I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God — Page 2

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#26

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 9:56am

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I think "I'm not that Girl" is a hauntingly beautiful song. I'm sure there are plenty of women who can recall a time in their lives when they could identify with that song.

I may not know a lot about theater but I know that I love it.

#27

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 10:47am

I agree. Pippin alone puts him way up there, IMO. Those are some of the best songs and lyrics I know.

#28

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 11:15am

I actually can't stand "For Good." It sounds like it was written for a high school graduation.

I should also add in his favor though that "Lion Tamer" is a really simple and pretty song.

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!

Updated On: 12/7/08 at 11:15 AM

#29

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 11:34am

I love Schwartz' work in The Magic Show as well, which is often overlooked. His deft clever lyrics in such gems as Charmin's Lament, The Goldfarb Variations and Two's Company deserve a nod.

And Chanson from The Baker's Wife is one of the most beautiful songs ever written. I put it right up there with What Makes Me Love Him from the Apple Tree.

I also like the "bridges you crossed" lyric, but I have explained that in detail in another thread.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#30

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 12:04pm

Reagrding every composer having good and bad work, sure. The more prolific someone is, the more likely it is they're going to write something that seemingly doesn't live up to something else they've done. For me, though, with Schwartz the disparity is more obvious and more drastic. 'Pippin's a perfect example, moving from a great pop ballad like 'Corner of the Sky' to a very clever 'War Is A Science' to a great song like 'Glory' but then limping around with a clunker like 'Spread A Little Sunshine' to a pretty sophomoric 'Extraordinary' to a long-winded 'Kind of Woman.' Then it resurges with a really strong finale. And I feel that way about all of Schwartz's work.

#31

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 12:41pm

I like Corner Of The Sky but didn't include it in my list because I was in a singing group in high school that sang it constantly. It was like our signature song. I knda got tired of it!

And regarding the "S" word, well that, like all of our posts, is a matter of opinion. One I disagree with!

Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder

#32

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 12:57pm

"For Good" made me realize that I HATE the word "like" in song lyrics. (Like a Prayer and Like a Virgin don't count).

"[Gore] was widely perceived as arrogant. If you know something, you're not smart. You're a smarty-pants. It's annoying. People get annoyed with your knowledge. It goes back to high school, to not doing your homework ... 'There's something I should know, I don't know why I should know it but someone knows it and I don't. So I'm going to have to make fun of him now.'" -Sarah Vowell, The Partly-Cloudy Patriot

#33

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 1:20pm

I'm listening to the cast recording of "Children of Eden" right now and it's surprisingly good, great at times. I agree with what a lot of people have said already, Schwartz can be hit or miss but some of his work is beautiful, imo.

"You don't just stop posting horse s*** on the web!"-The [Title of Show] Show

#34

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 1:53pm

I don't care for the bulk of Wicked, but I love the underscoring and the "overture" in the beginning, so that makes me like it.

#35

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 1:57pm

Schwartz has written some nice music, but most of it amounts to "bubblegum pop"

"Long live God!" (GODSPELL)

Updated On: 12/7/08 at 01:57 PM

#36

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 2:16pm

His shows always are filled with one dynamic song, some promising work, missed opportunities, and clunkers. I think his best work was as lyricist for Rags. But his lyrics often seem at odds with the book. I often feel he is being overly poetic without any clear rhyme or reason. For example, "Meadowlark" is a beautiful song, but the lyric "finally for the first time", in reference to her affair, makes no sense when you learn that she had a true love prior to the play. Wicked is full of clumsy lyrics and pandering melody (the love duet between Elphaba and Fiyero for example). He's a talented guy, but I think if he focused his art he'd have more respect and acclaim.

#37

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 2:22pm

He is just wildly inconsistent. And when he's bad, he's cringeworthy.

Totally agree. I have a great fondness for some of his works, and I will also have a special place in my heart for Godspell, but the inconsistency makes me wonder if he's sloppy or just has a tendency toward the bubblegum that can often can't or won't curb. That keeps him from being on the game-changing Sondheim level. (Granted, how many are?)

