Tootsie Is Closing - Page 4

[IAMREADING]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 2:37pm

[duplicate sorry]

Updated On: 11/12/19 at 02:37 PM

[woeisme3]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 2:57pm

Loved this show, saw it twice and it really held up. I think it’ll do really well regionally!

[Owen22]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 5:17pm

ACL2006 said: "The musical is very different from the movie. I enjoyed the show, but its big weakness was its slow start. I really only enjoyed the show when Dorothy was on stage. The supporting roles were very forgettable."

Its big weakness was its score!

 

[YvanEhtNioj]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 5:28pm

I personally like the score. Not too noteworthy, but cute. "Whats Gonna Happen" is iconic. 

[DiscoCrows]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 5:54pm

Agree with most of what is being said here. As far as the score goes, I don't think it's the show's biggest pull at all, and to be fair, it's clearly not what the marketing agency was focusing on (rightfully so)- their entire marketing strategy encapsulated the notion that "This is the funniest new musical in years!", which is of course the most subjective argument ever, and compared to the many other musicals who are also regularly marketed via their comic appeal (The Book of Mormon, Beetlejuice, The Prom, Mean Girls, etc.), it just fails to stand apart. I think the score does what it needs to do, it functions and does it's job, and I think they were right for not approaching it as a new artistic masterpiece of any sort. But the "funny musical comedy" brand is very oversaturated in my opinion, and I think a more unique marketing strategy would've gone a long long way.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 6:33pm

JDonaghy4 said: "The Marquis isnt necessarily a disaster theater for the right show- i didnt see it, but i imagine On Your Feet fit in perfectly there."

I mean, by the time I saw it, On Your Feet really couldn't fill the theater. Most of the back orchestra was empty. And the show had some design issues that made it look even cheaper in that space. But yes, I do think a jukebox bio-musical fits better in that space. The Cher Show would have fit well in there, problems of selling out the theater aside. Did they alter the theater at all since Drowsy Chaperone? I don't remember feeling like the theater negatively affected my experience when I saw that show.

[Broadway Buddy]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 10:19pm

YvanEhtNioj said: "I personally like the score. Not too noteworthy, but cute. "Whats Gonna Happen" is iconic."

Thank you! Glad someone agrees with me. I agree that’s it’s not the best, but I don’t think it’s the worst. And I listen to that song like every day  

[springwillcome]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 10:46pm

The comments mocking the people who were upset about Tootsie being transphobic are honestly gross. If you are upset over twitter celebrations, considering that people lost their jobs, that is Maybe understandable - I feel for the ensemble members and actors who took what work they could get - but ultimately, trans folks celebrating that something that was genuinely causing them harm won’t be anymore is perfectly okay, and silencing their voices is gross. If an oppressed group speaks up about something that is causing harm to them, the Least you can do is listen. To mock their feelings of distress makes you *not an ally* and, dare I say, transphobic. I'm sure this conversation has been had, so I wont start a war here, but jeez. Did yall miss that part where tootsie was DM'ing apologies to trans people but wouldn't post anything public, and had to take some of their merch down because even they realized and admitted that it was offensive? The show itself was able to admit to some of its faults - not publicly, and it did its best to silence the people who were speaking out publicly - but still. Or were you all, yanno, Not Listening?

Updated On: 11/13/19 at 10:46 PM

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 11:02pm

What would they have publicly posted?

If you can let something as inconsequential as a Broadway show cause you so much pain, then that’s on you. The show isn’t dissing trans people and frankly has nothing to do with them. Just because their foisting their issues on the show doesn’t mean it’s suddenly the shows issue.

