Should B’way Tours Avoid Florida? — Page 3

Blockhead24 said: "Bettyboy72 said: "maybe it would encourage them to move."

It's not that simple for a lot of us here"

I would echo this statement. My very liberal parents moved from Maryland to Florida fifteen years ago and now live in Jacksonville (whose voters by the way just flipped the mayoral seat from deep red to blue this past week). For the past couple years relatives from the Northeast have been asking them why don't just move away rather than stay in a state whose politics are increasingly repugnant.

It truly is not simple or easy for most people to just uproot their lives and move on a whim, especially after living somewhere for any amount of time. I think some assume it's as easy as selling the house, packing up the minivan and the U-haul and taking off on I-95 for a new life - like in a movie or on TV.

Speaking to my parents, they're of the opinion that however repulsive DeSantis, he won't be governor forever and their efforts are better spent at the local level working against his agenda and if more progressives flee the state, it only ensures less resistance to the government's draconian laws.

Updated On: 5/21/23 at 02:21 PM

Dylan Smith4 said: "Highland Guy said: "When I was 19, I swore an oath that I would, in part, "Support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Many years later, I continue to abide by that oath. This is a time in history for us to support and defend what we know is right. I will never abandon this country that I love. Never."

I'm glad you are willing to stay and fight this extremism, but I want to be in a country where I feel safe. Sadly, I don't feel safe in the United States right now. With the continued rise in violence, mass shootings, and draconian laws being enacted that strip away the rights of certain individuals, I cannot in good conscience remain in this country!"



I am reminded that in a few days, we will observe Memorial Day to honor and remember all those brave women and men who gave up their lives in defense of the United States. Your post makes me believe you value self above country. You most definitely have the right to leave for a place where you think you will be safe. Most of us will remain behind to do whatever we can to protect our rights and our fellow Americans.

Yes, you should leave. Right now.

Good luck.

Updated On: 5/21/23 at 03:37 PM

Dylan Smith4 said: "I cannot in good conscience remain in this country!"

I don't see how it would be an act of "good conscience" to abandon those who would remain. When people acquiesce to abhorrent behavior, the abhorrent behavior gains sovereignty. I hope you'll take some time to consider how leaving will further achieve the goals (and cement the sovereignty) of the circumstance(s) that prompt you to leave.

Because you feel like you might be stuck in FL for a bit ("it's not that easy!" to leave), why not look for ways to enact non-violent, positive results; things like voting, contacting your political representatives, etc. while you're still present to make a difference? At the very least, you'd be doing something positive while you're making your plans to depart.

Updated On: 5/22/23 at 09:22 AM

Dylan Smith4 said: "I need to do what's best to keep myself safe! [...] I (thankfully) do not live in Florida, but frankly, nowhere here is safe nowadays!"

Well, "nowhere" is slightly hyperbolic. On the other hand, Shangri-La does not exist, either. No matter where you go, there will always be someone, or some element that's threatening.

Hopefully, you don't have a personal story to share re: how you, or your loved ones have been physically harmed. Maybe you do, but if you don't, isn't that some measure of proof that people *can* remain safe in the US?

Sure, the US is not 100% safe for all, but where, or what is? While you're still here, I hope you'll look for opportunities to make even the smallest of differences. (i.e., making a small monetary contribution to a peaceful cause, emailing your political representative[s], contributing to a food bank, etc...) so that when you do find your greener pastures, you can say, "While I was there, I did what was within my means to try to make it better."

Updated On: 5/22/23 at 10:08 AM

John Adams said: "Well, "nowhere" is slightly hyperbolic. On the other hand, Shangri-La does not exist, either. No matter where you go, there will always be someone, or some element that's threatening.

Hopefully, you don't have a personal story to share re: how you, or your loved ones have been physically harmed. Maybe you do, but if you don't, isn't that some measure of proof that people *can* remain safe in the US?

Sure, the US is not 100% safe for all, but where, or what is? While you're still here, I hope you'll look for opportunities to make even the smallest of differences. (i.e., making a small monetary contribution to a peaceful cause, emailing your political representative[s], contributing to a food bank, etc...) so that when you do find your greener pastures, you can say, "While I was there, I did what was within my means to try to make it better.""

My personal story is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! I have lost all faith in America, and it won't be too long before the fundamental freedoms we have today will be stripped away! You need to understand that modern fascism is on the rise. Especially in Florida. As their governor is about to run for president, his platform would be to nationalize EVERYTHING he has done since he took office. I do not want ANY part of that if he becomes president! There is nothing I alone can do to make a difference besides voting. Anything else puts my life at risk!

