to thanksgiving. 
Am i missing something here? 

 

"

Its not even a bias thing, I just dont see a reason why A Bronx Tale (show that is been cruising in the high eighties and low to mid nineties) would be grouped with those shows that get steady seventies. Are we seeing two different gross charts?

[TheSassySam]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 6:45pm

IdinaBellFoster said: "TheSassySam said: "What are the current shows on Broadway that have announced they're recouped? "

BEAUTIFUL

CHICAGO

DEAR EVAN HANSEN

HAMILTON

KINKY BOOTS

SCHOOL OF ROCK

THE BOOK OF MORMON

THE LION KING

THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA

WAITRESS

WICKED

Not officially announced (because Disney), but it's assumed ALADDIN has recouped.

 

"

Thank you for this! I hope we see a CFA announcement soon. 

[MattRVA]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 6:55pm

Margo319 said: "People who have not seen it seem to really hate the cast recording.  My friends who have been around me while listening have all asked me to turn it off because it was too "cloying" or "annoying".  I don't think you can like the show if you have not seen it.  Simply because of Andy,and his mannerisms, and all the lovely things that are happening on that stage.  Whenever I am there, it's pretty much full, so I hope it continues through the year. "

This has been my experience, I'm sorry to say. I was primed to love GHD. I heard Tim Minchin perform "Seeing You" and was impressed. Then came the cast recording, and I was...underwhelmed. I don't live near NYC, so seeing a Broadway show involves significant effort and expense. If I'm going, a show needs to be either near-universally acclaimed (e.g. Hamilton) or a unique experience (e.g. Great Comet). GHD could be a very good show, and I wish it all the best... Maybe if there's a tour...

[Margo319]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 7:02pm

Yeah, I figured other people shared the same views.  Yeah, when I listen to the cast recording I remember all his facial expressions, and everything that happened on the stage.  I've had such fun in that theater seeing the show, and that is why I love the recording so much.  I totally get it though, and if I had the money, I would fly you and 10 of your friends in to see this show, it really is great!!

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 7:20pm

What was the year that  Chicago recouped?   I have no idea.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 7:26pm

How many billions does Dolly have to rake in to recoup?

[ursusfidelis]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 7:52pm

I agree with you.  I got tix thru TDF the day before the show as part of my pre-Tony information gathering and had a great time. Andy Karl's physicality definitely is a huge key to it. I also think a lot of the humor of the Groundhog Day situation doesn't really translate as well on a recording as it does with seeing the accompanying visuals.

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 8:40pm

Is anyone else surprised that Brandon Urie created such a box office boon for Kinky Boots? I mean, unless I'm missing something, he's not exactly a household name that would attract most tourists. Unless Broadway fans were curious enough to check out the show again with him in it, which I doubt. He wasn't even playing the most interesting part (Lola). Nothing against the guy. I'm just surprised. I don't recall his band having any chart success recently and, as I said previously, he wasn't that well known outside his fan base. This isn't Bono or Adam Levine. 

I won't have time on my trip to see any shows I've previously seen as my 5 days in NYC will go fast so only seeing shows that are new to me. But, I have to admit, the announcement of Billy Porter and Stark Sands returning for a limited engagement really piqued my interest.  Now if they could only convince Annaleigh Ashford to return as well. 

I'm certain that box office will explode with the Porter/Sands combo, but will decline after. Which has me wondering why they don't keep doing stunt casting (Wayne Brady, Brandon Urie) if they know that draws an audience? Is it because they have to pay these folks more which cuts into profits even when box office appears very good? Or because there aren't that many celebrities with a big enough fan base who'd both be interested and could also pull off a role in the show? 

Mind you, I'm not advocating for stunt casting. I still remember (I believe it was my first NYC vacation in 2012) how appalled I was to see that Billy Ray Cyrus was performing as Billy Flynn in Chicago. I'm just curious from a business standpoint why Kinky Boots wouldn't continue to employ this tactic since it has shown to be effective. Who knows? Maybe they will. 

[chernjam]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 8:58pm

GreenGables said: "a-mad said: "GreenGables said: "a-mad said:

"

It may not be breaking even yet, but the increase certainly helps.  Appreciate your analysis of WOM since you appear to be the expert on it.  I guess that supersedes all of the great WOM i've heard on it from many people since it's opened...  They're all idiots, apparently.