[springwillcome]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 11:14pm

I was referring specifically to their merch fiasco, which they easily could have made a more public statement about since they DM'd so many people anyway. I won't take the time to explain just what it is that's wrong with the show, because at this point it's closing anyway, but I'll drop a link to a nice twitter thread gets at it really well, and also perfectly details the misogyny in it (which obviously affects more than just trans folks, so maybe that would get yall to listen!) Last, it is...very possible for something that isn't directly about an issue to have a negative impact on it. That is...really nothing new or shocking so I genuinely don't have the energy to explain it. Countless trans people HAVE explained this time and time again, and it really is not that hard to listen (or to seek out their voices if you don't encounter this). Just because it isn't getting people directly hurt or killed does not mean "its all good lets turn a blind eye" lol

Thread: https://twitter.com/nonstandardrep/status/1121487599112265730?s=21

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 11/12/19 at 11:25pm

It’s a musical. Not a new law being passed.

I don’t believe in censoring art.

[springwillcome]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 12:10am

Well good thing nobody mentioned censorship? overall it closed bc of financial reasons and nobody is saying otherwise lol. but brushing off criticism, especially when it's actually important and not just "i didnt like it :/" is a pretty bold stance to take rather than just like...saying "I hear you, I can see how this is a bad thing, and I am willing to admit that this thing I like (that nobody is saying you can't like) is Maybe Not Perfect" lol (normally theres also plenty of room for disagreement but cis people don't get to declare when something isn't transphobic, and shouldnt talk over trans folks). Anyway, this is getting way off topic of the thread, so feel free to PM me if you want to chat more or have any questions. but in general......Listen to trans people and give them a space to be heard rather than silencing them (and dont mock them?? especially if youre a random person on the internet mocking an established journalist/critic). 

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 1:10am

springwillcome said: "Well good thing nobody mentioned censorship?overall it closed bc of financial reasons and nobody is saying otherwise lol. but brushing off criticism, especially when it's actually important and not just "i didnt like it :/" is a pretty bold stance to take rather than just like...saying "I hear you, I can see how this is a bad thing, and I am willing to admit that this thing I like (that nobody is saying you can't like)is Maybe Not Perfect" lol (normally theres also plenty of room for disagreement but cis people don't get to declare when something isn't transphobic, and shouldnt talk over trans folks). Anyway, this is getting way off topic of the thread, so feel free to PM me if you want to chat more or have any questions. but in general......Listento trans people and give them a space to be heard rather than silencing them (and dont mock them?? especially if youre a random person on the internet mocking an established journalist/critic)."

I thought thanksgiving break was in a few weeks. Did it come early?  

[springwillcome]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 2:48am

Nope, it’s in two weeks! Don’t worry though, I got my Professor’s and parent’s permission before partaking in this super adult conversation. I, as a young adult, would certainly never expect to have my voice heard or respected under any other circumstances. Anyway, it’s past my bedtime, so best be going now I guess!

[ModernMillie3]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 4:25am

Get some good sleep, perhaps tomorrow your middle school will teach you about paragraphs, run on sentences, and good punctuation. Andy Karl has never looked so bummed out to be in a photo, maybe you are the problem here?  

If you can let something as inconsequential as a Broadway show cause you so much pain, then that’s on you. The show isn’t dissing trans people and frankly has nothing to do with them.

Absolutely NOTHING to do with them. It's so funny, when the show ended I thought about how people were saying it was transphobic. Yeah no. It was not. In any way, shape, or form. The people who said that never saw the show, never listened to the show, and clearly knew nothing about the show. The faux outrage thing has to go, it's tiresome for all of us. 

[magictodo123]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 6:11am

Kad said: "The "transphobic" controversy was a tempest in a teapot. It receivedno coverage in major publications that would actually have affected general public opinion and ticket sales.

I think what really did the show in was a pretty bland marketing campaign that overestimated the ticket-selling appeal of the title."

THAT is the perfect way to describe what that was. A+

 

I agree with the marketing--those people laughing?? I cringed every time I saw it. oof. 

[Midnight Radio]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 8:35am

West End Dreamgirls could fill those seats

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 9:29am

Midnight Radio said: "West End Dreamgirls could fill those seats"

Especially if Amber Riley is back, please please please!!! 

