How is Ben Platt's attendance in DEH?- Page 4

[binau]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 4:42am

I'm very curious to hear how the show works without Platt. Was anyone able to catch the understudy? Also, does the understudy seem kind of..too hot..for the role? It could just be his head shots. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 5:51am

Because attractive people don't struggle with social anxiety...or whatever the character is suppose to have?

[binau]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 4:05pm

Obviously there would be individuals who are. However, attractiveness is definitely a factor related to some of the issues at play here (you can find a bunch of research showing that physical attractiveness is related to a whole range of positive outcomes, including positive social outcomes). Kind of following up from some other comments I made about 'diversity' recently - we take for granted/no one often talks about (even though we all accept it) that physical attractiveness is - along with race, age, disability etc. - one of those demographics that will often privilege you in media and the performing arts. I think it's refreshing that Ben Platt does look like a little bit what an outsider might actually look like in a high school. Too often we accept the portrayal of 'social outsiders' to be played by people who look like models. 
 

[Nycat63]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 5:29pm

qolbinau said: "Obviously there would be individuals who are. However, attractiveness is definitely a factor related to some of the issues at play here (you can find a bunch of research showing that physical attractiveness is related to a whole range of positive outcomes, including positive social outcomes). Kind of following up from some other comments I made about 'diversity' recently - we take for granted/no one often talks about (even though we all accept it) that physical attractiveness is - along with race, age, disability etc. - one of those demographics that will often privilege you in media and the performing arts. I think it's refreshing that Ben Platt does look like a little bit what an outsider might actually look like in a high school. Too often we accept the portrayal of 'social outsiders' to be played by people who look like models. 
 

 

Except that brain chemistry and wiring are completely unrelated to physical appearance.  My son is a combination of Connor and Evan from a mental health/social standpoint yet he is- and I say this completely objectively with no understanding of how he got there genetically because neither my husband nor I could be described this way - gorgeous.  Despite his appearance, he is socially isolated but for a girlfriend at another HS who is even more stunning and equally struggling with near-crippling anxiety. Sure, physical appearance is generally a huge asset socially, professionally, etc, but I would venture a guess that theyve really only studied "neurotypical" people.  Mental health disorders and developmental disorders (e.g. Spectrum) likely cancel most of those positive effects out.  So seeing a good looking kid playing Evan would not jar me one bit. Frankly it might drive the point home that this can happen to anyone.  

 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 5:43pm

Just to bandwagon on that, did anyone ever see Marilyn Monroe and her mom? 

Here's a picture of Marilyn/Norma, Gladys and Berniece:



Easy to see where Marilyn got her beauty from -- her mom and sister both have the heart-shaped faces, large wide-set eyes and cherry lips. Unfortunately Gladys was institutionalized for most of her life with mental instability and Marilyn picked up all her mother's instability. People in Hollywood who worked with her said she was a social, emotional, and psychological wreck. Other gorgeous Hollywood trainwrecks: Montgomery Clift, Vivien Leigh, Rita Hayworth, Natalie Wood, William Holden.

Ben Platt's achievement in DEH has as much to do with his mannerisms, his tics, his body language. Instagram pictures of him show an unremarkable looking young man. 

[binau]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 7:05pm

So a couple of points - regarding counter-examples. I see this all the time in reasoning on almost any matter and it always puzzles me. In the social sciences, when you say "there is a relationship between X and Y" it doesn't mean "every X has trait Y". The world is complex and pulling anecdotal counter examples of attractive people with social issues does not make the claim "there is a relationship between physical attractiveness and positive social outcomes" (among many other outcomes) any less true. This has been empirically observed - you can find a number of empirical research studies on the subject. I'm not claiming that all physically attractive people have it great socially, simply that there is a relationship and personally I would prefer the casting to reflect that (but agree for exactly the points you have made that perhaps it doesn't HAVE to be).

People get that though, but just to reinforce examples of what it sounds like. If someone says "African American people are disadvantaged" you can't say "but look at Obama" and think it makes the claim any less true. Similarly, if someone says "Women are disadvantaged in leadership roles and tend to get paid less than men" you can't say "but look at Marillyn Hewson at Lockheed Martin - she is a CEO and gets paid $18 million a year" and think it makes the claim any less true.

