KINKY BOOTS to win the Tony over MATILDA?- Page 8

[newintown]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 2:48pm

Many of the things I say are open to wide interpretation, Up.

I don't know how long your life has been, but I've probably been in New York for most of it...

Updated On: 5/9/13 at 02:48 PM

[eperkins]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 2:59pm

so newintown is not so new in town!

[newintown]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 3:04pm

Depends on the day, depends on the town (sounds like the title of a June Alyson/Leonard Bernstein musical)...

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 3:30pm

I'm a little confused bout all the posters proclaiming genderqueer heroism regarding Lola. I saw the show's first preview in New York -- a baffling event surrounded by screaming cheering throngs that convinced me I need never return to this show that was so not working for me. That aside, Lola had a line I'll badly paraphrase that sort of said: "I'm not gay because I don't want a bloke who wants to be with blokes." Is that line gone from the show now?

Saying she doesn't want a guy to love leaves her either asexual or straight in my book. Given that Billy Porter's performance seemed miles away from straight to me, I tag Lola asexual, and what kind of genderqueer breakthrough is that?

[newintown]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 4:02pm

Exactly, Someone - there's nothing new or insightful about presenting transvestites as sexless.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 4:24pm

You know what show is cutting edge when it comes to gender, sexuality, and queerness? Hedwig. That's a cutting edge, complicated look at at those topics. Nothin better sums up "queer" than the scene in the movie adaptation with Hedwig and Yitzhak in bed. And it's over a decade old!

Kinky Boots is toothless queerness. It's drag queens who exist to impart life lessons and be sassy and fierce.

If Lola is assexual- awesome. Explore that in the text. How the character has to manufacture sexuality to hide their lack of sexuality. That's compelling and interesting.

[labwyfan]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 4:52pm

Up In One,

I don't know how to answer your question since you pigeon-hole the Matilda concept into your own definition which I do not necessarily agree with.

But, I'm not sure Matilda changed the world or even set out to. She changed HER world. To reduce her to someone that "comes to proving that sentiment thru revengeful tricks and magical paranormal talents", is...wait...what does that even mean? "sentiment through revengeful tricks?" Huh?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 6:01pm

You think the fact that the protagonist sometimes refers to herself as Lola and sometimes to himself as Simon, sings a big number ("What a Woman Wants") that is entirely about the intentional ambiguity of masculinity, femininity, and desire, and boasts about doing the opposite of what people want isn't in the show?

Those are moments in the show, but I'm saying they weren't effective in conveying a "message" about a subculture of society. There is a statement being made about masculinity in What a Woman Wants, but taking it out of context and applying it more universally doesn't change its affect on how I viewed it in the show. And perhaps you are connected the dots intended by the creators, but I'm saying they are not going to be so obvious to everyone else, especially if the "genderqueer" aspect is supposed to be a profound topical and relevant message. It gets buried in the more common template of the underdog protagonist structure of the story.

Or you think it isn't about being genderqueer?

This. I think it's an interesting talking point, but not an intentional statement or stance based on a trendy concept in LGBT studies. Well, an old conversation given a new trendy name. I remember having these conversations in the 80s about Morrissey.

Your comments make me wonder whether you saw the show.

I did.

[Marlothom]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 6:20pm

I think the line is in reference to Don insinuating that Lola "tarts it up" (dresses like a girl) to get men, to which she replies, "why would I do that, blokes who like blokes, like blokes." Meaning, that she wants men who like men, not men who would be attracted to women.

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 7:56pm

I don't recall -- how did Hedwig do with the Tonys, and at the box office?

You have to admit, Kinky Boots sure seems to be tapping into something of the moment about what it means to be a real man or a real woman and acceptance in way that a lot of folks are relating to joyfully. I recall some of the doubters sniffing from the first preview that the enthusiastic crowds were all comped and would immediately die away. Not!

There are plenty of great shows this season, and lots of good, healthy competition. One thing is for sure: the Tony race isn't dull. Personally, I think folks are loving Kinky Boots in a way like no other show this season for a reason.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 8:26pm

I don't recall -- how did Hedwig do with the Tonys, and at the box office?