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 10:58am

springwillcome said: "The comments mocking the people who were upset about Tootsie being transphobic are honestly gross. If you are upset over twitter celebrations, considering that people lost their jobs, that is Maybeunderstandable - I feel for the ensemble members and actors who took what work they could get - but ultimately, trans folks celebrating that something that was genuinely causing them harm won’t be anymore isperfectly okay, and silencing their voices is gross. If an oppressed group speaks up about something that is causing harm to them, the Least you can do is listen. To mock their feelings of distress makes you *not an ally* and, dare I say, transphobic. I'm sure this conversation has been had, so I wont start a war here, but jeez. Did yall miss that part where tootsie was DM'ing apologies to trans people but wouldn't post anything public, and had to take some of their merch down because even they realized and admitted that it was offensive? The show itself was able to admitto some of its faults - not publicly, and it did its best to silence the people who were speaking out publicly - but still.Or were you all, yanno, Not Listening?"

I’m a professor of theatre studies specialising in queer theatre among others. I’ve presented at conferences where Judith Butler was the Keynote. 
 

Can you explain what was transphobic about the show? Thank you. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 12:58pm

The comments mocking the people who were upset about Tootsie being transphobic are honestly gross. 

"Mocking"?  What comments were mocking those people?

and silencing their voices is gross.

Nobody was silenced.  Everyone has voiced their opinion.

Or were you all, yanno, Not Listening?

The "Twitter thread" you posted appears to be just one person (you perhaps?) enumerating the various layers of subtext mined in order to excavate sources of offense.  All of which were countered previously at length back when the subject originally came up.  You can read all about it here: https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1115954&page=1
 

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 12:59pm

It didn’t get word of mouth
It’s a famous movie specific to one generation. Millenials didn’t grow up with it.
The Tony performance was bland
It changes so much of what made the original fun but dated in the soap opera world

In this current political climate, a straight man cross dressing to take a role from a female actress doesn’t sit right with everyone.


ALL of this to say I’m sure it was hilarious and Santino was great.

But the above reasons make me feel like this show closing checks out.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 1:01pm

What might make Mrs Doubtfire more successful is that it’s beloved by MILLENIALS.


As well as the story is more about him wanting to be with his children and the trauma of divorce than “a struggling desperate actor”

Automatically it is more compelling to a wider audience

[ellbellthomps]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 1:06pm

ACL2006 said: "The musical is very different from the movie. I enjoyed the show, but its big weakness was its slow start. I really only enjoyed the show when Dorothy was on stage. The supporting roles were very forgettable."

See, I think it's the opposite. Sandy was the funniest character. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 1:59pm

What might make Mrs Doubtfire more successful is that it’s beloved by MILLENIALS. 

Jesus. Are you actually trying to start a generational war because you believe all Millennials are the same and that they all believe they need to be the focus demographic in order for a show to succeed?

As well as the story is more about him wanting to be with his children and the trauma of divorce than “a struggling desperate actor” 

Automatically it is more compelling to a wider audience

If it follows the same story, it will be as compelling as it was the first time around.  Whether or not the subject is more compelling to anyone is purely subjective.  I didn't find the subject "more compelling" at all when the movie came out.  Personally, I never thought of it as anything more than the "Robin Williams does his schtick in drag" movie and the selling point was ALWAYS Robin Williams.

The Millennials I know did grow up with Tootsie because it was already a classic (nominated for 9 Oscars, including Best Picture) and I assume they enjoyed classic comedies of critical acclaim.  If you didn't, then perhaps you're not like all Millennials?

[Kad]

Posted: 11/13/19 at 2:24pm

I think Mrs. Doubtfire's enduring appeal is overestimated, to be honest. It exemplifies a very dated type of family film from the 90s, sorts that unlike, say, animated Disney films from the same period, don't have a lot of cultural cache today. 

It's also, unlike Tootsie, a lesser work- and one built around a singular, inimitable talent.