Pulitzer 2014- Page 2

[After Eight]

Posted: 3/23/14 at 8:08am

Undercoveractor,

Please pay attention to what someone writes. I did not write MY beloved theatre, but OUR, since of course it is beloved by all of us who love the theatre. It certainly is by me; otherwise, a) I would not continue going, considering some of the horrors that I have to face, such as the aforementioned trio from hell, and b) I would not feel the pain I do to see the harm infllcted upon it by horrors like the aforementioned trio from hell. When I think of how wonderful shows like Hello, Dolly! and Mary, Mary have been displaced by outrageous and/or sickening affronts, I assure you the pain is acute, and the sorrow untold.





Updated On: 3/23/14 at 08:08 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 3/23/14 at 11:13am

Your sorrow is not untold. You don't shut up about it.

[undercoveractor]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 12:31am

Well so much for that. I was quite serious when I said that I wasn't trying to argue with you, but your response indicates to me that you want one.
Semantics aside, you didn't address my question. Regardless of whether you said 'our' or 'my', my question/point remains the same. Why do you continue to inflict these alleged horrors on yourself season after season? I love HELLO, DOLLY! as much as anybody, but I certainly do not want to see that show reproduced and/or copied ad nauseum. I'm sure that there were people in 1964 who bitched about that show being a horror when compared to the brilliance of the Princess Theatre shows of Jerome Kern. Thank goodness that the art form continued to evolve, otherwise Jerry Herman may not ever have written DOLLY.

[undercoveractor]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 12:46am

One other point since you said please when asking me to pay attention...
Given that it is OUR Beloved theatre, perhaps you could find a place in your heart to respect that other theatre lovers loved FUN HOME, MR. BURNS, and THE FLICK. Since 'our' is collective, maybe those of us who love the classics AND are excited by the experimental, the risky, and the new can be allowed to have our opinions without essentially being told that we don't know what we are talking about.

[After Eight]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 8:32am

You certainly are naughty (or obtuse), making me belabor a point I've already made crystal clear to you. (And by the way, if you don't wish to start an argument then don't patronize-- "fascinated " by me, indeed, as if you were speaking about some rare specimen in a zoo. You say you don't understand? Well, what you don't seem to understand is that you don't have to understand. Nor do I owe you any explanations.) But (sigh), softie that I am, I'll sum it up for you YET AGAIN. I go to the theatre for the same reason all of us go. Because the theatre is beloved. By me, by all of us. No matter how it is desecrated by foul inflictions like those cited above.

Everyone has the right to like or dislike whatever they please and to state as much. People here have exercised that right vociferously and repeatedly. I certainly have not stopped them, nor would I ever presume to try. But I have the same right as they. I call horrors horrors, and I won't call them anything else. As for telling people they don't know what they're talking about, uh... you've got it backwards. I'M the one on the receiving end of that --- and worse.

As for your comments regarding Jerome Kern and Jerry Herman, the distance between their music is negligible, whereas the distance between Hello, Dolly! and the wretched fare discussed in this thread is that between the heavens above and the depths of hell.

You revel in the likes of Fun Home, Mr. Burns and The Flick? Revel, then. But don't think that others aren't weeping over what has been perpetrated upon our beloved theatre.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 9:18am

You revel in the likes of Fun Home, Mr. Burns and The Flick? Revel, then. But don't think that others aren't weeping over what has been perpetrated upon our beloved theatre.

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 9:43am

Mothers and Sons, anyone?

[tazber]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 10:55am

Everyone has the right to like or dislike whatever they please and to state as much

It's so funny that you of all people say this.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 11:05am

AAAANNND, a new high mark for insufferability. Brava!

Updated On: 3/24/14 at 11:05 AM

[tazber]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 1:56pm

^^^^

At least until its next post.

[Kad]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 2:29pm

He really is like Maleficient. He's easily slighted, has a superiority complex, and is followed by a raven familiar.

[oasisjeff]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 2:47pm

"Everyone has the right to like or dislike whatever they please and to state as much. People here have exercised that right vociferously and repeatedly."

I've said it before, but I think After Eight's biggest problem is that he never writes that he is stating his personal opinion, but rather that he has been able to see the core of what is being presented, unlike the rest of us.

I learned long ago that the more you start sentences with "I think that..." online, the more you're bulletproof, since no one can challenge what you think is incorrect. After Eight avoid the nuance of stating it as opinion, presenting it as fact, which is what seems to set people off.

His seemingly awful disposition for anything written after 1953 doesn't help, either.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 2:55pm

You damn kids....get off my lawn!!

[jnb9872]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 3:33pm

Jeff, you've got it.

A8's opinions are perfectly valid, no matter how many people disagree with them (or agree, for that matter, as I do find A8's perspective worth hearing much of the time. Certainly any poster with a command of grammar and vocabulary is worth hearing out.)

