The 74th Annual Tony Awards (2021) - News & Discussion Thread- Page 5

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 10:54am

Wayman_Wong said: "I hope the Tony nominators don't overlookRyan Knowles in ''The Lightning Thief'' for Featured Actor in a Musical. His main character is Chiron, who's the wise mentor to Percy (Chris McCarrell), but he does 8 other roles(with 25 quick changes). Knowles also plays Poseidon, Medusa and Hades (as if he were portrayed by Paul Lynde). He's a riot.."

 

Normally I'd object to Lightning Thief getting a single nomination, but in this case, I'm actually inclined to agree with you. IMO, Knowles was the only cast member with any comedic capabilities. The rest of them screamed, flailed, and whined their way through the show in a sad, desperate attempt to be funny without any comedic ability, all under the direction of a talentless, tasteless hack. Knowles was the only one to overcome that and occasionally make me laugh. And in this weak year, I wouldn't mind seeing him get nominated. 

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 11:11am

With an atrocious year for the theatre industry, where everyone are underemployed, it is a industry that needs a little love and respect, especially right now. Nothing what happened this year are creatives’ And artistes’ fault, so it would be appalling to cancel this years awards and to have the Tony Awards next year.

Winning a Tony Award can be life changing, so why should the creatives And artistes be denied, non of this is there fault. This years awards are going to feel strange, with no presentation, performances and held virtually. We know this years awards are going to be thin and next years will also be, assuming theatre restarts. If the Tony Awards are held next year in the conventional way in Radio City and I hope that will be the case, you can present the Tony award to this years winner and also have performances from this year at next years awards, this would be sensible as I have pointed out next years awards are going to be also very thin and some shows from this year will be done,

But because the awards cannot be done in the normal way, this years awards will require a lot more imagination, with a great director, there is no reason why this cannot be quite exciting. But let’s not deny our creatives and artistes there shot.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 11:57am

Sutton Ross said: "SouthernCakes said: "RE: Sutton Ross i’m not disagreeing with anything you said, actually! I love his voice! But none of that means he deserves the highest honor in stage acting for “being a nice person.” He’s not a good actor. His reaction to her death was just laughably bad."

Him being nice was just a bonus for me when I talked to him after his performance in Company. He's a great actor who has had constant work, and a wonderful career so far. I think it was you that, months ago, you said you keep going to see him even though you think he's a bad actor?That makes no sense, so it must be something about him that intrigues you. Perhaps you are just jealous of his career?"

Of course you have to add a dig in at the end #petty

Not jealous at all! Like I said he’s got a great voice. And of course I’ve seen shows he’s been in because I wanted to see the shows! Next to Normal is perfection! He just isn’t a good actor. Hella good singer though! And he’s attractive! So I get why he works! But... yeah... he hasn’t turned out a Tony winning performance to me yet. And it’s def not Moulin Rouge. Go back and read the previews thread. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 12:11pm

I wasn't digging at you, it was a genuine question. You mentioned long ago you were a server around Times Square that occasionally goes to auditions. Many people are probably jealous they never or have not made it to Aaron's level. And no, I don't need to read any previews thread, he's a great actor in my book. 

First off, there are no sex offenders on Broadway. And, to mention such when it had nothing at all to do with the discussion is a bit much. And, yes, I know what you’re talking about, I used to work at NYCB. 

We all know what J was talking about. And considering what that person did and alllllllllllllll the national press coverage it received, no, it's not a "bit much". You seem to have a negative knee jerk reaction when you or another male is called out or "disrespected". It's very telling and pretty gross honestly. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 12:42pm

HeyMrMusic said: "Perhaps they will lump everyone into Featured Actor/Actress in a Musical like they did in 1985. I think Burstein and Warren would be our winners in this case."

They didn't lump them together...they eliminated the lead categories, because the pickings were so slim.

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 12:54pm

Well, Mary Beth Peil was nominated for Supporting actress in 1985, so unless you think of Anna as a featured role in The King and I it was pretty much lumped together

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 1:57pm

Jordan Catalano said: "The only thing I care about here is Paul Hilton winning a Tony."

Same.

