Miss Saigon Previews Thread- Page 11

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 3/8/17 at 6:41pm

That David Mura piece is insufferable. Jesus, all theatre traffics in stereotype. Every life ever lived on stage or off is a cliche of some kind. Welcome to reality.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 3/8/17 at 6:47pm

uncageg said: "Of the two I think Patti has a chance for a nomination.

 

"

In my opinion, Christine deserves the nomination more. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/8/17 at 7:37pm

Here's a link to blog about the show and production.  Please read and think about David Mura's comments.

The way he overreaches and makes assumptions in order to provide evidence of racism really negates his message.  He makes assumptions on the part of the authors, the fictional characters, and the audience members as well, owning their thoughts to reach his conclusions.  He makes a few valid points (mainly on the original casting of the Engineer, which I've always agreed was wrongheaded), but they are buried in a clearly biased agenda that ignores basic details such as period, setting, context and adaptation and instead attempts to speak to the intent of the creators, which is a fraudulent way to provide evidence of your theory.  This topic has been discussed to death over the years and clearly, there was no reason to assume you implied the show perpetuated stereotypes (I've never thought so) or was racist (what offended me was casting a Caucasian in an Asian role) when asking if "we needed" a revival of the show.

[theatregoer3]

Posted: 3/8/17 at 9:32pm

A Director said: "I have a problem with this show because it traffics in stereotypes."

 

Please explain in your own words how this show traffics in stereotypes and please cite examples of it from the text and direction.

Also, please go beyond the Jonathan Pryce example as I agree that was very poor judgement and should be considered yellow face.

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 2:30am

Saw the show last night, 3/8, and, fortunately, it went off without a hitch. I liked the show very much, and had no real complaints. It's a relatively straightforward revival, but with a beautiful production design that takes full advantage of the Broadway Theatre's massive stage. Make no doubt about it, though, Jon Jon Briones is the star of the show, with a performance that manages to top Jonathan Pryce's, in my opinion. Also, his diminutive stature adds a lot to the role. It's a wonderful Broadway debut. His version of "The American Dream" is quite possibly the best number of any in both the original and current productions. Eva Noblezada is impressive as Kim. She has a lovely voice, although it's not nearly as powerful as Lea Salonga's, which causes it to get a little lost from time to time in the cavernous Broadway Theatre. Can't they turn up the volume on her mic?! The rest of the cast gets the job done nicely, including Alistair Brammer, who I've noticed has been the subject of some criticism on here. To me, his voice is not so different from Simon Bowman's. It's not his fault that the role is inherently underwritten. I was never a huge fan of MISS SAIGON (I only saw it once before, in 1991), but I believe this revival does the source material proud. FYI, the show started a few minutes late, probably between 5 and 10 minutes. The intermission was 20 minutes long, and the show was out by 10:45 p.m. I got an $81.00 ticket from TKTS at 4:00 p.m., with no wait at the booth. I was sitting in seat H11, which had a great view, although it was the last seat in that row which had an unobstructed view. Any further over to the right, and Kim's room at the beginning of the show can't be seen. Here's the view from seat H11:

https://imgur.com/a/spMtI

Updated On: 3/10/17 at 02:30 AM

[blueshadows]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 4:15pm

Anyone knows the schedule of the alternate Kim?

I am looking to see the show on a Thursday night, and wanted to see Eva in the role,

Thanks for any help!

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 4:23pm

blueshadows said: "Anyone knows the schedule of the alternate Kim?

I am looking to see the show on a Thursday night, and wanted to see Eva in the role,

Thanks for any help!

So far, Eva has been off on Saturday matinee and Tuesday night. The next couple of weeks should indicate whether or not these will be her usual shows off, or if it will rotate. Also, there hasn't been a Wednesday matinee yet, so everything should be a little more clear after next week.

 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 4:24pm

A Director said: "Fosse76 said: "So, producers can bring back any show they want, unless YOU don't like it. Got it.

I didn't say that.   I have a problem with this show because it traffics in stereotypes."

I don't disagree with you here. But as proven by a lot of other threads here, there are plenty of people who will talk over those who feel personally negatively affected by this show (even those of us who used to love it).

For what it's worth, sure, there are a lot of Asian American fans of the show, but there are also plenty of Asian Americans like me and David Mura. And it's unsavory to tell someone else what/what not to be offended by, especially if the one telling it is white.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 5:43pm

Let's start with the leading lady, she is portrayed as a fighter, a woman with a heart of gold, a wonderful character. She goes through a lot, including working in prostitution and murders someone.

In what shape, way or form is this a stereotype to Asians?

[perfectlymarvelous]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 5:50pm

Well uh, the prostitute bit is definitely a start. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 6:12pm

Aside from the fact that the core of her character and role is not at all about that, I think it is kind of weird and far-fetched to call prostitution a stereotype of Asians. So far the only people who like to make that comparison are the stereotype callers and so they are basically the only ones creating this comparison and keeping it alive.

