Musical masterpieces
Musical masterpieces
#1Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 6:37pmHey everyone! A friend and I were discussing this yesterday and now I was wondering, what musicals do you consider to be masterpieces? I'd have to say that Ragtime is a near, if not perfect musical.
#2Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 6:41pmRagtime is a great but IMHO flawed musical. While parts may seem old fashioned now, I think Show Boat pretty much meets the description. The King and I out of all of R&H's brilliant musicals does for me as well. And Guys and Dolls.
#2Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 6:41pmRagtime for sure. I would also include Sweeney Todd, Gypsy, and Into the Woods.
"There’s nothing quite like the power and the passion of Broadway music. "
#3Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 6:53pmFollies is what I consider to be the perfect musical. The score is breathtaking, the book is brilliant, and Dorothy Collins was a revelation as Sally. When she sings "Losing My Mind" I literally cry.
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#4Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 6:54pm
Let's not be cavalier with the use of the word "masterpiece."
Shakespeare wrote masterpieces. Mozart wrote masterpieces. Rembrandt painted masterpieces.
Musicals? I don't know if even the greatest among them merits that term, but if any do, I guess they would be Show Boat, Oklahoma!, and My Fair Lady.
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#6Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 8:18pm
Gypsy
1776
Sweeney Todd
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#7Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 8:21pmI consider Follies to be a perfect musical. Ragtime also comes close for me.
metropolis10111
Broadway Star Joined: 7/28/06
#8Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 8:23pm
I'm with After Eight on this one. VERY VERY VERY few shows could reach that standard. I'm sure this thread will turn into an I-Love-Sondheim masturbation thread with fanboys saying that each and every show he did is the be all end all of music. A MUSICAL masterpiece needs to transcend a single stars performance or one production of a show. The SHOW needs to transcend cheep sets, and lack luster direction and a less then stellar cast to still be able to work. It's about the libretto and music.
1) Showboat. Hands down a masterpiece that has lasted almost 100 years and is only getting richer with time
2) Sweeney Todd- a show that can be done on a shoestring and still work it's power and might.
3) My Fair Lady- The balance of libretto and music has never been more perfect
Others-
Oklahoma! (While not a favorite of mine I can see where it is a masterpiece )
The Fantastics - Yes I would put this on the list as a masterpiece
West Side Story
1776
I'm thinking of Hello Dolly! as well
(While the Follies fans will say that it is ..we all know it's not ...It's a cult masterpiece if there ever was one, much like Rocky Horror and Carrie. )
Updated On: 6/2/13 at 08:23 PM
Broadway Star Joined: 12/31/69
KathyNYC2
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/2/10
#10Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 8:39pm
Everyone mentioned most of my main choices already..
Ragtime, She Loves Me, 1776, South Pacific...maybe Music Man.
Gypsy is close.
#11Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 8:45pmThe Sound of Music, for sure. (Though I may or may not be disregarding 'Ordinary Couple'...)
#12Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 9:27pm
Gypsy
West Side Story
A Little Night Music
Sweeney Todd
1776
The Music Man
The Light In the Piazza
A Chorus Line
Oklahoma!
Show Boat
Guys and Dolls
Kiss Me, Kate
Some flaws, but awful close ...
Ragtime
Grey Gardens
South Pacific
Carousel
Hello, Dolly!
The Drowsy Chaperone
Rent
Chicago
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
zamedy
Broadway Star Joined: 6/27/07
#15Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 9:50pm
I agree about not using "masterpiece" to describe many...
but I will agree with those here who list
SHOW BOAT
Nothing really compares in terms of what I think of as a "masterpiece".
I would also include the opera of PORGY AND BESS (if that counts).
THE KING AND I ... nearly
Other close-to-masterpieces:
SOUTH PACIFIC
A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC
THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA
And for the controversial choice:
THE SCOTTSBORO BOYS ..... The first time I saw it, I said it was a masterpiece and I haven't changed my mind. Though, I think that Stroman's staging is included in the "masterpiece" status, and I cannot imagine seeing it with someone else's staging...
#16Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 9:58pm
A few no-one has mentioned that I think qualify:
CAROUSEL
BRIGADOON
FINIAN'S RAINBOW
THE THREEPENNY OPERA
CANDIDE
FIDDLER ON THE ROOF
PACIFIC OVERTURES
SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE
BILLY ELLIOTT
A masterpiece does NOT have to be a perfect work of art for me, just one that will stand the test of time as great theater literature.