 

"

lol no need to be an a**hole, a-mad.  I'm an investor and producer, so most of the people i know tend to be more business minded than creatively critical, but I hadn't heard a single positive thing about that show either.  And while I can't claim to know every theatre goer in the city, I think we can safely say the general pulse on that show via WOM is at least moderately negative, if not outright negative.  Random strangers talk to me about DEH, Great Comet, CFA etc., but nearly no one even brings up GHD.  The ones that do didn't love it, although of course there are always exceptions.  

 

"

Geez, lighten up.  I make one sarcastic comment related to someone who claims WOM is poor on GHD, when I continually hear great things, and all of a sudden I'm an a**hole?  Apologies that my circle of associates don't seem to have any credence since none are investors or producers - they're just regular theater-going fans that love the show.  Yes, I get the numbers... they're not good - and I'm not pretending they are.  But as a fan of the show I can certainly be somewhat hopeful over the recent uptick.  I also realize that WOM and commercial success don't always equate.  There seem to be many shows recently that have good WOM (Bright Star, Bridges of Madison County among others) but failed commercially.

 

 

"

Eh, I'd say brightstar was more mixed.  It was certainly a 'fun' show, and has a great score, but the plot had a few too many 'wtf?' moments (a la 'A Man's Gotta Do' to have people really run out of the theater and tell their friends.  But I digress,

We may never be able to really come to a true agreement on WOM or even how to measure WOM, but i've found the social tool on BWW to be fun to play around with.  It isn't everything but:
https://www.broadwayworld.com/industry-social.cfm?orderby=like_count
 

You'll see GHD only has 15k fb likes, which puts it somewhere in the middle of the pack, and 5k 'talking about', behind all the other big shows from this season.  I'm not trying to diminish your friends' opinions on the show, just saying that having individuals like the show doesn't always translate into the true WOM buzz that commercial producers look for, ie people running and telling their friends to buy tickets.  

 

"

GreenGables - that is a pretty cool listing.  Is this a new thing, or do they have these from a few weeks ago.  Just curious how Sunset was doing

[Jarethan]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 9:05pm

chuckydisc said: "Rob said: "KINKY BOOTS (-24.1%)"

Yes that's a drop but worse is the 52+% loss in revenue and POSSIBLY a 90'ish percentage drop in profit if it's a 750k nut.

 Actually, it is just back to business as usual...woth noting that it grossed $150K MORE than it did for the comparable week a year ago and that, even leaving out the Urie weeks, it has grossed significantly more in 2017 the 2016.  Plus, it has to look forward to the return of the original leads, which WILL have a positive impact on future grosses.

 

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 9:11pm

So Hello Dolly hasn't recouped, yet? Think it will before Bette leaves in January? 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 9:11pm

ladypresent said: "how war paint, GHD, bronx tale, the play that goes wrong, beautiful (yes beautiful's numbers are bad remember its august...imagine all these dropping 20% in about 4 weeks) haven't announced closing yet is beyond me. Remember the summer is the BOOM time. this is the time you make your money so you can hold on from after labor day to thanksgiving. 
Am i missing something here? 

I can agree on some, but if you look at Beautiful for 2016, you will see that its business actually went up significantly once the summer was over.  Inference: it didn't attract tourists, but it did attract a lot of local people who don't go to the theatre in the summer, maybe because a lot of them are away or just don't want to be bothered with the heat and the crowds.  Re A Bronx Tale, I assume it has a low nut.

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 8/14/17 at 9:23pm

Miles2Go2 said: "So Hello Dolly hasn't recouped, yet? Think it will before Bette leaves in January? 

 

HD has only had 20 weeks of bonanza business, with two bad weeks when Midler was on vacation.  I wouldn't expect it to have broken even yet, but I'd bet it is getting closer and will have returned a nice, sizable profit (ROI) to its investors when she leaves.  I think Rudin is a lot smarter than the producers of TGC...I'd bet he was going to make sure that he could provide a nice return to his investors by the time she left in the (very unlikely event) that the show couldn't recover from her exit.