WGA strike impact on the 2023 Tonys- Page 10

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 2:20pm

HogansHero said: "I guess my first thought was what was the point of posting it. But my principal reaction is that, contrary to your description of it ("improving accuracy" ), it is actually materially inaccurate. We do not know, and will not at least until tomorrow, that the "awards will not be televised." I am pretty confident that they will be, in some form. Additionally, and of greater concern than this sloppiness, the "fix" suggests that this strike is about underpayment of writers. That gets it very very wrong, and does a tremendous disservice (to the point that one has to wonder if that was not the point of the tweet) to the serious existential issues that far exceed the current pay rate in importance."

That's a really long-winded critique of a meme that was clearly just trying to make the point that it was the AMPTP's fault and not the WGA's fault... Maybe if you weren't acting like such a know it all in all your posts in this thread, people wouldn't feel the need to call you out for your condescending remarks.

[James885]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 2:56pm

I agree with everyone who has pointed out that the fact that Broadway is so dependent on this one single telecast (with a shrinking audience) to provide a box office boost for shows actually speaks to bigger issues with how Broadway is marketing itself to audiences nationwide. Perhaps this will be a wake-up call for the powers that be to realize that it's not 1996 anymore and that there are a myriad of ways besides just the Tony telecast for shows to better promote themselves and build word of mouth.

Updated On: 5/14/23 at 02:56 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 4:15pm

Mr. Wormwood said: "That's a really long-winded critique of a meme that was clearly just trying to make the point that it was the AMPTP's fault and not the WGA's fault... Maybe if you weren't acting like such a know it all in all your posts in this thread, people wouldn't feel the need to call you out for your condescending remarks."

1. My "critique" was 122 words long. That's long-winded? LOL

2. I understood the point (assuming that was in fact the point) but my point was that it was wrong. As I said, to characterize this strike as being about money is to misapprehend it.

3. I am quite certain I am not acting as a know it all. For the most part in this thread I have repeatedly reiterated that neither I nor anyone knows what is going to happen. In fact that was a part of my post that you seem to object to. The fact is (a) this is an important issue and (b) the tweet got it wrong. This is something we DO know so pointing it out the error is important and if you prefer to criticize that so be it but a lot of people on here tell me they like when I keep the facts separated from the nonsense. Sorry if you are not one of them. If someone posts something that is wrong or misleading, it is not condescending to correct them. If people's skin is thin, perhaps they should check facts before the post. There is really no excuse for posting erroneous things and then expecting them not to be corrected. 

 

[DrMonicaDeMoneco]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 6:01pm

Ayi yi yi some of you people are exhausting. 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 6:27pm

^ agree

Updated On: 5/14/23 at 06:27 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 6:53pm

Regardless of what everyone is saying, the Tony awards do have an impact on a show's future. That's not really something up for debate because we have the data to prove it. So, with no awards being given out, it totally sucks for the struggling shows - which seems to be basically all the new musicals. 

[aislestorm2]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 8:25pm

I think the new "let's run for only 10 weeks, charge obscene prices, and recoup by closing performance" is a really obnoxious way to produce anything. Where are we, Vegas? 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 8:31pm

aislestorm2 said: "I think the new "let's run for only 10 weeks, charge obscene prices, and recoup by closing performance" is a really obnoxious way to produce anything. Where are we, Vegas?"

To be fair, it seems like only plays can pull that off. Musicals are too expensive for that to work. And for plays, there used to be a lot more open-ended plays but it seems like the only way for plays to sell tickets now is to put a big name in it and then that big name only does a limited run...

[Kad]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 8:32pm

RippedMan said: "Regardless of what everyone is saying, the Tony awards do have an impact on a show's future. That's not really something up for debate because we have the data to prove it. So, with no awards being given out, it totally sucks for the struggling shows - which seems to be basically all the new musicals."

But how much of an impact, exactly? We’ve gone through this a lot- it seems like in recent years, it hasn’t changed the fortunes of many shows. It’s at best given them a few more months. This isn’t a sustainable model to build a model around. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 8:39pm

Which shows? Every Best Musical winner - besides A Strange Loop and Passion - have turned into hits and made a profit. So, there's that. 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 8:51pm

RippedMan said: "Which shows? Every Best Musical winner - besides A Strange Loop and Passion - have turned into hits and made a profit. So, there's that."