I wonder how they will handle FREESTYLE LOVE SUPREME. I wouldn't be shocked to see it get in the musical category over THE LIGHTNING THIEF.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 2:30pm

imeldasturn said: "Well, Mary Beth Peil was nominated for Supporting actress in 1985, so unless you think of Anna as a featured role in The King and I it was pretty much lumped together "

Right, and Daniel Jenkins was nominated for the role of Huck in Big River, so yes, they did lump all the performers into featured categories.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 2:30pm

(Double post)

Updated On: 8/22/20 at 02:30 PM

[Damiensta]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 2:30pm

I don’t understand people on the board. Everyone complaining that what’s the point Bc Tony’s is about money. 
By doing ceremony this year they are making it about the Creatives and not just about making money. Most of shows that qualify were closed by March anyways. with everyone on Broadway unemployed I’m sure a celebration even if it’s virtual will be a nice distraction for those involved.
Anything that gets Adrianne Warren a Tony For Tina is fine by me. 
 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 2:35pm

imeldasturn said: "Well, Mary Beth Peil was nominated for Supporting actress in 1985, so unless you think of Anna as a featured role in The King and I it was pretty much lumped together"

Actually technically Mary Beth Peil would have been in the featured category regardless because she was below the title and back in 1985 they were still going strictly by how you were billed (above the title is lead, below the title is featured with no room for petitioning to other categories).  But the point still stands that there were so few contenders for leading, they eliminated the categories and just had Best Male and Best Female essentially (but called them all Featured Actors and Actresses).

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 2:41pm

They should give a whole bunch to people named Tony for that reason alone.

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 2:42pm

JBroadway said: "It’s wild to me that people have an easier time with imagining plays and musicals competing in the same category, than to imagine men and women competing in the same category. There’s an actual artistic difference between plays and musicals. There’s an artistic difference between male acting and female acting.

I agree that combining plays/musicals is a viable option for the design categories, but if they end up combining acting categories, there’s no reason not to get rid of the gender divide.

Luckily they don’t have to worry about musical revivals vs original musicals, because the number of eligible musical revivals is a big fat zero."

I agree that eliminating male and female for the performance categories is a valid option as well, but that only would solve the issues for actors.  We'd still only have 4 total musicals competing in every category, which means they're virtual locks in all the design, production, orchestration, direction categories regardless of quality.

And while I agree plays and musicals are different, I disagree that they're so different that they can't compete against each other.  At the end of the day, a performance is a performance, a direction is a direction, a lighting design is a lighting design, etc.  We don't separate between comedies and dramas when those performances and direction are vastly different, so I don't see the need to separate here.  Besides, Nathan Lane, Audra McDonald, Jack O'Brien, Joe Mantello, Brian MacDevitt and Scott Pask are just some of the examples of folks in the past 20 years who have won for both plays and musicals.  So if they're strong enough to compete at the highest level in both categories (plays and musicals), then why can't their play work compete against others' musical work or vice versa?  At least that's the way I look at it.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 3:15pm

@Broadway61004 I totally agree, I was just raising it as a point of comparison, because some were suggesting lumping acting categories together, while still keeping the gender divide, which just seems silly to me. If acting categories are being lumped together, I think gender should be the first division to be thrown out the window.

Yes, plays and musicals can compete against each other, as can supporting and leading roles. But both of those dichotomies have at least SOME basis in artistic difference. Separating genders has no artistic basis. 

As for acting categories vs. other categories: 

When I said "I agree that combining plays/musicals is a viable option for the design categories" that was my attempt to acknowledge that getting rid of the gender divide would only solve the problem in the acting cateogries, but I should have been clearer. I should have said, "a viable option for non-acting categories," including productions. 

From an artistic standpoint, I don't have a problem with plays and musicals competing together in a "best new show" category, mostly for the reasons you gave. But from a practical standpoint, I think it will raise multiple issues, and bias/money will blatantly interfere.

The New Play offerings are fairly strong, while the New Musical offerings are very weak. And while I wish it weren't the case, there's no way the Tony Awards have the guts to give the award to a play over a musical. There's way too much bias built into Broadway/Tony culture; the culture around the Tony Awards and the Broadway community in general is one that is designed to serve and prioritize musicals. If it really came down to it, I imagine that most voters would rather vote for Moulin Rouge over Slave Play or The Sound Inside, even if they were underwhelmed by Moulin Rouge. Especially if they actually use the term "Best Production" rather than "Best New Show," because using the language of "Production" will automatically give a spectacle like Moulin Rouge an unfair advantage over script-driven plays. 

