NBC's SMASH, Season 2 -- Discussion- Page 40

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 8:55am

For some reason, I liked last night's episode. It was the only time I've been able to tolerate Katherine McPhee. Jeremy Jordan is worse than Ellis (whom I happened to liked). Karen giving up the lead in Bombshell was a huge stretch.

I remember reading that Montego Glover was supposed to have a role in Smash. Did this ever happen?

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:02am

Karen leaving Bombshell was preposterous, of course.

The real problem with the show is that Derek, Julia and Jimmy are all triple threats: uninteresting, annoying and (consequently) unlikable.

[Wynbish]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:08am

Derek's one of my favorite characters, but much of that is due to Jack Davenport. I would most likely not feel the same if someone else was in the role.

[PlainMushroomWit']

Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:31am

Somehow I now find Derek to be the most likeable character on the show, but I laugh every time they mention "Derek's choreography." Have we ever seen him ever discuss choreography? Does he have assistants who do all the work? Is he one of those non-dancing choreographer geniuses like Michael Douglas in the oh-so wonderful CHORUS LINE movie?

I do wonder though, if this was the real world - yes I know that STAR WARS may be LESS fantastical than the world SMASH exists in - I would assume that at the least, they would be tweaking the dance numbers. And who knows, maybe there's still new songs to be added, now that there's gonna be scenes with her mom. Would there be a co-choreographer credit? Are there situations where the choreographer exits 2/3 of the way through but they still use all his stuff?

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:41am

henrikegerman - Playing devil's advocate. Tom has always wanted Ivy for "Marilyn" and it was well known. Once Ivy was available, maybe Karen saw the "handwriting" on the wall and figured she would quit instead of being replaced. Karen also knows she has another show that wants her with supposedly a great director (Derek). I am not saying I would do that in the same position but could slightly understand somebody doing the same thing.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:45am

Derek has an assistant (Joshua Bergasse), who also does the show's choreography. Derek has spoken or referred to him in several episodes.

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:46am

PlainMushroomWit- There have been scenes with Derek making corrections (Karen) on dance numbers but not discussing choreography to the best of my recollection. SMASH has focused more on the book/music (Tom & Julia) of "Bombshell" than the choreography.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:47am

ok, Yankee, you convinced me.

[beensince1987]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:06am

Wasn't it Imperial stage door that supposed to be Broadway stage door?
Also on opening night the shows start very early, but after Liaisons opening night, very few people on broadway?

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:13am

Well last night was one of the more preposterous Smash episodes of the whole series. So little made sense that it made sense to make nothing make sense and therefore provide a backdrop of senselessness that was supposed to help us make sense of it all.

The timelines and pacing of our three musicals were all at different speeds. Liaisons had just given a rehearsal preview for the press and then all of a sudden they were going to opening night? Where was the rest of rehearsal? What about previews? Supposedly 2 months had passed for the cast of Liaisons, yet the Bombshell and Hit List casts hadn't made the 2 month jump with them!

Everything we have learned about Liaisons over this season leads to a massive list of inconsistencies and confusions.

-We first heard about Liaisons when Tom gave Ivy an out of print cast recording the show. He also mentioned that Madeline Kahn won a Tony for Featured Actress in a Musical for the show. This sounds more like a flop from the 70s that would be suited for Encores rather than something fit for revival on Broadway. Also with the mention of Kahn we are led to believe this is a comedy.

-Hayes is stunt cast as the lead and Hilty is upset because this in fact a small, serious chamber musical. It has the potential to be moving and touching if given the chance and Hayes is sure to ruin it with all his clowning. Wait, this is the same serious chamber musical Kahn won a Tony for?

-If it is super serious why would A) the producers hire Hayes and B) Hayes want to do the show in the first place? I mean CZJ didn't want to come to Broadway in revival of Tovarich or Wildcat! I know Hayes is a bit off, but this is career suicide (and last night he said to Ivy, "I guess this isn't going to revive my career?").

-Hayes has a breakthrough though and agrees to take criticism of his performance. Presumably we are going to see this show because a great little serious chamber musical it could have been. But now it's just boring so Ivy decides (sometime in previews? the day before opening night?) to just have fun with it!

-This small chamber musical is playing The Broadway.

-Now we get a crazy big production number! Would this big number ever be written for this small chamber musical? Now we do feel like this could have been in a flop show that Kahn walked off with, but this contradicts the last few weeks of Hilty fighting to make Liaisons the brilliant show she knows it could be.

Hit List is being produced by Manhattan Theater Workshop which I guess is like a combination of MTC and Roundabout? Martin likes the show, but feels it would be better suited for their underground space (The first thing said on this ep that actually does make sense!). Hit List reminds me, in tone, of Ordinary Days, which played Roundabout's black box theater a few years ago. It would be a perfect fit. Of course Derek sees it in a big house and Jeremy is such a brat that he's not going to take any advice/criticism and he's NOT going to do rewrites!! Manic depressives never do rewrites anyway, so this also makes sense.

The presentation is so good though that Martin basically says get out of the underground and take this to Studio 54!! Derek's vision of the show is truly awful, making me doubt if he ever was a good director. The song was bad too. We can't think Jeremy is some Wunderkind if all his songs suck!