This year could be an interesting test. Is it the Best Musical win (can advertise that, etc) or is it winning it on a Tonys telecast? It's particularly interesting this year with a frontrunner that is struggling at the box office. There are plenty of people who aren't convinced Kimberly Akimbo can run much longer regardless of what happens with the Tonys. I still think the Best Musical winner (likely Kimberly) will benefit from a Tony win bump even without the Tonys in their traditional format.

What I think could suffer are some shows that could use the exposure of the Tony Awards to win some awards and, perhaps more importantly, put on a good performance. In particular, I think it will be interesting to see the trajectory of Shucked, SLIH & NYNY.

In general, shows with a lot of nominations/wins and/or a strong Tonys performance tend to perk up at the box office for a bit but it doesn't last all that long. But that could also be a natural uptick with the summer months.

This year might put some of those theories to the test with four new musicals all with murky futures at the moment and a non-traditional Tonys (whether it be non-televised, pre-taped, postponed, etc). I still think postponement is the worst option.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 9:18pm

I agree. I think people thinking the awards don't mean much just isn't true. Look at the Oscars, Emmys, Grammys, I mean they may not mean EVERYTHING like they once did, but they mean something. I for one might not be interested in something but once it wins a slew of awards it's suddenly on my radar. 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 5/14/23 at 10:12pm

I would announce the winners in an event just like announcing the nominees on June 11. Let shows that win possibly get a "bounce" in the box office for the summer season. If the writers' strike ends fairly quickly, put on a show with just performances of shows from this season. You can have hosts inform audience at home that show has won Tony or was nominated before they perform. It is not the best scenario but sometimes you just need to adapt and do the best you can in an unusual situation.

[bear88]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 1:18am

Mr. Wormwood said: "RippedMan said: "Which shows? Every Best Musical winner - besides A Strange Loop and Passion - have turned into hits and made a profit. So, there's that."

This year could be an interesting test. Is it the Best Musical win (can advertise that, etc) or is it winning it on a Tonys telecast? It's particularly interesting this year with a frontrunner that is struggling at the box office. There are plenty of people who aren't convinced Kimberly Akimbo can run much longer regardless of what happens with the Tonys. I still think the Best Musical winner (likely Kimberly) will benefit from a Tony win bump even without the Tonys in their traditional format.

What I think could suffer are some shows that could use the exposure of the Tony Awards to win some awards and, perhaps more importantly, put on a good performance. In particular, I think it will be interesting to see the trajectory of Shucked, SLIH & NYNY.

In general, shows with a lot of nominations/wins and/or a strong Tonys performance tend to perk up at the box office for a bit but it doesn't last all that long. But that could also be a natural uptick with the summer months.

This year might put some of those theories to the test with four new musicals all with murky futures at the moment and a non-traditional Tonys (whether it be non-televised, pre-taped, postponed, etc). I still think postponement is the worst option."

The trouble with drawing too many conclusions from this year is that there are too many variables. Let's say Kimberly Akimbo wins Best Musical and gets only a mild bounce that peters out pretty quickly. Is that because there was no traditional Tony Awards telecast or is it because the show is just too hard to sell even with awards and critical praise? We would be able to debate that but won't really know the answer.

While I agree with Kad and HogansHero that some better model is needed to promote new shows, I also think it makes plenty of difference how new shows do at the Tonys, both in terms of wins - especially Best Musical - and performances. It's still a three-hour infomercial on network television for going to New York City and seeing Broadway shows or, failing that, catching them on tour. There are still plenty of people who don't monitor social media about what shows to see. They just wander by the TKTS booth and pick something they've heard something good about.

The smaller, quirky shows that have won Best Musical in recent years - Fun Home, The Band's Visit, Hadestown - all went on to recoup. Fun Home, at least, recouped on tour too. I'm not sure about the other two, but the Hadestown tour is now on second rounds of major markets. A Strange Loop, which isn't even touring at all, is the exception. I didn't see Fun Home on Broadway and The Band's Visit closed before I got back. But I saw both on tour - twice, in Fun Home's case.

