Sondheim's weaker lyrics/rhymes — Page 2

Ray and tallguy, thanks for jumping in. I think there's plenty to like about that lyric, so I'll leave it there.

I will bring up one more questionable Sondheim lyric (the only other one I can think of!) from Sweeney Todd:

Meaning no offense it
Happens they resents it,
Ladies in their sensitivities, my lord.

At least when the Beadle is otherwise portrayed as using something like Received Pronunciation, it sticks out like a sore thumb to me when he uses a verbal agreement pattern that typifies a very different dialect of English.

Just for fun, I made a list of songs that After Eighty would love had they been written by one of his cadre of dead songwriters. As they're by Sondheim...at best they inspire disinterest bordering on disgust:

"Ah, But Underneath"
"Ah! Paris!"
"All for You"
"Anyone Can Whistle"
"Back in Business"
"Beautiful Girls"
"The Best Thing That Ever Has Happened"
"The Boy From..."
"Broadway Baby"
"By the Sea"
"Can That Boy Foxtrot!"
"Children Will Listen"
"Come Play Wiz Me"
"Comedy Tonight"
"Company"
"Echo Song"
"Ever After"
"Everybody Ought to Have a Maid"
"Everybody Says Don't"
"Free"
"Getting Married Today"
"Giants in the Sky"
"The Glamorous Life"
"Good Thing Going"
"Goodbye For Now"
"Growing Up"
"Have I Got a Girl for You"
"I Do Like You"
"I Never Do Anything Twice"
"I Remember Sky"
"I'm Calm"
"I'm Still Here"
"I've Got You to Lean On"
"Impossible"
"In Buddy's Eyes"
"Isn't He Something!"
"It Takes Two"
"Johanna"
"Like It Was"
"A Little Priest"
"Little White House"
"Live Alone and Like It"
"Losing My Mind"
"Love is in the Air"
"Love Will See Us Through"
"Lovely"
"Loving You"
"Maybe They're Magic"
"Me and My Town"
"The Miller's Son"
"No More"
"No One is Alone"
"Not a Day Goes By"
"Now You Know"
"Old Friends"
"On the Steps of the Palace"
"One More Kiss"
"Opening Doors"
"Our Time"
"A Parade in Town"
"Pretty Lady"
"Pretty Little Picture"
"Pretty Women"
"Putting It Together"
"Rain on the Roof "
"Remember?"
"Send in the Clowns"
"Side by Side by Side"
"So Many People"
"Soon"
"The Story of Lucy and Jessie"
"The Sun Won't Set"
"Take Me to the World"
"There Won't Be Trumpets"
"Too Many Mornings"
"Wait"
"A Weekend in the Country"
"What Would We Do Without You?"
"Who Could Be Blue?"
"Who's That Woman?"
"With So Little to Be Sure Of"
"You Could Drive a Person Crazy"
"You Must Meet My Wife"
"You're Gonna Love Tomorrow"
"Your Eyes Are Blue"

"Um, yes, they are. "

Uh, no they are not. "The ones who play by the rules." The "ones?" Now there's a nice phrase for you. So if a woman "plays by the rules," that makes her a fool? What a crock of bull. And if a woman picks up her child at school, or donates her time to support her child's education, that makes her a fool as well? Well, sorry, but no, no, and no. The misogynistic gall of it is astounding. How dare we be subjected to such insulting, sickening tripe!

Updated On: 12/26/13 at 09:39 PM

"So if a woman "plays by the rules," that makes her a fool? What a crock of bull. And if a woman picks up her child at school, or donates her time to support her child's education, that makes her a fool as well? Well, sorry, but no, no, and no. The misogynistic gall of it is astounding. How dare we be subjected to such insulting, sickening tripe!"

Eight, you do understand that it's the character putting forth those ideas, not Sondheim. He's giving her those lyrics so that we can understand who SHE is, not how IT should be.

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Artscallion,

So tell me then, the people who applaud this song as a "dead on" portrait of "a certain type" of woman, (a complete crock, by the way): whom are they applauding, Joanne or Sondheim?

Sondheim's probably my favourite lyricist, and Sweeney for me is one of the very best musicals ever written (it's superb musically AND lyrically), but even then there are a couple of rhymes in that piece which for me don't work so well because, while they work in American English, they don't in British English. And given the fact that some of the lyrics appear to be written with the latter in mind (Mrs Lovett's use of "wot", for instance) -- even if they're not always performed in that accent (notably with the original cast) -- I don't think they're successful.

One is the rhyming of "erased" with "waste" and "traced" in 'A Little Priest' -- in British English, the "s" in "erase" is pronounced like a z, like "erazed". So it doesn't rhyme with "waste" or "traced".

Another is the rhyming of "esplanade" with "blade" in "By the Sea". Generally, a cockney and the British in general are more say "esplanAAAAD" (rhymes with "card" and "façade" in southern English) than "esplanaid", as it is pronounced in the States, so it wouldn't rhyme with "blade".

Minor errors that are easy to forgive, of course, especially as Sondheim isn't British himself.

Updated On: 12/27/13 at 07:09 AM

"Assonance is getting the rhyme wrong." Rita

"How dare we be subjected to such insulting, sickening tripe!"

Now you know how we feel every time you post.

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I objected to this thread at the beginning, on principle, and stayed away from it during the holiday.

Now I see that they punishment for them what participated in it is that you all had to read After Eight's posts.

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Updated On: 12/28/13 at 10:21 AM

I love satay wings.

And I never miss an After Eight post, PJ. You're batty.

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I think they're applauding the performer that just sang the song.

What sticks out for me, is some of the times Sondheim uses multiple rhymes--I mean when he has three or more lines in a row rhyme with each other, for whatever reason sometimes that distracts me and seems a bit like he's just being too clever.