Creative deflection from the point. It did win the Obie and Outer Critics Circle. It ran Off-Broadway a couple of years and went on to countless regional and international productions. The score triggered a tribute album and several covers. Then there was the feature film, the documentary on the film, and the documentary on the tribute album.

You have to admit, Kinky Boots sure seems to be tapping into something of the moment about what it means to be a real man or a real woman and acceptance in way that a lot of folks are relating to joyfully.

I'm not admitting that because I don't believe that level of specificity to be true at all.

Personally, I think folks are loving Kinky Boots in a way like no other show this season for a reason.

I think folks are loving Kinky Boots, too. But not necessarily for your reason.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 8:32pm

Marlothon, I think you're proving my point but don't know it.

"I think the line is in reference to Don insinuating that Lola "tarts it up" (dresses like a girl) to get men, to which she replies, "why would I do that, blokes who like blokes, like blokes." Meaning, that she wants men who like men, not men who would be attracted to women."

I think the line says the opposite, that she DOESN'T want a man who likes men. Either way, this sort of ambiguity to me still seems like cowardice, not a brave new world of genderqueer barrier busting, notwithstanding Cyndi and Harvey's queer rights pedigrees.
Updated On: 5/9/13 at 08:32 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 5/9/13 at 9:02pm

Your argument wasn't about awards-clean up or box office gross. It was that Kinky Boots was a cutting-edge depiction of queer life. It's not. And, as Mister Matt has pointed out, Hedwig has had quite a good deal of success- especially considering what it's about and where it started. In fact, Ms. Lauper herself performs and has recorded songs from the score.

And I think people are loving BOTH Kinky Boots and Matilda. Hence the success of both. Unless there's been some scientific poll I've missed, there's no way to measure which one is currently being loved more by theatregoers.

[jnb9872]

Posted: 5/10/13 at 9:52am

Yeah, Kad, you missed it earlier; it was the walking-by-the-theatre-as-they-let-out which-audience-looks-happier test. Happened way back in this thread. Scientifically conclusive: MATILDA apparently is a snooze and will close in a matter of months.

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 9:17am

Now that Kinky Boots has won both the Outer Critics Circle and Drama League awards for Best Musical, it is obviously earning much love from awards voters.

There are a lot of great shows out there. This is turning out to be an interesting awards season!

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 2:07pm

With Matilda winning the New York Critics' Circle Award (and probably the Drama Desk coming up), the race is far from over. We've got a race this year!

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 2:13pm

I think the only sure thing is that there is no way to predict this category. It could go either way.

For me personally, what changed for me is that I think Kinky Boots has a much better chance than I thought it did early on. Which way the voting will go - who knows but I feel more people felt this was a done deal than they do now.

I have only seen one of the shows..going to see the other very soon.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 3:01pm

I tag Lola asexual,

You tag wrong.

Obviously, you missed the message, but sex is in the boot.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 3:32pm

This is why I love this award season because of it's uncertainty about which musical will win. I say to give both shows the best of luck.

[Wishing Only Wounds]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 3:37pm

Kinky Boots definitely has the better campaign going on... actually, I have not heard one thing about Matilda in regards to the TONY Awards besides stuff on this website and walking by the theatre, but this just popped up on my news feed:
EVERYONE'S TALKING ABOUT KINKY BOOTS!

[Theater'sBestFriend]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 3:57pm

"The race is far from over. We've got a race this year!"

You're 100% right. Anyone who foresaw a slam-dunk season was obviously a bit premature.

[BrerBear]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 5:32pm

Kinky Boots has definitely turned up the marketing to eleven. It's all over my social media sites, and they've certainly been promoting it hard with all the TV appearances and forum posts.

[Younger Brother]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 7:07pm

Say what you want about the actual show, but no one can say this is not fantastically produced.

[Younger Brother]

Posted: 5/18/13 at 7:07pm

Say what you want about the actual show, but no one can say this is not fantastically produced.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 5/19/13 at 12:38am

Which? Kinky Boots? I think Matilda was fantastically produced as well.