Before all of this happened, I was operating on the assumption that Kimberly Akimbo would be a weak Best Musical winner, at least on Broadway. Nothing that's happened thus far suggests that word of mouth is turning the show into something that tapped into the zeitgeist, as Dear Evan Hansen did. I've thought it would probably close in January. Could be wrong, as I'm just guessing. That said, I am a little more bullish about its chances on tour, because it will be in every subscription package and won't have to do fantastic, especially as most of the tour stops are only for a week. It will be touted as a Best Musical winner and that will be enough for a solid tour.

But the other new musicals, and Kimberly Akimbo as well, may lose an invaluable opportunity to promote themselves either to extend their Broadway runs to or hype their upcoming tours. This is an unusual year, in that - with the partial exception of & Juliet - there are no new musicals that are doing well at the box office. There's no Six, no MJ, just new musicals that are limping along while all of the attention has gone to the revivals and a few plays. I don't think a big splashy Tony Awards broadcast, even if it happens in some form that people watch, is going to change that.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 1:37am

I think a win and a program would help KA a lot. It's a tiny theater and doesn't need a ton to be profitable. It could survive on the bridge & tunnel crowd for awhile before taping into the tourist crowd. I just think it's a weird show, weird title, and no one really knows and prices are too high to take gambles.

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 4:28am

RippedMan said: "I think a win and a program would help KA a lot. It's a tiny theater and doesn't need a ton to be profitable. It could survive on the bridge & tunnel crowd for awhile before taping into the tourist crowd. I just think it's a weird show, weird title, and no one really knows and prices are too high to take gambles."

Agreed. We were talking about this in last week's grosses thread that it's probably never going to be a $1 million+ show. Not without stars and not in that theatre. But, it doesn't need to be doing THAT much better than it currently is to consistently turn a profit and run for a while longer. If it could consistently do $600-700K, I think it stays open for the rest of the year. 

[Mr.Liir]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 9:45am

I think an issue here that is being overlooked is that this goes beyond the Tony telecast. Shucked (and I'm sure others) had late-night show (Colbert, etc.) performances lined up, as well as morning show performances and highlights, and people do watch those shows and have things put on their radar because of them. Because of the strike, the month of show promotion ahead of the Tonys isn't happening - so there is a void of buzz already for any of these shows that would ordinarily be hyping themselves up and informing the world they exist.

Coupled with that, the lack of the actual Tony telecast is just the nail in the coffin. No, Tonys aren't make or break for most shows (though they absolutely help), but the whole Tony season and buzz around these "new" shows (I know some have been around for a while) was extinguished barely before it had a chance to begin. There is no pre, during, or post-Tony buzz now and that is devastating.  So while we have an industry issue if the Tonys are the only factor making or breaking a show, it's not just about that. The strike extends to a whole lot more than the telecast, and that's just the final straw. It's a really rough situation all around.  

I'm having an issue with people who are getting mad at anyone in the theatre industry for being upset about this, throwing out "solidarity" and making it seem like people are whining or being trivial. I have seen very few people say they don't support the strike - even people who stand to lose A LOT because of it - but it's OKAY to acknowledge this is going to hit a lot of people very hard, and it's unfortunate and unfair to Broadway. Does it need to happen? Yeah, probably. Is it okay to acknowledge it sucks and have empathy for the people and art caught in the crossfire? Absolutely.

Broadway has had a hell of a time since COVID (and even before, if we're honest), and this just feels like another huge setback for an industry that is limping along and still undergoing physical therapy. I absolutely think there should be solidarity, but it would feel better if there was more empathy for the theatre industry as well from the picket lines. It's okay to say "this needs to happen, and we all support the strike, but this is really awful and our hearts go out to all affected." Words don't do anything to give people paychecks, but it helps soften the blow.

Updated On: 5/15/23 at 09:45 AM

[BJR]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 10:18am

Mr.Liir said: "Broadway has had a hell of a time since COVID (and even before, if we're honest), and this just feels like another huge setback for an industry that is limping along and still undergoing physical therapy. I absolutely think there should be solidarity, but it would feel better if there was more empathy for the theatre industry as well from the picket lines. It's okay to say "this needs to happen, and we all support the strike, but this is really awful and our hearts go out to all affected." Words don't do anything to give people paychecks, but it helps soften the blow."