If they were do go this route, I would also hope that they have a combined category for play scripts, and musical books. For years, many have already been advocating that there be a separation between "Best Play Production" and "Best Script of a Play." And if they make musicals and plays compete against each other in a "Best Production" category, it would be wholly unfair to deny the plays an opportunity to have their script awarded separately from the production, when the musicals do have that chance, and arguably don't even deserve it (not one eligible musical has a book worth nominating, IMO) 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 3:28pm

Damiensta said: "I don’t understand people on the board. Everyone complaining that what’s the point Bc Tony’s is about money.
 

Tony's what is about money? His pizza parlor? His sex tape? His love of lemurs? 

It's called the TONY awards. So, when you watch the TONYS make sure to let everyone know on your socials that the TONY awards are on so the TONYS can get awesome virtual ratings! 

#Tonys 

 

[Sunny11]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 4:54pm

 I think that today’s political climate would make removing the gender categories contentious.  I can read the headlines right now.              “ And the Tony goes to .. the Patriarchy”
 
It would be safer to merge Plays and Musicals because nobody outside of hardcore broadway fans will really give a hoot if one of those categories wins more awards than the other.

 

Updated On: 8/22/20 at 04:54 PM

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 4:59pm

@JBroadway I 100% agree there would unfortunately be bias towards the musicals that come into play if they combine the categories.  Unfortunately there's no real solution to make it fair this year, I feel like.  I just hope that we don't have a case where everything gets nominated just because there's nothing else to nominate.  As someone else brought up earlier, that 1995 year has never felt right: 2 new musicals, 2 musical revivals, 2 nominees for actress in a musical, just handing score to Sunset, etc.  I worry this year is going to end up feeling the same.

[helvizz]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 6:48pm

Do we know for sure the father in Jagged Little Pill can't be nominated in the Leading Actor category? Once more I can't help but compare this show to next to normal: the parents could be the leading actors, and the children could be considered featured. It seems like a good move to me to have another name in the Leading Actor category. Yes, I have seen the show, I know full well the father isn't the focus (it's either the mother or an ensemble piece, in my opinion), but it can still happen.

Updated On: 8/22/20 at 06:48 PM

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 7:24pm

Sutton Ross said: "I wasn't digging at you, it was a genuine question. You mentioned long ago you were a server around Times Square that occasionally goes to auditions. Many people are probably jealous they never or have not made it to Aaron's level. And no, I don't need to read any previews thread, he's a great actor in my book.

First off, there are no sex offenders on Broadway. And, to mention such when it had nothing at all to do with the discussion is a bit much. And, yes, I know what you’re talking about, I used to work at NYCB.

We all know what J was talking about. And considering what that person did and alllllllllllllll the national press coverage it received, no, it's not a "bit much". You seem to have a negative knee jerk reaction when you or another male is called out or "disrespected". It's very telling and pretty gross honestly."

I have zero knee jerk reaction to anything. I do not buy into and find disgusting the kind of frat boy mentality you just mentioned. No, not all men are the same.

The reason why I said there are no sex offenders on Broadway is because that is true. I want to make it clear that the reason I said that is because it isn’t something I feel should be said lightly or anything like that. the fact is that I take issues with how it’s dealt with. A guy who is into children, that’s bad and when they put him on the register, he’ll be joined by stupid guy who got caught taking a piss in the bushes of a park. Sad part of it all is that in eyes of the registry both are viewed as equally bad. Yet, we all know that one is a disgusting horrible crime, the other is just having your head up your ass level of stupid. 

Look, I think that what the dancer did was disgusting. But not enough to put him on any registry That said, I will make the correction every time. Once you’re on it, you  will have trouble getting work, can’t live near a school and scare the crap out of a community because they found out that a sex offender lives among them. That is the same thing that would happen if you’re into little boys or pissing in the park. I can understand a guy not being able to get work for being into little boys and on the registry for that. But, I think that it’s telling in its setup that if you pee in the bushes one night, your able to be on the registry as well, having to go through all the same issues as the pedophile. That’s wrong to me.  