This left us with Bombshell to try to ground the episode, but somehow it managed to have the looniest plot of all! Derek signs off on letting them use his choreography? Eileen is back in charge? And the most unrealistic thing of the entire series- Karen quits Bombshell, negating everything she did for the duration of the first season, to take a potential job in a non-profit underground show. It was the first time I actually felt bad for McPhee. She's not the greatest actress, but how is she supposed to play Karen when the writing sends her in such illogical directions.

[elphaba.scares.me]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:18am

Agreed Phyllis...show is much more stable, interesting, and dramatic at last. Not every bit of it is a slam-dunk, but I feel like I'm getting to know the characters without adultery, Chinese adoptions or press secretary parties on yachts...

Yay Ivy. Yay Smash.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:26am

AV Club's review is spot-on, I think: http://www.avclub.com/articles/musical-chairs,93730/

[DEClarke]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:26am

I had fun with last night's SMASH. It's gotten more noticeably Soap Opera as the series progresses, but the drama is interesting.

I like the HIT LIST music too.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:31am

Ah Whizzer, sounds like you should have been writing for the show!! Funny thing is, I watched the same episode, and all the obvious and troublesome issues you pointed out didn't even occur to me (with the exception of Liaisons ready to open).

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:32am

Shukert's recap is up: On the Deck of the Titanic.

"Does it have something to do with the doomed move to cursed Saturdays that made this episode feel like that boyfriend you know you’re going to break up with, only you have to get through his grandmother’s funeral first?"

http://www.vulture.com/2013/03/smash-recap-season-2-musical-chairs.html

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:14am

Loved this from the AV Club:

"But the moment when Jimmy comes through and composes a new song about reinvention feels like the closing scene of every Fat Albert episode, where the gang learns a lesson about peer pressure and then sings a song about peer pressure."

[Tom1071]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:19am

Saturday may not be the certain death of Smash that we think it is. It might actually find an audience being on a night when there is typically nothing else on. Look what happened with Grimm. No one was watching the first season and NBC moved it to Friday night (which isn't a great night for TV) and it found an audience and is currently in its third season.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:23am

I think we should put on a show in the barn to raise money for it.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:24am

Hit List is being produced by Manhattan Theater Workshop which I guess is like a combination of MTC and Roundabout? Martin likes the show, but feels it would be better suited for their underground space (The first thing said on this ep that actually does make sense!). Hit List reminds me, in tone, of Ordinary Days, which played Roundabout's black box theater a few years ago. It would be a perfect fit. ... The presentation is so good though that Martin basically says get out of the underground and take this to Studio 54!!

Manhattan Theatre Workshop is based on New York Theatre Workshop, where RENT first premiered (hence the poster of RENT behind Jesse L. Martin in the scene). I thought that was pretty obvious. They're not moving it from an 80-seat basement to a Broadway theater, they're just moving it upstairs into a 200ish-seat off-Broadway space. It's really not that big a leap. Of all the leaps of logic in this episode, that was not one I had a problem with.

Updated On: 3/20/13 at 11:24 AM

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:29am

"Saturday may not be the certain death of Smash that we think it is. It might actually find an audience being on a night when there is typically nothing else on. Look what happened with Grimm. No one was watching the first season and NBC moved it to Friday night (which isn't a great night for TV) and it found an audience and is currently in its third season."

My question would be that while it's potentially picking up new viewers on Saturday how many of the old ones won't follow it there. I admit that I haven't kept up with my viewing this season with the move to the Tuesday time slot nearly as faithfully as I did last season, and suspect that with the move to Saturday the odds of me ever watching it as it airs are reduced even more.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:32am

^I almost forgot it was on last night!

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:32am

Good Lord, people are still reaching for a third season?? Folks, its OVER, okay? Not because its moving to Saturdays but because the show is truly not interesting now. Even I'm losing interest, and my love of its flamboyant dorkiness is quite strong.


The show is just boring now with soggy stakes that have become so interchangeable they have become meaningless. No new viewer in their right mind would get hooked into this show. Would you?

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:33am

Yero, I got the NYTW and Rent connection to "Manhattan Theatre Workshop," but (spoiler?) Hit List is moving to Broadway, so when Martin said they were moving it to their larger space I assumed he meant their Broadway space. Plus, doesn't NYTW only have the one performance space? Roundabout calls their black box space Roundabout Underground and MTC has that similar small space where Murder Ballad played. I think it's safe to say that "Manhattan Theatre Workshop" is a combination of MTC, Roundabout and NYTW.

Also Martin was very concerned about his elderly subscriber base connecting with the material- a legit concern for MTC and Roundabout, but not really for NYTW.

I just found it odd that after one song Martin did a 180 and moved it to a larger space.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:33am

THE MOVE TO SATURDAY HASN'T HAPPENED YET????

I'm...angry with myself. Now, I have to avoid Shukert till I see this ep. Why did I have to watch that pissy queen Spacey haul out that positively Sugarbakean drawl on House of Cards last night???

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/20/13 at 11:37am

The ratings are out. Smash got a 0.8 rating share with 2.65 million viewers.

This should not be confused with SPLASH'S ratings of a 2.6 rating share and 8.8 million viewers.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/03/20/tv-ratings-tuesday-splash-premiere-strong-ncis-new-girl-smash-down-golden-boy-up/174026/