Mike Faist, Lucas Hedges to star in BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN stage play in London- Page 2

[RippedMan]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 11:12am

I’m a fan of both arguments: let actors act but also think it’s become exhausting for rewarding straight men for playing gay characters. 
 

But my biggest complaint is the “tragic gay play.” I’m over that. I don’t need to see anymore queer stories where someone has to come out or something tragic happens. Show me a gay person who is thriving and enjoying life. 
 

This play doesn’t need to exist 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 11:14am

Chase Miller said: "The original actors from the film have said that Ennis and Jack aren't exclusively gay. They're just 2 people who fell in love. I believe both characters are meant to be seen as bisexual or "fluid". I don't have a problem with this."


Yeah this sounds exactly like something straight men would say.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 11:27am

RippedMan said: "I’m a fan of both arguments: let actors act but also think it’s become exhausting for rewarding straight men for playing gay characters.


But my biggest complaint is the “tragic gay play.” I’m over that. I don’t need to see anymore queer stories where someone has to come out or something tragic happens. Show me a gay person who is thriving and enjoying life.


This play doesn’t need to exist"

But people don't write many stories about ANYONE just thriving and enjoying life.  There is no conflict in that.  My students ponder all the time why we never read "happy" literature...because not  much of that exists, and there simply isn't any "there" there.

I don't have an opinion on the gay/straight issue here, as I'm not sure it's about what I think....but I think there is dangerous territory to consider if the actor's background needs to be taken into consideration for casting.  (And as a Jewish woman, I've considered this, trying to understand.)  Where does that stop?

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 12:42pm

You raise valid points dramamama.

But since the days of the Hays code an inordinate amount of LGBT stories involved them dying from murder, suicide or disease before the curtain fell. The Hays code declared that all “deviant” characters must be “punished” and the lesson stuck. Then the AIDS epidemic came and artists rightly wanted to discuss it. So many of the  gay plays and films ended weeping in a hospital room.

There are plenty of stories about other groups that find conflict without killing off their characters. I am no longer the target audience for those that present all gay men as doomed.

 

 

Updated On: 3/20/23 at 12:42 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 1:04pm

Food for thought, thanks, Ms Sally.

[blaxx]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 1:15pm

dramamama611 said: 
I don't have an opinion on the gay/straight issue here, as I'm not sure it's about what I think....but I think there is dangerous territory to consider if the actor's background needs to be taken into consideration for casting. (And as a Jewish woman, I've considered this, trying to understand.) Where does that stop?"

That's the thing, it has barely started. People deserve to be featured and seen regardless of their background.

Yet, we still favor the white cis straight people to be the one chosen to play everything, under the excuse that a performer should be allowed to play everything. 

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 1:23pm

It appears a number of these responses regarding 'let actors act' come from the audience side of the theater population. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't take into account the performer side.

I feel like I've typed these words here many times in the past but, as an out gay actor approaching 50, you cannot imagine the more ridiculous, awful things said to me during the casting process...by 'allies.' 

'Don't go swishing down 9th Avenue. You never know who's watching.'

'Being out will make you uncastable.' 

'Could you straighten those writs please before I wrap them in splints?'

The last one was said to me by a gay director...while I was playing a gay character. What now?

This business is terrible. Every performer has been treated reprehensibly by 'well-meaning' collaborators. 

Of course...straight actors should be able to play gay roles and vice versa. But until there's parity in those casting decisions, creatives could at least try make a difference by making an effort to cast queer actors in queer roles. 

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 1:32pm

I wish everybody the best with it, I truly do, however I have to agree with the 'tragic gay play' comment.

I'm so bored of seeing us represented as depressed, constantly battling dark demons, hating on our sexuailty and then dying. I feel like so much Queer Theatre is designed to show us constant victims. 

As you can see by my profile pic, I'm bringing the 90s queer thriller film BOUND to the stage. One of the reasons I wanted to do it (other than I think it's superb, obviously) is that the queer character are NOT victims, they are bad ass, smart women who ain't ashamed of the fact they are queer.