The arrogance of presuming authoritative statements on behalf of the general public, assuming an entire audience is uniform in its derision (or enchantment), the sweeping declarative statements and the ever-popular victim card is tiresome and overwrought. The content of what A8 believes is rarely troublesome to me. The air of persecution and rhetoric of presumed superiority in the writing is what rankles most. (Those who are kneejerk reactionaries are troublesome in their own right, and A8 is correct to scorn them when they scorn him.)

As for this thread, I had forgotten the Pulitzer's stated intent to focus on American themes, so I presume HERE LIES LOVE wouldn't be much in the running, but RUINED did win not too long ago and I now recall that stirring up a little tempest about what "American themes" meant. Clearly, though, we aren't having much difficulty coming up with interesting selections this year and yet there isn't a clear frontrunner. I will be curious to hear the announcement when it's made!

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 3:33pm

People still talk to it? Why?

[inception]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 8:37pm

From the Pulitzer sites online entry form for the drama category:

T E R M S O F T H E A W A R D
Columbia University, on the recommendation of The Pulitzer Prize Board,
annually awards a Pulitzer Prize in drama of $10,000" for a distinguished play by
an American author, preferably original in its source and dealing with American
life."

So adaptations like Fun Home or Natasha & Pierre probably are not up for consideration; and Natasha & Pierre has another strike against it by not being about American life.

If the original graphic novel wasn't considered for a Pulitzer, why would they look at the adaptation? I didn't read the book until after I saw the play, and I was struck by how much was left out in order to streamline the story for the stage. If it was being considered I think something that might be looked at would be how many of the book's nuances were left out. Even before reading the book I felt that the play didn't feel complete - like it was still a bit in progress.

I have been telling lots of people about this work. Outside of the New York theatre world the impulse to musicalize everything isn't as strong, and it interesting how many womyn who are big fans of Bechdel are a bit outraged that this would be turned into a musical. It is like they view it as some sort of attack against them by gay men, and only calm down when I explain that the creators involved are all womyn.

[winston89]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 10:14pm

For what it's worth, the Pulitzer does tend to focus on American writers and American themes for both their drama and fiction categories. However, there have been exceptions to the rule when it comes to both. For example, Ruined, although written by an American playwright, wasn't set in America. And, the novel The Good Earth, was written by Pearl S. Buck who, although American had the story take place in China. Yet, that still won the Pulitzer for fiction as well. So, there are exceptions to the rules sometimes.

[dreaming]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 10:24pm

inception-where are the offended fans of the book Fun Home? (Bechdel herself LOVES the musical-if you read her posts about it on FB or Twitter-she's a HUGE supporter of it.)

The musical is a gorgeous rendering of the book-they go together.

And musicals that are adaptations have indeed won before: RENT=La Boheme; South Pacific=Tales of the South Pacific.

As a musical Fun Home is very important in its subject matter-the representation of lesbians as a group and of one with a unique, special identity is lacking in the performing arts in general. This show opens a lot of doors for the community. I highly doubt fans of the book would be offended by its consideration for a Pulitzer-I'd think they'd be thrilled.

(BTW-I LOVED both of Bechdel's books in the series and have read them both a few times now. I read them after I saw the lab. I loved them. I still loved them after I saw the show at the Public this year. They compliment one another.)

Updated On: 3/24/14 at 10:24 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 10:36pm

I hate the word as a pejorative, inception, but those womyn friends of yours sound like stupid conts.

[macnyc]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 10:53pm

I know this is going way back to the 1950s, but The Diary of Anne Frank won a Pulitzer for drama, and that breaks two "rules" right there: It takes place in Europe and was based on a book.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 11:07pm

But Anne Frank belongs to American now, with her can-do spunky optimistic outlook.

[oasisjeff]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 11:11pm

"I was struck by how much was left out in order to streamline the story for the stage. If it was being considered I think something that might be looked at would be how many of the book's nuances were left out. Even before reading the book I felt that the play didn't feel complete - like it was still a bit in progress."

Umm, yeah, this is the case with every book turned into anything else. Movies, plays, musicals... if you try and cram every nuance in, it sucks because it can't breather; if you leave stuff out, people complain.

I never read the novel (due to a bias against graphic novels), but the musical was perfection to me.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 11:13pm

Read ti is is so effing good.

[perfectlymarvelous]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 11:43pm

It's not a novel, it's a memoir, and it's stunning. Bechdel's illustrations really tell the story as much as the actual words do, if anything the fact that it's a graphic memoir adds to its effect rather than takes away from it.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/24/14 at 11:45pm

Some people get confused by the term "graphic memoir." I know at least one person I tried to get to read it who assumed that meant it contained graphic or explicit content... Sigh. But I don't understand how some people simply won't give a "comic" a chance, no matter how appealing they might find the writing and subject matter--but I guess it's still pretty common.