Second thing - regarding the specific mechanisms that people have mental health issues or that physical attractiveness is related to different outcomes. Unfortunately, there is I think (and is debated) an unfortunate movement where psychological issues, such as mental illness, are over medicalised and treated and conceptualised as if they are simply issues with the physical 'chemistry' or 'wiring' of the brain (as someone mentioned). In reality, psychological issues are much more complex and to understand why someone might be experiencing the issues they are facing you need to look outside the medical model and at the psychological issues too. The way physical attractiveness likely impacts social outcomes is through a whole range of processes - for example, fearing or actually experiencing rejection from peers because people do treat physically attractive people differently than people who are less attractive. These kind of experiences can interact with a whole range of internal psychological factors (e.g., personality traits) and behaviours (e.g., avoidance - 'stepping out of the sun', perhaps) to cause psychological issues. I lament when some medical professionals (and I've worked with some!), who don't appear to know anything about psychology, conceptualise and treat mental health issues as if it is simply a physical illness located in the brain. This will not be effective for many people.

Updated On: 5/4/17 at 07:05 PM

[Andy51]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 7:41pm

"I'm not claiming that all physically attractive people have it great socially, simply that there is a relationship and personally I would prefer the casting to reflect that (but agree for exactly the points you have made that perhaps it doesn't HAVE to be).

People get that though, but just to reinforce examples of what it sounds like. If someone says "African American people are disadvantaged" you can't say "but look at Obama" and think it makes the claim any less true. Similarly, if someone says "Women are disadvantaged in leadership roles and tend to get paid less than men" you can't say "but look at Marillyn Hewson at Lockheed Martin - she is a CEO and gets paid $18 million a year" and think it makes the claim any less true."

It seems to follow (if not strictly logically, then at least in the spirit of your comments) that you would prefer to see African Americans cast as disadvantaged persons and women cast in non-leadership roles (or less advantaged leadership roles).  And I think that would reasonably strike many people as problematic.

 

Updated On: 5/4/17 at 07:41 PM

[binau]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 8:58pm

So there is a double standard (which I mostly agree with) that's it ok or more ok to cast disadvantaged demographics in privileged roles (e.g., African Americans in colour blind 'white' roles) than it is to cast privileged demographics in disadvantaged roles (e.g., White people in 'black' roles). This discussion is more just an extension of that - I understand though no one seems to care or talk about the privilege of attractiveness though. But it's alive and well - if you're ugly you are much, much more disadvantaged when it comes to securing a leading role (particularly if you're female). Hell, we have a show called 'ugly betty' where the lead actress is not even ugly! Less physically attractive people can be character actors and villains. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 8:23am

qolbinau said: "...no one seems to care or talk about the privilege of attractiveness though. But it's alive and well - if you're ugly you are much, much more disadvantaged when it comes to securing a leading role (particularly if you're female)."

I hear what you're saying. At the office where I work, a very attractive young man was hired just a couple of years ago as an intern. He quickly became a permanent, salaried employee and just recently zoomed up to a highly coveted role in the organization. I'm not discounting his job-related skills, but his experience has been the very definition of the "fast track" while others hired before him who are equally capable are still in their same old positions. Whether it's done consciously or not, the world gives special concessions to the beautiful people.

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 8:51am

I agree that the role of Evan is more compelling when an average looking person plays the role, simply because he becomes more relatable and more believable that he has kind of disappeared into the background.  There is also an overabundance of (yes I'm going to use this word) white twinks on Broadway.  Evan gives an opportunity to cast a normal, average, realistic looking person in a Broadway show.  It's a role that doesn't require you to be gorgeous, it requires you to be human.

Also, I hope we see some Evans of color in the future.  His story is really universal to people of all color, shape, and physical appearance and frankly I don't care what the actor looks like, so long as they give a great performance.

[AC126748]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:33am

In case anyone was wondering, Ben was back in the show as of last night.

[theaterguy11]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 6:29pm

I simply do not get the hype about Platt or his performance. I truly did not think he works for the show. Caught it Off Broadway and just found him unappealing in almost every way. Couldn't stand his character so the show didn't really work for me. Obviously I'm in the minority on this one but I would love to see if a more appealing actor could make this show work. Perhaps someone not related to one of the most powerful producers in Hollywood....