Dylan Smith4 said: "My personal story is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! [...] There is nothing I alone can do to make a difference besides voting. Anything else puts my life at risk!"

Didn't ask for your personal story. Wished you well in hoping that you didn't have one to tell.

RE: "nothing I alone can do", blah, blah, blah... I call BS. If you think you're alone, that's on you. There's this new-fangled thing called, "the Internet". You should try using it. There, you'll find many organizations who are dedicated to protecting human rights; all of whom would be grateful for any form of support you could provide.

...and let's not forget that the negative effects of this bill are not limited to the LGBTQ+ community alone. This bill condones provider and/or insurer discrimination against ANY person or group on the basis of the provider/insurer's individual religious, moral, or ethical beliefs.

YOU CAN:

1. Provide food (via a food bank) for homeless or displaced persons (LBTQ+ included). You could further help by donating food and products made by companies who have publicly voiced their disdain for the FL bill, and others like it: The Sustainable Food Policy Alliance, Companies that have signed the Business Statement Opposing Anti-LGBTQ State Legislation
2. Provide support in any form to those who can and are working to combat bills/laws like the one in FL. If Roe v Wade can be overturned, so can this law.
3. Stop whining about what you can't do. Find something you CAN do. You named one of the most important things every US citizen can do - VOTE. It's just an out-and-out lie to say you can't make a difference. The reality is that you are making a choice to do nothing at all.

If you need to move somewhere else, I don't blame you. But while you're here, being terrified into doomscrolling stasis does nothing. For you or anyone else.

Thank. You. If my grandmother had not left Europe in 1936,she would've been killed in a concentration camp and I would not be typing on this board. I understand how this young person feels.

Updated On: 5/22/23 at 06:02 PM

I have previously said that I think staying and fighting is a noble undertaking (or something to that effect). I also think that for some/many and especially those in the cross hairs, moving feels better and safer and I certainly don't disparage that. Many folks here left "home" because they did not feel safe being themselves at the time. Many in the theatre (who are not "here" did also, for the same reason.

I do believe that the present threats manifesting most elaborately (and ridiculously) in Florida will eventually run their course. But I also believe that their foundation is a core of racist/white supremacist thinking that we imagined was receding when it was just hiding. It has come to the surface because of a perceived existential threat as people of color/people of "other" sexualities/women and the full range of the the other components of the mosaic that is this country are gaining control in a democracy. The bigots, at the same time, present an existential threat to the rest of us.

We are approaching a crossroads. It occurs to me that it is time to trot out the famous quote of the German Lutheran minister, Martin Niemöller, after the fall of Nazi Germany:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

As Queer Americans, my husband and I fight against hatred and discriminaton in whatever ways we can. We have made a donation to the NAACP in appreciation for their issuing a travel advisory against the State of Florida.

SonofRobbieJ said:

But it's past the time for the wider queer community to begin creating and funding networks that can get trans people safely out of Florida, including the families of trans children.

Unfortunately it may come down to just that. Hampshire College in Massachusetts just announced it would be opening up its classes to students from Saratoga's New College which has been the main target of DeSantis' attacks on education.

DeSantis is using a playbook developed by Orban in Hungary. When Florida gets tired of footing the bill for his insanity, which I agree it will eventually, then someone new will take up the lead in scapegoating minorities for political gain.

In the meantime, yes, we need to begin finding places for people running from these states because these creeps mean business and they're in it for the long haul.

And Broadway tours could do the right thing by cancelling in Florida right away.

Updated On: 5/23/23 at 11:08 PM

Wee Thomas2 said: "
You don't HAVE to do anything about it, but we can't let the conversation stop."

Speaking only for myself, I think the topic, as presented, is a non-starter. The answer is Yes. Now if someone (maybe you) started a thread called "How Do We Solve a Problem Like Florida?," there would be more to convo about.

I really need to point out the really concerning fear mongering around this bill. This bill absolutely does not give doctors the right to refuse life saving emergency medical care based on a person's identity or perceived identity. Trans and gay people are NOT at risk of death by lack of care in a medical emergency based on this bill. This bill is only covering what they call "conscience-based objections" which would be things like abortions and prescribing hormones or doing surgeries. It does not help anyone to make the Florida community fear for their lives in this way. Traveling gay and trans people are not in danger from this bill in Florida. None of this is to say we don't all still want to avoid Florida over this bill or any and all of the other reasons to avoid Florida but we really need to stop this fear mongering over a lie about this bill! Please read the actual bill! https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1580/BillText/Filed/HTML

You can fight this bill on the basis of what it actually is not on a lie that creates unnecessary fear.