Updated On: 3/9/17 at 06:12 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 6:22pm

I'm certainly not telling anyone what to be offended by, just like I don't like being told myself.  If you only see stereotypes in Miss Saigon, then that's all you see.  I don't.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 3/9/17 at 11:42pm

Saw the revival tonight. It's very well done. Eva is great-a very good actress. Her singing is lovely, as someone stated on the quiet side. It makes you realize the gift that Lea was and how unique and special her voice is. Lea conveys emotion like no one.   The cast is serviceable vocalists but there's no star quality. I saw Norm Lewis as John in the Toronto sit down production and you knew he was going to be a star. 

Jon Jon on the other hand is stealing the show. He is remarkable and elevates the piece. I agree he is better than Price. He is a revelation. However can anyone help me out here? I swear he was the Engineer in the Non Equity tour many many years ago. Is this true? I swear I saw him before. Regardless, he's brilliant. 

[lambchop2]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 1:52am

" I swear he was the Engineer in the Non Equity tour many many years ago. Is this true? I swear I saw him before. Regardless, he's brilliant. "

He was! I saw him in 2004.

 

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 8:24am

For what it's worth, sure, there are a lot of Asian American fans of the show, but there are also plenty of Asian Americans like me and David Mura. And it's unsavory to tell someone else what/what not to be offended by, especially if the one telling it is white.

 

"

 

Ditto.

 

[BearcatBroadwayLover]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 8:48am

Hi everyone! I though I'd share my two cents about the show since I saw it recently. A couple friends and I decided to drive down to the city on Tuesday to try and snag some tickets. We arrived at the box office around 6:45pm and were able to score some rush tickets!! $39 for three seats together in Row R of the orchestra. To me these seats were essentially perfect as you didn't miss anything except for a few of the Dreamland/Bangkok dancers doing their thing. 

We were unaware of the understudy schedule for the role of Kim so we didn't get to see Eva performance. However, Lianah Sta. Ana was fantastic. Powerful voice and excellent acting.  Personally the relationship between her and Chris needs some work but with this being one of her first performances in the role she was great! 

As mentioned previously Jon Jon Briones is astounding.  I still can't get his American Dream number out of my head. Based off what I've seen this season he's my top choice for the Tony (Admittedly haven't seen Dear Evan Hansen yet). At the very least a nomination is warranted. 

This season I've seen Cats, Falsettos and Miss Saigon for the Best Revival category. Thus far Saigon would have my vote. The helicopter sequence was everything I could have hoped for. I will admit though that I had never seen or listened to any recording of Miss Saigon before seeing it on Broadway so that might influence my reaction towards the show.  

Updated On: 3/10/17 at 08:48 AM

[LimelightMike]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 10:00am

This past week, when did the alternate go on?

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 10:11am

LimelightMike said: "This past week, when did the alternate go on?

So far, the alternate has performed the Saturday matinee 3/4 and Tuesday evening 3/7.

 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 11:21am

Dave28282 said: "Aside from the fact that the core of her character and role is not at all about that, I think it is kind of weird and far-fetched to call prostitution a stereotype of Asians. So far the only people who like to make that comparison are the stereotype callers and so they are basically the only ones creating this comparison and keeping it alive."

I strained my little Asian eyes while rolling them at you.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/asian-woman-fetishes-hurtful/

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/art/sad-asian-girls-collective/

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 12:13pm

I think that "objectification" is nothing more than the result of the fact that often Asian women look beautiful.

It happens to every gender and race. Now we're at it, I am starting to get pissed off that men are terribly objectified in films nowadays. Even in films such as "La la land", the female lead is a beautifully well written female role (just like Kim in Miss Saigon is), while Sebastian is basically a simple version of the Beast in BATB, asshole at first, and then he magically turns into this modest, submissive, sweet and goofy but of course hot bodied character that is sexy to most women. But also in commercials, facebook posts, everywhere I see pictures of man's asses, torso's, with people in the comments drooling and making nasty comments. Yesterday I saw a picture zoomed in on David Beckham's ass, and you wouldn't believe the objectification women exposed in the comments. If anything, nowadays men are objectified.

I happen to be a young attractive man, so I feel immediately touched by this. But at the same time maybe I need to get over it, because I can't change anything about it. I know there is more to me than that, so the only thing I can do is to show that. People "telling me that I'm nothing more than that" is the last thing I need.

 

Updated On: 3/10/17 at 12:13 PM

[MinnieFay]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 12:25pm

Dave28282 said:

I happen to be a young attractive man, so I feel immediately touched by this. But at the same time maybe I need to get over it, because I can't change anything about it. I know there is more to me than that, so the only thing I can do is to show that.


Yeah ---- I'm sure that your mom tells you that every morning!   

 

"

 

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 12:55pm

Dave28282 said: "I think that "objectification" is nothing more than the result of the fact that often Asian women look beautiful.

