KINKY BOOTS to win the Tony over MATILDA?- Page 6

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 8:55pm

If this thread indicates anything, it's that there are a large amount of reactions to both shows, and that these thoughts can be the same reactions from Tony Voters. The question is: how do these thoughts factor into a Voter's decision on a ballot?

I sense KINKY BOOTS votes coming from more Voters than expected.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 9:04pm

For those who feel Kinky Boots is not innovative, can anyone recall another show about a bromance between a genderqueer protagonist and a straight guy?

It's a variation on a common theme, but the innovation stops at the variation in the plot, which was based on a film. There is little-to-no innovation in the staging or the storytelling. It's pretty traditional.

For those who complain Lola's character is not as easily pigeonholed as it should be as transsexual, gay, whatever, I wonder whether it has occurred to you to consider that that ambiguity – the refusal to be pigeonholed – is precisely what makes Lola's character interesting?

I never complained, but I didn't find the lack of detail interesting at all. Clearly, we're not supposed to be concerned with Lola's love life or sexual preference. And now, we're not to even question it. I assumed when watching the show that Lola was a gay man based on my own personal experiences with drag queen entertainers, but apparently, I fell into some sort of shame trap. I apologize for assigning sexual preference to a character that the authors did not want to be thought of sexually. Mea culpa. It still doesn't make Lola more interesting to my past self when I was watching the show. The only thing interesting I found about Lola was that she's somehow manages to speak in ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME MAKING EVERY SENTENCE SOUND THE SAME. And that was interesting for abut 5 minutes. Then it was just monotonous.

To those who proclaim Kinky Boots less of a "thinking man's show," (others' term, not mine) than Matilda, below is a link to an ABC news interview with Cyndi Lauper last week after they named her person of the week. Check out the part where she mentions that because she speaks with a Queens accent, people sometimes mistake her for a "dummy," but says "I'm no dummy." I have nothing but respect for this woman – her talent, her character, and her intelligence. Perhaps the audience liking it aren't all dummies either. I'm not.

So...how does Cyndi Lauper's self-esteem connect to the book writing of the show? I'm sure the lighting designer for Good Vibrations thinks he's no dummy, too. Being less of a "thinking man's show" isn't the same as saying someone who enjoys it is a dummy. It's a false comparison.

For those who think Kinky Boots can't play Tampa, do they get ABC in Tampa?

For those who think "for those who" questions get tiring, please ignore this response and the related question.

Updated On: 5/7/13 at 09:04 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 9:17pm

The question is: how do these thoughts factor into a Voter's decision on a ballot?

The answer is: They don't unless we're Tony voters.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 9:19pm

It doesn't hurt that the creative team of Kinky Boots are familiar names. Even if Warchus and Darling are Tony winners, their work isn't as mainstream or known as the three names attached to Kinky Boots. Just a thought.

(And I know, why should we have to think of it this way...but one can't count it out.)

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 9:39pm

"Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can't judge which show is better when you're seeing one of them on YouTube. Dumb."

What do you mean?

[Up In One]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 10:19pm

Labwyfan I am interested in the change of POV you experienced at Matilda. The concept of you can change the world no matter how small you are is a wonderful sentiment but how did the show help you move from someone who didn't believe in the sentiment to someone who now does?

From my perspective Matilda comes to proving that sentiment thru revengeful tricks and magical paranormal talents. Not exactly a how to lesson for someone to idolize. While the lyrics contain a lofty set of words the songs never build to a statement or sentiment worthy of absorbing as a life lesson. For me it was a cartoon that could have used less talk and more fun.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 10:32pm

Thos thread is funny because people think it actually matters.

[Up In One]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 10:38pm

Someone above said

KINKY BOOTS may be about acceptance and forgiveness, but it is a "gay musical" about "gay things" at the end of the day. The design (what I've seen of it) is uninventive

Amazing that someone could say this without seeing the show. But not amazing how wrong they can be. Kinda negates his/her opinion of Matilda in my eyes.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 10:58pm

KINKY BOOTS may be about acceptance and forgiveness, but it is a "gay musical" about "gay things" at the end of the day.

And yet we're not supposed to know if any of the characters are gay.

Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:02pm

It's funny that people say KINKY BOOTS is a gay musical. I don't even think they SAY the word gay or homosexual. It doesn't talk about sex or lust of any kind.