#38

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 3:19pm

BobbyBubby: Didn't her true love reject her, though? And she's saying that finally, for the first time, the guy wants her too?

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!

#39

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/7/08 at 7:32pm

I have to say, I love Children of Eden's score, almost entirely. Lost in the Wilderness, Generations of Adam, Ain't it Good, Spark of Creation...the list of great songs is quite long in my opinion. I think he is a great composer of our time. Who gets to decide these things, anyway?

#40

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 3:17am

Hahah can I just give 15 points to whomever referred to wicked as a "hacky hot mess"? Although I secretly LOVE the show, I totally agree. The score is gorgeous but some of the lyrics and book....I think the For Good lyrics are incredibly cheesy.

#41

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 10:19am

I think "For Good" fits perfectly in the show and works outside the framework equally well. The "for good" line fits especially well considering the show's theme of "good" and "Wicked." I can't imagine a song fitting that spot better.

#42

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 10:28am

and please don't use the "S" word because he's been pure miss since 1989.

- I really do not want to turn this thread into a discussion about the other "S". But come on, pure miss since 1989? An Oscar for Best Song, another Tony for Best Score, and that is miss? I am sure Schwartz wishes he could miss that much to actually win his first Tony. And as far as I am concerned, Assassins, Passion, and Road Show put together are better than anything Schwartz has done.

Updated On: 12/8/08 at 10:28 AM

#43

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 10:37am

This thread is funny...

"Carson has combined his passion for helping children with his love for one of Cincinnati's favorite past times - cornhole - to create a unique and exciting event perfect for a corporate outing, entertaining clients or family fun."

"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS

#44

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 2:28pm

Except that the show Wicked hardly ever addresses the concept of good and evil. Of right and wickedness. All it is a show here Elphaba is victimized from the moment she walks on stage to her exit with a lame and uninteresting love triangle in the middle.

#45

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 2:38pm

I purchased "Children of Eden" for the two songs I mentioned. I actually pulled it out and played it while reading this thread and posting and I was nie to revisit it after about a year. Also, "I'm Not That Girl" is my best friend's favorite from "Wicked". He played it a lot when the OBCR came out.

Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder

#46

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 4:39pm

ScottyDoesn'tKnow: OMG, that's exactly the point I was trying to make in another thread, only you phrased it so much better.

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!

#47

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 5:00pm

I guess people get what they want out of it; I think the Good/Wicked thing is pretty obvious. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz is pretty awful, actually. The Wicked Witch isn't. Glinda the Good gets that title by shafting her best friend. If they had hammered it home any harder you'd be bitching that they made it too obvious.

People hate Schwartz. I'm not entirely sure why, but they sure do.

#48

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 5:15pm

That's the message that they want you to get out of it, but IMO it's poorly executed and all we get is a reversal of roles. It doesn't actually give insight into what makes a person evil or good... except for enslaving monkeys, I suppose.

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!

#49

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 5:22pm

Well, not to belabor it but I think the whole point is no that people ARE good or evil, that it's actually all about perception.
"A man's called a traitor - or liberator
A rich man's a thief - or philanthropist
Is one a crusader - or ruthless invader?
It's all in which label
Is able to persist
There are precious few at ease
With moral ambiguities
So we act as though they don't exist"

And the "Wicked" witch? Well, she could just as easily be the "Wonderful Witch":

"They call me "Wonderful"
So I am wonderful
In fact - it's so much who I am
It's part of my name
And with my help, you can be the same
At long, long last receive your due
Long overdue
Elphaba - The most celebrated
Are the rehabilitated
There'll be such a - whoop-de-doo
A celebration throughout Oz
That's all to do - with you

Wonderful
They'll call you wonderful!"

#50

re: I don't care what you say, Stephen Schwartz is a God

Posted: 12/8/08 at 5:26pm

well i thought the good wicked dualism was one of the better executed aspects of the show - what's not to understand? It's perception that makes a person good or evil, whether all or not one is good or evil inanely.

Edit: Ah, Joe you beat me to it! :)

In Soviet Russia, Wicked hates you too!

Updated On: 12/8/08 at 05:26 PM

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