It happens to every gender and race. Now we're at it, I am starting to get pissed off that men are terribly objectified in films nowadays. Even in films such as "La la land", the female lead is a beautifully well written female role (just like Kim in Miss Saigon is), while Sebastian is basically a simple version of the Beast in BATB, asshole at first, and then he magically turns into this modest, submissive, sweet and goofy but of course hot bodied character that is sexy to most women. But also in commercials, facebook posts, everywhere I see pictures of man's asses, torso's, with people in the comments drooling and making nasty comments. Yesterday I saw a picture zoomed in on David Beckham's ass, and you wouldn't believe the objectification women exposed in the comments. If anything, nowadays men are objectified.

I happen to be a young attractive man, so I feel immediately touched by this. But at the same time maybe I need to get over it, because I can't change anything about it. I know there is more to me than that, so the only thing I can do is to show that. People "telling me that I'm nothing more than that" is the last thing I need.

 

 

"

I totally disagree with you. Objectification is so so much more than fulfilling your carnal desire. It is inherently the lack of respect for another person based on a self-centered worldview. It is also culturally and socially constructed through stereotypification and all sorts of supremacies. No one is racist until he or she or they are taught to be racist. Objectification is also a learned prejudice.

[theatregoer3]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 1:07pm

Dave28282 said: "I think that "objectification" is nothing more than the result of the fact that often Asian women look beautiful.

It happens to every gender and race. Now we're at it, I am starting to get pissed off that men are terribly objectified in films nowadays. Even in films such as "La la land", the female lead is a beautifully well written female role (just like Kim in Miss Saigon is), while Sebastian is basically a simple version of the Beast in BATB, asshole at first, and then he magically turns into this modest, submissive, sweet and goofy but of course hot bodied character that is sexy to most women. But also in commercials, facebook posts, everywhere I see pictures of man's asses, torso's, with people in the comments drooling and making nasty comments. Yesterday I saw a picture zoomed in on David Beckham's ass, and you wouldn't believe the objectification women exposed in the comments. If anything, nowadays men are objectified.

I happen to be a young attractive man, so I feel immediately touched by this. But at the same time maybe I need to get over it, because I can't change anything about it. I know there is more to me than that, so the only thing I can do is to show that. People "telling me that I'm nothing more than that" is the last thing I need."

 

This post is rather sickening from start to finish. Especially the self-flattery at the end there. 

"Young attractive" white man talks to minorities about how tough life has been on him for being "Young attractive", white and male.

I think there's a significant lack of understanding as to what it means to be a minority. Culturally, racially, sexually, and in terms of gender.

 

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 2:00pm

I'll admit that Miss Saigon isn't exactly the subtlest of musicals, but I guess I don't see the musical glorifying the objectification/fetishizing of Asian women. In fact, it seems the opposite to me. 

The women are introduced by singing about how much they want to be Miss Saigon and how they can't wait to show the soldiers a good time, which can make you cringe, but all this is instantly undercut with The Movie In My Mind, which lets us know that this is all an act and they are doing this out of necessity to stay alive and possible find a way out of the dire situation they have found themselves in. The women are being pimped out, but  they do not enjoy the work- anything but. It seems an accurate picture of another horror of wartime to me. I don't think the musical is trying to have us find the women sexy, but rather feel sympathy/empathy for their horrible predicament. 

I'm genuinely not trying to be insensitive; I guess I don't see the problem with the musical shining a light on how women are so often turned into objects to be sold/bartered with in wartime (I know it happens out of wartime too, but it seemed especially dire during the fall of Saigon) and the tragedies that can ensue when this happens. 

Lizzie, What are your thoughts about Madama Butterfly? 

[theatregoer3]

Posted: 3/10/17 at 2:41pm

WhizzerMarvin said: "I'll admit that Miss Saigon isn't exactly the subtlest of musicals, but I guess I don't see the musical glorifying the objectification/fetishizing of Asian women. In fact, it seems the opposite to me. 

The women are introduced by singing about how much they want to be Miss Saigon and how they can't wait to show the soldiers a good time, which can make you cringe, but all this is instantly undercut with The Movie In My Mind, which lets us know that this is all an act and they are doing this out of necessity to stay alive and possible find a way out of the dire situation they have found themselves in. The women are being pimped out, but  they do not enjoy the work- anything but. It seems an accurate picture of another horror of wartime to me. I don't think the musical is trying to have us find the women sexy, but rather feel sympathy/empathy for their horrible predicament. 

I'm genuinely not trying to be insensitive; I guess I don't see the problem with the musical shining a light on how women are so often turned into objects to be sold/bartered with in wartime (I know it happens out of wartime too, but it seemed especially dire during the fall of Saigon) and the tragedies that can ensue when this happens. 

Lizzie, What are your thoughts about Madama Butterfly? 

 

"

I agree with this 100%. I was also wondering if this had to do with attitudes towards Madame Butterfly. Of which I know very little.