 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 9:06pm

For the record, the 1985 Tony decision to drop the categories of Best Actor and Best Actress in a Musical stunk. Even if the pickings were slim, the Tonys still could've fielded credible candidates. For the record, ''Grind'' listed Ben Vereen, Timothy Nolen, Leilani Jones and Stubby Kaye all ABOVE the title. The Tonys have the discretion to bump performers up or down, regardless of their billing. For instance, no one in ''Urinetown'' or ''Starmites'' was above the title, but the Tonys chose to bump up three performers from each show to Leading. Daniel H. Jenkins in ''Big River'' should've been bumped up to Leading. Huck Finn is NOT a Featured role in that show. It's the primary one. And then there's Knut Knudson in ''Take Me Along''; he played Sid, a Leading role in the original 1959 production and which won Jackie Gleason the Tony.

To speculate, the 1985 Tony nominees for Leading Actor in a Musical could've been: Jenkins, Knudsen, Nolen and Vereen. The 1985 Tony nominees for Leading Actress in a Musical could've been: Jones, Mary Beth Peil (who played Anna in ''The King and I'' ), Beth Fowler (''Take Me Along'' ) and Dinah Manoff (''Leader of the Pack'' ).

Instead, the Tonys lumped actors playing principal AND supporting roles into ONE category: Featured Actor/Actress. They could've at least changed the title of the category to Outstanding Actor/Actress as an umbrella title for both. (This is what the SAG Awards do with their TV acting categories. Outstanding Performance by a Male or Female Actor includes both Leading and Supporting artists.)

Updated On: 8/22/20 at 09:06 PM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 8/22/20 at 10:59pm

Wayman_Wong said: "For instance, no one in ''Urinetown'' or ''Starmites'' was above the title, but the Tonys chose to bump up three performers from each show to Leading."

the Tonys themselves don't "bump" anything, the producers petition them to change the category

Updated On: 8/22/20 at 10:59 PM

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/23/20 at 12:19am

gypsy101 said: "the Tonys themselves don't "bump" anything, the producers petition them to change the category"

 

I have always been under the impression that the producers can petition one way or the other, but that it's ultimately up to the Tony Committee for final say. So unless I'm mistaken, it is in fact the Tonys themselves who "bump" the actors. 

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 8/23/20 at 12:42am

JBroadway is correct. Producers can petition to bump up (or down) performers, but the Tonys have the ultimate say in their placement.. 

''Sondheim on Sondheim'' had Barbara Cook and Vanessa Williams billed above the title, but the show wanted to bump Wiliams,to Featured (to avoid Cook and Williams from going head-to-head in Leading). But the Tonys ruled both of them were eligible for Featured.

'''Vanya and Sonya and Masha and Spike'' had Sigourney Weaver above the title and Kristine Nielsen below it, expecting her to compete for Featured, but the Tonys ruled to put Nielsen in Leading (and screwed Nielsen out of a Tony). Nielsen won in Featured at the Outer Critics.

''Newsies'' had Ben Fankhauser, who plays Davey, below the title. But by some idiotic logic, the Tonys ruled that he was Leading. Jack, played by Jeremy Jordan, is the leading role. Davey, Jack's friend, is a supporting role; he doesn't even have his own song. I once asked Fankhauser if he petitioned for Leading. He said no, and was baffled.

Regardless of what the producers want or petition, the Tonys have the last word and do what they want. Depending on their judgment (and whims) , they have moved performers around, so anything can happen.

 

Updated On: 8/23/20 at 12:42 AM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 8/23/20 at 1:32am

JBroadway said: "I have always been under the impression that the producers can petition one way or the other, but that it's ultimately up to the Tony Committee for final say. So unless I'm mistaken, it is in fact the Tonys themselves who "bump" the actors."

they don’t do the bumping without the request is what i meant

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 8/23/20 at 2:46am

I have re-read the 2019 Tony Rules and Regulations, and from what I can tell, the Tonys have the discretion to bump up (or down) performers in a category, regardless of whether the producers have petitioned:

''The written request from a producer shall not in any way infringe upon the exclusive right of the Tony Awards Administration Committee to a) define a show as ‘new’ or ‘revival’ and b) place an eligible candidate in a category other than that indicated by the opening night program or requested by the producer.''

I also found another Tony rule that could prove pertinent:

''Once the placement of an eligible candidate in a category has been decided by the Tony Awards Administration Committee, the placement cannot be changed at a later date.''

Since the Tony eligibility of ''Tina'' and ''Jagged Little Pill'' were ruled in January 2020, that means it might be too late to consider Daniel J. Watts and Sean Allan Krill for Leading Actor in a Musical. But given the unusual circumstances of this season, maybe they could revisit this issue.

Updated On: 8/23/20 at 02:46 AM