Co-sign.

And worth pointing out while the Tonys are no longer the only way to get footage out, marketing in any industry often relies on earned media, where possible. It isn't only the telecast, but they segment run on every news network across the country and beyond, mentioning your show and possibly airing a clip. Marketing money literally cannot buy.

[Jumpin_J]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 12:56pm

It's called show BUSINESS. Producers have a fiscal responsibility to return money back to investors as efficiently as possible. If you don't like it, blame the system that producers are forced to work under. It's not their fault. 

[ivy3]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 1:35pm

Deadline is reporting

"No decisions were reached at today’s emergency meeting of the Tony Awards Management Committee,"

"The key issue to be determined is whether or not the Tony organizers will stick to the June 11 date, televised or not. Sources close to the situation say that Tony organizers are making a last-ditch effort to convince the WGA to issue the strike waiver that would allow the June 11 ceremony to go on as planned with CBS airing the broadcast and Paramount+ streaming the event."

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 1:38pm

Link to the above:

Tony Awards Path Still Undetermined Following Committee Meeting Today And Last-Ditch Efforts For WGA Strike Waiver

https://deadline.com/2023/05/tony-awards-decision-wga-strike-waiver-cbs-1235366882/

[B212323]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 2:01pm

This is squarely on the Broadway League for not getting ahead of this - they did not even try to negotiate with the WGA before the strike was called. It's mind blowing to me that they didn't write material before the strike deadline and just slot in the nominee names. Unfortunately if the Tonys don't air in a timely manner most likely several new shows will close by Labor Day. How they didn't see this was going to be an issue?! 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 2:38pm

B212323 said: "This is squarely on the Broadway League for not getting ahead of this - they did not even try to negotiate with the WGA before the strike was called. It's mind blowing to me that they didn't write material before the strike deadline and just slot in the nominee names. Unfortunately if the Tonys don't air in a timely manner most likely several new shows will close by Labor Day. How they didn't see this was going to be an issue?!"

You seem to be misinformed:

– The League claims the ceremony was pre-written ahead of the strike beginning (meaning, ahead of the noms being announced). Slotting in names is the same as writing the ceremony from scratch with "scabs" or non-union writers. And without cooperation of the WGA, there's going to be inevitable picketing, backlash, a host dropping out, etc.

– The job of a strike is to disrupt. The League's hands were tied and the WGA likely wasn't interested in entertaining convos about compromise ahead of the strike –– just as they weren't interested in making a deal this early in the strike.

– It seems pretty clear the Tonys will happen June 11, televised or not (as a news conference or something else). Shows struggling at the B.O. that don't win would be LUCKY to last til Labor Day. If you're bleeding money, cut your losses as soon as you don't see a bump.

– There has been much talk about "the industry" as a whole being negatively impacted here. But as we know, the Tonys really only benefit a couple of shows a year. The benefits for all others are negligible or nill, and they may incur MORE costs than they'd ever recoup by doing a musical number on a fictional live telecast.

[B212323]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 2:53pm

I didn't know that it was prewritten I hadn't seen that reported anywhere but according to Matt Belloni of Puck news the Broadway league did not reach out to WGA prior to the strike as many in the industry expected them to do. The WGA set the precedent with the 1988 Tonys and 2007 Grammys - it was not out of the realm of possibility. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/15/23 at 3:19pm

A development, per Caitlin Huston at THR:

"The Tony Awards Management Committee will appeal to the Writers Guild of America and ask the guild not to picket the televised awards ceremony, to potentially move forward with the broadcast, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. ... But even if the WGA decides not to picket, it is unclear whether talent, most of whom are SAG-AFTRA and Actors’ Equity members, as well as host Ariana Debose would be willing to cross the picket lines. ...

Another potential option would be presenting the awards at a non-televised event on June 11, but then the nominated productions, most of whom perform on the telecast, would lose out on the marketing boost from being broadcast to a national viewership. Postponement is not an option on the table."