The only thing he talks about is "his being is dedicated to them or being like them" (paraphrasing)

I don't see it as a "gay" show as much as I don't think of MATILDA as a "kids" show.

[ZiggyCringe]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:05pm

It ain't gonna happen, but I wish Christmas Story would win best musical. The score for Matilda is idiotic. The score for Kinky is marginally better. The score for Christmas Story is very smart.

It Will never happen, but I wish it would.


Updated On: 5/7/13 at 11:05 PM

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:06pm

I would imagine the "gay" connotations come from the show's notoriously flamboyant creative team.

It's hardly "about gay things," though. It's certainly not groundbreaking theater but its themes are certainly a bit deeper than that. Updated On: 5/7/13 at 11:06 PM

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:06pm

Double. Updated On: 5/7/13 at 11:06 PM

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:09pm

Its not a gay musical about gay things. The lead character of the show is a heterosexual white guy who has a girl friend, loses the girl friend and gets another girl friend. The only romantic sexual relationship that is touched on at all is his. The actor that plays him is the one that takes the final curtain call. It's really his story.

The man he comes in contact with is a drag queen - you can assume what you wish but his sexual orientation is not ever discussed. And the relationship of the two guys changes both of them..and a lot of the people around them as well, the majority of which are definitely NOT gay or dressed in drag.

So to me it's not a gay anything...it's just a story about different people who are actually not so different after all.

[Movidude742]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 4:11am

I had some concerns about being able to hear the lyrics in Matilda. I can't tell you if it was the accents or the speed or just the poor sound of the show, but while Icould convey the mood, I just couldn't make out the words too often.

I keep thinking about what Sondheim has said when people ask if he has or should write poetry. advance apologies for this horrible paraphrase. He points out that poetry and show lyrics are 2 different things. Poetry you can go back and read over at will. Show lyrics need to be concise and convey their meaning in an instant because you can't rewind live theater. I already knew a couple songs from Matilda before I saw it, and no surprise, those were the ones I enjoyed the most. Too many others I just couldn't hear them. I am sure I will love them once I listen through the cast recording a few times, but even then it would be too late.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 4:32am

Tim Minchin is not one for being concise, that's for sure.

[tazber]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 6:14am

I don't think anyone expects the comments in this thread to have any real bearing on the actual winners, but it's an interesting internal debate for getting a sense of what we (as theater patrons) enjoy/don't enjoy in a show.

Personally I'm all for Matilda. I was completely transported by the show. Admittedly the second act gets a bit draggy in spots, but it was an exhilarating evening of theater for me. It was family friendly, but only superficially. There is a lot to chew on for adults too.

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 9:50am

Okay, my mistake for saying KINKY BOOTS is a "gay musical". You're right. I haven't seen it yet. But I've seen the movie, I've seen the ad campaign, and I've seen the preview clips and so on and to say that KINKY BOOTS wouldn't come off, marketing-wise, as a "gay musical" to tourists and ticket buyers across the country would just be ridiculous. It may not be about gay relationships or gay sex, but that doesn't make it any less Gay-with-a-capital-G. If we're trying to decipher which would garner more road votes, the musical less likely to rock the boat would probably win out (MATILDA).

To say that my misreading of KINKY BOOTS negates my opinion on MATILDA makes no sense at all. I spoke incorrectly. One has nothing to do with the other.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 10:39am

Personally I am pulling for Kinky Boots. I saw it out of town and fell in love with it.
It could win. Three groups of friends of mine saw the show over the last couple of weeks. None of them are what I would call “Theatre People”, though they all enjoy going to the theatre, and all of them thought “Kinky Boots” was incredible and the best show they saw that trip.

My sister and her niece also went up to NYC recently and saw "Matilda" and "Kinky Boots". Both preferred “Kinky Boots”, though they admitted that opinion might have been tempered by what happened before they saw “Matilda”. They had been walking all day and arrived at the theatre an hour and a half before show time. Because they were tired, they hung out around the theatre. They got a chance to listen and watch the kids of the show as they hung out outside the stage door. When they saw the show , they had a hard time liking the kids in the show knowing what “insufferable brats” they were in real life. They both said they were appalled at the attitudes of these little twits and how much their stage mothers let them get away with.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 10:45am

It may not be about gay relationships or gay sex, but that doesn't make it any less Gay-with-a-capital-G.

Harvey seems to think so!