#17Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 10:17pmAfter Eight is absolutely correct... Many of those mentioned here still fall short of "masterpiece" for me, and I'm not entirely certain I'm ever fully comfortable using that word at all. MY FAIR LADY leapt to mind immediately, WEST SIDE STORY followed. That both followed works by prior acknowledged masters (Shaw and Shakespeare) perhaps is why I feel most comfortable elevating them. Or maybe that's just me finding a pretentious excuse to theorize.
Words don't deserve that kind of malarkey. They're innocent, neutral, precise, standing for this, describing that, meaning the other, so if you look after them you can build bridges across incomprehension and chaos. But when they get their corners knocked off, they're no good anymore…I don't think writers are sacred, but words are. They deserve respect. If you get the right ones in the right order, you can nudge the world a little.
#18Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 10:49pmSweeney Todd is the only musical I know that I'd describe as a masterpiece. Almost every line, every note, every lyric is perfect. It works with 2 synths or an 80-piece orchestra, with people who are strong singers or people who can barely sing. It hasn't aged a day. It's the only musical that is genuinely thrilling, it appeals to everyone.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#19Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 11:11pm
Best12's list. Except perhaps remove 1776 and Rent and move Carousel and South Pacific from "awful close" to the top list and add She Loves Me to "awful close." I'll bet he agrees that both lists are impossible to be definitive or without consideration to how one feels at the moment. And maybe My Fair Lady should be in there somewhere. Maybe.
Updated On: 6/2/13 at 11:11 PM
#20Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/2/13 at 11:14pm
Sweeney Todd
Follies
The Light In The Piazza
Carousel
Ragtime
My Fair Lady
A Chorus Line
"I saw Pavarotti play Rodolfo on stage and with his girth I thought he was about to eat the whole table at the Cafe Momus." - Dollypop
mjroberts972
Understudy Joined: 6/13/11
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#22Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:01am
"Sweeney Todd...It's the only musical that is genuinely thrilling, it appeals to everyone."
No it doesn't, not by a long shot. I know plenty of people who can't stand it, and I positively loathe it.
#23Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/3/13 at 2:00am
Whether you personally "loathe" the show is not what is being discussed. Many music and theatre critics cite SWEENEY TODD as Sondheim's masterpiece..his PORGY AND BESS.
However you are correct to note that it is not universally adored. In the original run a feature story about Angela Lansbury noted that getting people into the thetare to see this show was a huge challenge. While many did end up loving it, others were put ff by the violence, the jolting factory whistle and the broad performances. Many people left at intermission. The awards, the critical acclaim and snobbish attitude that anyone who didn't like the show was not culturally connected.
For me it was a genuinely thrilling show, but one that does not appeal to everyone. Even so, I believe it has earned it's place on the list of modern musical masterpieces. Along with SHOW BOAT, PORGY AND BESS, OKLAHOMA!, GUYS AND DOLLS, MY FAIR LADY, WEST SIDE STORY, and GYPSY. Each of these shows has flaws, but they stand up beautifully to repeated viewings and that is a crucial criteria for a "masterpiece."
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#24Musical masterpieces
Posted: 6/3/13 at 2:35am
Showboat- HANDS DOWN, not only because it is the first of the "modern musical" but because it is bold, groundbreaking, and the book/score alone can be read/listened to like a book/symphony
Cabaret- I think any show that can be interpreted so differently and create such diverse emotions with a single concept justifies itself as a masterpiece. Selected songs alone from Cabaret could be masterpieces, but what really solidifies it are the complexities of the characters. It's a musical whose storyline is about events caused by characters, rather than characters reacting to events. Every scene, line, song, character is interesting.
A Chorus Line- Again; groundbreaking, uncharted, thrilling, and a stand alone concept. Not to mention it is the masterpiece of the great Michael Bennett whose choreography will ALWAYS be attributed to this show. Elements from this show are so stylized and specific you can see a gold hat and automatically attribute it to A Chorus Line.
Carousel- I don't care what anyone says, this IS the best R&H. It's their most groundbreaking (sensing a theme) emotional, mature, realistic (even with the whole Star-Keeper randomness), blunt, and creative work. NOTHING compares to the score in this show.
Sondheim is good but his shows only last to the end of first act. They are all separate entities. Is he the greatest composer of contemporary theatre, yes. Do his SHOWS (not the songs) create a complete thought or clear concept, that's where it gets muddy. Sweeney and A Little Night Music are probably the closest to establishing a full narrative, but there is something uncomfortable about them that doesn't lend themselves to being a Masterpiece.
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