Could London critics be giving Chocolate shade due to Matilda Tony snub?- Page 2

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 8:23am

Tying this into my fan scripts thread, darquegk once developed a brilliant fan script based on all of the extant versions of the show based on the 1971 Gene Wilder film. If we can dig it up, that would be great to show the world. Treacly, as all family entertainment is to some extent, but great.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 8:27am

Obviously, it was not clear that you were trying to be funny. At least not to me.

Thanks for clearing that up, though.

[Comden Green]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 9:27am

I guess my tastes are radically different from most. I would never go see a show that merely reproduced the songs from a movie. Never. I listened to the Mary Poppins record thousands of times when I was young. If I want to hear those songs again, in context, I will watch the film. My kids, and I by default, watched the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Lion King, Aladdin, and, yes, Charlie, hundreds of times. I'm not going to pay $100+ to see the same thing on stage. Thoroughly Modern Millie used only two songs from the film and added many wonderful new songs. For me, new Charlie songs are essential.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 9:38am

It's a battle you really can't win. You either write new music and be endlessly compared to the original or stick to the original and be criticised for being unnecessary or overly commercial.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 9:59am

I'm all for an original score for this material, but yes, you will be compared to the previous work, which is a great, five-song score from the 1971 film. Anthony Newley and Leslie Bricusse were master songwriters. Several generations now have grown up on these songs (including me).

Like it or not, that is the challenge.

I can give you an example of an expanded score, taken from a film, that I thought blended with and enhanced the original material ... Thoroughly Modern Millie.

Mary Poppins was horrible. The new songs and revisions didn't work.

Lion King, fine. Not great, but not bad. Same with Beauty and the Beast.

Most of the others have been subpar. The added songs have almost always been lesser quality than the originals.

In this case with Wonka, they threw out everything but Pure Imagination and replaced it with an unmemorable score.

[Princeton Returns]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 10:49am

I strongly disagree. I think Mary Poppins is the perfect example of how old and new CAN merge to create a great show.

TMM for me has a rather forgettable score, aside from the films songs.

Unfortunately if you are going to take on an iconic film and songs then you need to replace them with something equally as strong, and the general feeling is that they havent.

[Princeton Returns]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 10:49am

I strongly disagree. I think Mary Poppins is the perfect example of how old and new CAN merge to create a great show.

TMM for me has a rather forgettable score, aside from the films songs.

Unfortunately if you are going to take on an iconic film and songs then you need to replace them with something equally as strong, and the general feeling is that they havent.

[jaqs]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 11:15am

The lyrics for the introducing the kids songs and the Oompa loompas are very witty, or at least I remember thinking that when I saw it but couldnt repeat anything now. The music is totally instantly forgettable and its a real shame.

[darquegk]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 12:06pm

Bricusse and Newley had written an expanded score for the show, keeping all their songs and adding more. However, having done Bricusse and Newley's "Chocolate Factory," I am willing to wager that even if the new Shaiman songs are bad, they can't be much worse than the new Bricusse and Newley songs were. It's one thing to write five good songs. It's another thing to write twelve more, decades later, and have them be as good and as iconic.

[ohjustjake]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 12:14pm

I had asked this question in a previous thread and never got a response, but I remember reading that they were going to incorporate the preexisting songs into this show? If they're going to include "Pure Imagination", why not include the other 4 songs?

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 1:24pm

The only movie song is Pure Imagination. Don't know why that decision was made.

It's one thing to write five good songs. It's another thing to write twelve more, decades later, and have them be as good and as iconic.

Just ask the Sherman Brothers with Mary Poppins.

[tazber]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 2:37pm

I liked the additional songs Bricusse and Newley wrote for the stage version. I don't know why everyone felt a new songwriting team was needed (nothing against Shaiman and Whittman mind you).

They (Bricusse and Newley) also padded out Doctor Doolittle for a successful touring production. Those new songs were good as well.

[wicked4l]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 3:02pm

This was just published today! I'm definitely interested. The glass elevator scene looks magical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWlNFLYr0IQ&feature=player_embedded

[AvenueQResident]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 3:16pm

Spider-Man comparisons?

This show hasn't delayed it's opening night by six months and apart from cancelling the first two previews, hasn't been suffering technical malfunctions. Add the lack of actor injuries and lawsuits.

Of course a show like this is going to have a lot of hype and a high standard to meet, due to the familiarity of the source material and following on from the success of 'Matilda', but it's incredibly far-fetched to say that it's similar to how Spider-Man fared.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 3:20pm

Great production values in the reel. Hodge looks good, too. But the reviews pretty much said that.

[FireFingers]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 6:30pm

A new score had to written as the Dahl estate won't allow the film version to be performed. It took a long time to convince them to allow Pure Imagination.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 6:55pm

Brantley did not like it: http://theater.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/theater/reviews/charlie-and-the-chocolate-factory-opens-at-drury-lane.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[emo_geek]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 6:57pm

I saw it and REALLY wanted to enjoy it. I LOVE Shaiman and almost everything he does. However, I was only impressed by the sets on this one.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 7:59pm

It seems so... busy.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 6/26/13 at 8:29pm

The production looks stunning, but I agree that it was probably a mistake to drop the existing beloved score.

"A new score had to written as the Dahl estate won't allow the film version to be performed."

But how is the show licensed through MTI, then?

[PlayItAgain]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 12:47am

Trust me the Dahl estate will allow the other 4 songs added in, but WB is going to pay alot to make it happen, and thats the only way this will survive on broadway.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 7:11am

It does kinda make sense about the Dahl estate. Roald Dahl hated the 1971 movie because they took his own adapted screenplay and basically decided it wasn't good enough to film, so they hired a "ghost writer" (David Seltzer of "The Omen"), behind Dahl's back, to rewrite 30 percent of it for no screen credit. He rewrote the ending, added in the Slugworth subplot, and, well, 30 percent of the finished script. Yet Dahl received solo screenplay credit for a movie that totally pissed him off. It remained a "sore spot" for him until his death.

So his daughter, who now controls the estate, is trying to honor his wishes by steering clear of this film and its material.

But the problem is that the 1971 film is beloved around the world, considered a children's classic, with iconic songs that have been sung in commercials, recorded by pop stars ("The Candy Man" by Sammy Davis Jr. reached #1 on the Billboard pop charts), and so it's a little hard to ignore this "giant elephant in the room" when you go to see a major stage production of the story.

Add to it that they DO include one song, Pure Imagination, which only has served to remind audiences and clearly the critics, of just how good those songs really were/are ... and you have a problem.

Yes, they would have to clear using the songs through Dahl's estate, and yes, they would have to re-license the songs from the Newley estate and Leslie Bricusse, but I think it's worth it. Either that, or watch it transfer to Broadway and die a quick and very expensive death.

... because audiences don't care about estates and licensing. They want those movie songs, and "they want them now!"

Updated On: 6/27/13 at 07:11 AM

[DeNada]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 7:17am

Kad, "busy" is exactly how I would describe the second act in particular. There is just too much going on - loads of choreography, densely written songs lost in the sound design, flashing lights all over the place etc.

As for the OP, the idea that people would be slating Charlie because of the Matilda snub is fairly crazy. There's no perception of the show being "American" - the creative time aside from Shaiman/Whitman is entirely British (and no-one, save those of us who read these boards, knows who they are anyway), and Sam Mendes in particular is one of the best and brightest Brit creatives around. The show just isn't brilliant, that's all.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 7:25am

The reason Pure Imagination is in there in the first place is because Douglas Hodge said that he wouldn't do the show unless that song was in it.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 7:41am

^ Good for him!