If we're trying to decipher which would garner more road votes, the musical less likely to rock the boat would probably win out (MATILDA).

Please. Kinky Boots is more safe than Priscilla, Spring Awakening, Rent, Falsettos, La Cage, American Idiot, Tommy, Avenue Q and any other musical that has toured that included gay characters and/or any sort of sexual situation. I don't think any musical this season is going to rock any boats anywhere. If Matilda garners more road votes (weren't there some changes in the Tony rules regarding tour producers or something?), it will most likely be for being a family show and having a more visually stunning design.

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 10:49am

Kinky Boots is more safe than Priscilla, Spring Awakening, Rent, Falsettos, La Cage, American Idiot, Tommy, Avenue Q and any other musical that has toured that included gay characters and/or any sort of sexual situation.

Oh, I'm not arguing that KINKY BOOTS is actually controversial. But to the people buying tickets who have yet to see the show (like myself, for example), it would be easy to misinterpret.

[dreaming]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 10:50am

I spoke with a tourist last night (going to another show), who tried to get tickets to Kinky Boots-and could not. They were going to try for cancellations to it.

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 11:30am

It's a variation on a common theme, but the innovation stops at the variation in the plot, which was based on a film. There is little-to-no innovation in the staging or the storytelling. It's pretty traditional.

I agree. And, I have no qualms with it being more traditional than not, it’s when people try to laud it as something innovative that frustrates me.

In terms of Lola’s sexuality, I would normally agree that we as audience members don’t need to know, however, because they do choose to add in the lines about Lola “getting women” (forgive me, I cannot remember the exact lines), I think it automatically allows the audience to be able to ponder it and want to know more. Every bit of information that is given to us by the script is the audience’s way of understanding and learning who the characters are. One could argue that in a musical about acceptance (in this case, in particular, acceptance of those in the queer community) the sexuality of the character may be important to understand. Or, at least, understanding how the character feels about his or her own sexuality. So, because the script does touch on Lola’s sexuality even just a little bit, I think it’s completely reasonable for audience members to want to know more. Now, whether it’s that Lola is gay/straight/doesn’t know/refuses to be labeled – doesn’t matter! I just wish the show had taken a stance on it (as has been discussed on here, perhaps the show’s lack of ability to take a stance on this has something to do with Porter and Fierstein’s dissenting opinions on Lola’s sexuality). I think the show could have used this as a chance to open up people’s minds about the queer culture. While it is clearly not universally accepted, more and more people are becoming okay with someone being gay. However, there is still a huge mentality against those who don’t know or refuse to be labeled (even within the gay community). If the show decided they weren’t sure what Lola’s sexuality is or Lola doesn’t even know, then give us a line about that! It may make audience members begin to see that perhaps, for some, sexuality is an ongoing thing that can’t always be identified. For a show that very clearly wants to send out a message of acceptance, I think they play it quite safe. Push the boundary just a little bit and the show might really make a difference in some minds.

For those who complain Lola's character is not as easily pigeonholed as it should be as transsexual, gay, whatever, I wonder whether it has occurred to you to consider that that ambiguity – the refusal to be pigeonholed – is precisely what makes Lola's character interesting?

The thing is, though, we don’t know if Lola refuses to be pigeonholed! We have no idea how she feels about her own sexuality or sexuality in general. It would make the character much more interesting (and different and innovative) if we knew this about her, but the script does not give us enough information to know anything about this side of Lola.

I also have issues with Porter’s stereotypical portrayal of Lola – as Mister Matt mentioned earlier, she speaks in all caps and in italics throughout the whole show (except when she appears as Simon). I would love to see her in full drag speaking normally. Porter’s portrayal, for me, also just plays right into what the mainstream wants: they want their drag queens funny, brassy, fierce, and loud. For a show that is trying to show how everyone, queer or not, are all human beings, I would love for their genderqueer character to speak regularly, even in full drag (not all the time, just sometimes).

I also want to be clear that I don’t think every gay character in theatre, film, literature, etc. must “do something” for the queer movement. But, I think it’s very clear that “Kinky” is trying to promote acceptance within the queer community. So, if you’re going to do it, really do it!

[PatrickDennis92]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 12:58pm

tazber... that kitten... Oh. My. God.

[tazber]

Posted: 5/8/13 at 1:02pm

Thanks Patrick!

It's all about those eyes.