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 6:55pm

theaterguy11 said: "I simply do not get the hype about Platt or his performance. I truly did not think he works for the show. Caught it Off Broadway and just found him unappealing in almost every way. Couldn't stand his character so the show didn't really work for me. Obviously I'm in the minority on this one but I would love to see if a more appealing actor could make this show work. Perhaps someone not related to one of the most powerful producers in Hollywood....

Are you saying you didn't like him because..... he wasn't "appealing" to you?  What do you mean by appealing?  Do you mean his physical appearance?  Was he not attractive enough for you?

Perhaps he's extremely talented and has gotten to where he is because he's talented.  Seriously, what's wrong with you? Did you lose out on a role to him or something?

 

[theaterguy11]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 6:59pm

icecreambenjamin :Are you saying you didn't like him because..... he wasn't "appealing" to you?  What do you mean by appealing?  Do you mean his physical appearance?  Was he not attractive enough for you?

Perhaps he's extremely talented and has gotten to where he is because he's talented.  Seriously, what's wrong with you? Did you lose out on a role to him or something?

 

I didn't care for *anything* about his performance. It surprised me that someone so unappealing in every way, not just physical appearance, could be cast in the title role of a new Broadway musical. When I realized who he was related to it made a lot more sense. 

 

[ethan231h]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 7:00pm

theaterguy11 said: "I simply do not get the hype about Platt or his performance. I truly did not think he works for the show. Caught it Off Broadway and just found him unappealing in almost every way. Couldn't stand his character so the show didn't really work for me. Obviously I'm in the minority on this one but I would love to see if a more appealing actor could make this show work. Perhaps someone not related to one of the most powerful producers in Hollywood....

 

"

please leave. thanks. 

[ijest22]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 10:59pm

ethan231h said: "theaterguy11 said: "I simply do not get the hype about Platt or his performance. I truly did not think he works for the show. Caught it Off Broadway and just found him unappealing in almost every way. Couldn't stand his character so the show didn't really work for me. Obviously I'm in the minority on this one but I would love to see if a more appealing actor could make this show work. Perhaps someone not related to one of the most powerful producers in Hollywood....

 

"

please leave. thanks. 

 

"

Bump

[DramaTeach]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:03pm

Was thinking about it, and I think the guy who played Davey in Newsies, Ben something, would be a really good Evan Hansen.  

[persephone88]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:06pm

Was he out Wednesday night? We saw the Wed matinee show and his higher register seemed to be straining. His belt was still terrific, and his acting 100% top notch as usual, but I was wondering if he'd make it through the show or for the pm performance. Evan is an incredibly demanding role, I don't know how he puts it all out there night after night. I was glad my friend got to see him, but I'm sure his understudies would be delighted to get some performance time!

[Javi]

Posted: 5/6/17 at 12:53am

What's Rachel Bay Jones' attendance like?  I'm so happy she got a Tony nomination for this. She should have gotten one for 'Pippin'. Saw her in that three times. She was superb. 

[sondheimfan3]

Posted: 5/6/17 at 1:34am

persephone88 said: "Was he out Wednesday night?"

Yes, he was out Wednesday night.

 

Javi said: "What's Rachel Bay Jones' attendance like?  I'm so happy she got a Tony nomination for this. She should have gotten one for 'Pippin'. Saw her in that three times. She was superb."

Rachel has missed two shows so far, both matinees, on Sunday January 22nd (for a family obligation) and on Saturday April 29th. 

[Javi]

Posted: 5/6/17 at 1:36am

Thanks for that, Sondheimfan3. I'm seeing it Sunday matinee this week. Fingers crossed Ben and Rachel are both on. :)

[Mediamaven2]

Posted: 5/6/17 at 6:45pm

fwiw at today's matinee everyone on except  character of Jared Kleinman: Michael Lee Brown /understudy was on. 

[smoff13]

Posted: 7/10/17 at 11:22am

Are there any holidays in the last two weeks of October that Ben would miss for?

Updated On: 7/10/17 at 11:22 AM

[Giulsasaro]

Posted: 7/10/17 at 6:04pm

Do you know if he will be in Thursday September 21st? I bought tickets and then found out it's rosh hashana. I think he will be in, I just want to make sure. 

[haterobics]

Posted: 7/10/17 at 6:38pm

smoff13 said: "Are there any holidays in the last two weeks of October that Ben would miss for?"

Halloween?