Just back from the first preview of PORGY AND BESS....- Page 2

[trentsketch]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 10:56pm

I'm sorry, Henrike. I just want to make sure I understood what you posted correctly.

Did you really just compare adapting a straight play into a musical to the creative team for an American opera/musical deciding they know better than the original creators and titling their new adaptation after 2/3 of the show's creators? Because adapting a non-musical into a musical is a lot different than rewriting and reorchestrating a musical and claiming it's the real version of the show.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 10:57pm

I haven't seen any production of Porgy and Bess, but how is that more fulfilling? She's still running off and he's still chasing after her, only now it has that "Susannah" flair to it.

Updated On: 8/18/11 at 10:57 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 11:19pm

Not quite, Trentsketch. I didn't justify the new title and it's eliminated Heyward, which I think is ridiculous. I merely questioned the hysteria about the ending before we've even seen what the hell it is. And, yes, I did compare it to My Fair Lady taking liberties with Pygmalion, especially since Shaw - remember him? - was quite clear that he never wanted the end of his play, in any version, to imply that Eliza and Henry would stay together.

The fact is, however, that My Fair Lady is a masterpiece, and it's ending sublime.

All I'm saying is can't we hold off on trashing the end of this production until we actually see it? Again, even Sondheim conceded - in the midst of all of his concerns about this production - that it might possibly work.
Updated On: 8/19/11 at 11:19 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 11:23pm

"It's ironic that "the theater! the theater!" which understandably delighted in the change that Lerner, Loewe and Hart gave to Shaw's famous and cherished ending to "Pygmalion" has to condemn the change that Paulus and Parks are now giving to Heyward and the Gershwins' famous and cherished ending to "Porgy and Bess," before we've even seen the damn thing!"

Not a fair comparison at all. That's a play to a musical. Different art forms. This is not just a different interpretation of material, it's a total overhaul of a show. It's like changing Follies so that Ben ends up with Sally. That would change the whole mood and feeling and point of the show.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 11:28pm

Suzan Lori Parks's discarded first draft of the new ending:

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 11:38pm

I suppose I'm the only person on earth who isn't enthralled by McDonald's trills.

[Enjolras77]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:02am

PalJoey -- I think that is the ending to "Porky" and Bess.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:03am

And MY FAIR LADY is not called PYGMALION.

Changing the title to the female character says this is gonna be more about Eliza and she will get her happy ending.
Which sounds familiar to this new BESS ending.
So I suggest the new title:
BESS MY WOMAN.

[justoldbill]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:13am

SMELLY REVISIONIST BULLPOOP.

[pinoyidol2006]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:18am

^I appreciate the use of "bullpoop."

[jewishboy]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:45am

I thought Lerner, Lowe and Hart did not change the ending to Pygmalion. Didn't the movie with Leslie Howard change it before they started writing My Fair Lady.

[malletgirl02]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:55am

@jewishboy, yes the ending was change for the movie. Also I think Shaw actually wrote the screenplay for the Howard movie.

[justoldbill]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 1:16am

I'm a little muddled. After all of Catfish Row, including Porgy (!) pressures Bess to leave, and Porgy exhibits a change of mind (if not necessarily of heart), suddenly everyone joins Porgy in "I'm On My Way" ENCOURAGINGLY ????? Oh, the mood swings!

I'm confused.

[bk]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 1:51am

I'm with Phil Crosby - people writing about this who have no knowledge of the opera whatsoever? I guess youth either has its advantages or disadvantages.

"I only know the original ending from a synopsis I read, but to me, this ending is much more... fulfilling."

You only know the original ending from a synopsis - a SYNOPSIS - and you think you can make a judgment that this thing they're doing is more fulfilling. Here's a novel idea - go buy the opera and listen to it. First of all, it will be good for you. Second of all, then maybe then you can make a post where you can compare the two. You certainly cannot compare it when you have no idea how it works when all the elements are combined. You certainly can't read a synopsis and think you know how the original ending works.

I just read these things and scratch my head, really. I will wait for someone who knows the opera to post something because kids posting who have no idea what the original is like is pretty pointless in terms of chat and debate.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 1:58am

If only you could run this board with your delicate yet iron-fisted moderation, we could separate the DRs from the chaffe. Unfortunately, in the anarchic world of the internet, people can just go right on ahead and publish their opinions, whether or not they rise to your standard of "informed" or not. But I am sure you will somehow survive.

[bk]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 2:22am

Thank you for your concern. I shall sleep very well tonight. Perhaps you can find every other thread that I've posted in so you can make some more pithy remarks. You do pith very well and I know you know that I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Updated On: 8/19/11 at 02:22 AM

[inlovewithjerryherman]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 2:24am

"BESS MY WOMAN"

oh lord, curtain. that made me laugh.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 7:55am

Sorry, henrik, when I asked that question, I was assuming you had read what I read upthread about the new ending. (We got it again a couple posts later, in a more fleshed-out version.) Whether or not it "works" is, of course, entirely subjective... but personally I'm not really interested in that. What most people are objecting to is the principle, the ethics, and motivation behind making any changes at all.

I'm actually finding a little disturbing the suggestion that people may find this ending "more fulfilling." What's fulfilling? As my brother used to tell me, "Just because it feels good doesn't mean it's right."

On paper, this new PORGY ending sounds like it may allow theatergoes to go "Rah rah rah" on the way out the door, but that doesn't really change my opinion of the tampering. The possibility that it's dumbed-down offends me, but the fact that it's happened at all worries me.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 8:31am

Thanks for the "spoiler"

When this was announced I was really excited to see this cast do this show. Having read about it for the last month my excitement has changed to anger.

I won't waste my money buying a ticket. I wouldn't even waste my time watching a bootleg. The arrogance that is being shown by the producers and director is staggering.

In the 19th century it was very fasionable to give happy endings to the tragedies of Shakespeare. These have disappeared. Hopefully this version of Porgy and Bess will disappear even faster.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 8:54am

Yes, I am aware that My Fair Lady is a musical and Pygmalion a play. However, I anticipated that counterargument, and made clear in my first post that I thought the comparison was still appropriate. Apart from the score and the ending, the works are otherwise quite similar in tone, and, as I said, Shaw left explicit instructions that he never wanted Eliza and Henry to appear to go off into the sunset - or in this case the fog of Belgravia - together. And as I've said, the liberties taken worked anyway; like a charm. Everyone else is free to disagree, of course.

But that wasn't my main point. I haven't seen the show yet. I have no idea what liberties were taken with the ending and how they play and am quite perplexed why everyone is jumping on a trashbandwagon prematurely; who knows? you might be surprised that it works; if not, then fire away, but why not give it a chance?

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:15am

For the record - the "happy" ending where Eliza returns to Henry Higgins originated in the 1938 film version of Pymallion with Leslie Howard and Wendy Hiller.
Updated On: 8/19/11 at 09:15 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:22am

Good point, though my understanding was that Shaw was not pleased.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:23am

Although, curiously, if I recall correctly he is credited with the screenplay.

[justoldbill]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:28am

"And then they all go to the seashore."- ILLYA DARLING

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 9:32am

Shaw was very displeased, but understood that this is what happened to a lot of film adaptations of stage works.

Tennessee Williams also had to suffer through this, they gave happy endings to "Glass Menagerie" and "Sweet Bird of Youth".

Just because it has happened before does not mean that it's all right to do now.
Updated On: 8/19/11 at 09:32 AM