I think the days of eternal victim status are over, it would be nice if more people could show that. 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 1:51pm

Looks like a lot of posters missed the bit about Lucas Hedges clearly being bisexual based on what he has said in interviews.

Anyway, my first reaction to this was, "Wow, the Brits really like to take famous movies and turn them into plays." A musical or opera I can understand, but I don't get the point of taking films like Brokeback Mountain, The Graduate, When Harry Met Sally, Shakespeare In Love, etc. and essentially having a new set of actors do a paraphrased version of the screenplay onstage. But this is a "play with music" so who knows. Seems mostly like a cash grab to me.

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 1:56pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "Looks like a lot of posters missed the bit about Lucas Hedges clearly being bisexual based on what he has said in interviews.”


We all missed the bit about Lucas Hedges “clearly” being bisexual because he’s never said he’s bisexual.

”I recognize myself as existing on [a] spectrum: Not totally straight, but also not gay and not necessarily bisexual.”

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 2:02pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "Anyway, my first reaction to this was, "Wow, the Brits really like to take famous movies and turn them into plays." A musical or opera I can understand, but I don't get the point of taking films like Brokeback Mountain,The Graduate, When Harry Met Sally, Shakespeare In Love,etc. and essentially having a new set of actors do a paraphrased version of the screenplay onstage. But this is a "play with music" so who knows. Seems mostly like a cash grab to me."

It's based on the short story, not the film, so the dialogue and structure will be quite different. The Larry McMurtry–Diana Ossana film script is not the source material. The music element should also help to free it up a bit.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 2:20pm

TotallyEffed said: "The Distinctive Baritone said: "Looks like a lot of posters missed the bit about Lucas Hedges clearly being bisexual based on what he has said in interviews.”


We all missed the bit about Lucas Hedges “clearly” being bisexual because he’s never said he’s bisexual.

”I recognize myself as existing on [a] spectrum: Not totally straight, but also not gay and not necessarily bisexual.”

 

I stand corrected. Well, whatever he wants to call it, if he is attracted to both men and women, then he fits his character pretty well then...

[B212323]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 2:32pm

They must have pushed the release date for Challengers - Mike Faist would need to be available for press a few weeks before. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 2:46pm

The Other One said: "Was the film version of Brokeback Mountain ruined or enhanced by the performances of Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal for you? "

I hope you are kidding.  Heath Ledger gave one of the greatest performances of the 21st century, and Jake G was excellent in a smaller, less emotional role.  In the year in which PS Hoffman won the Oscar for Capote, Ledger won the New York Film Critics award for Best Actor.  Heath Ledger’s last scene is one of the most heartbreaking in all cinema.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 2:49pm

I think that's the point he was making.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 2:54pm

Ledger was brilliant and in a just world would have won his Oscar for BROKEBACK. I'd have been more than fine with PSH winning for THE MASTER (instead of Christoph Waltz for Django) and/or DOUBT (instead of Ledger for Dark Knight, since in this world Ledger would already have an Oscar). PSH's win for CAPOTE was a very "Oscary" part, like Brendan Fraser this year.

[George in DC]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 3:30pm

songanddanceman2 said: "I wish everybody the best with it, I truly do, however I have to agree with the 'tragic gay play' comment.

I'm so bored of seeing us represented as depressed, constantly battling dark demons, hating on our sexuailty and then dying. I feel like so much Queer Theatre is designed to show us constant victims.

As you can see by my profile pic, I'm bringing the 90s queer thriller film BOUND to the stage. One of the reasons I wanted to do it (other than I think it's superb, obviously) is that the queer character are NOT victims, they are bad ass, smart women who ain't ashamed of the fact they are queer.

I think the days of eternal victim status are over, it would be nice if more people could show that."

I could not agree more. I am also tired of the repressed, closeted couple whose love affair ends tragically. There are a lot of problems a strong out gay couple could be faced with. I wish the show luck but I have no interest in ever seeing this.

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 3:47pm

There's lots of stories about the awful lives gays had to live. And Jews. And African Americans. And Asian Americans. And women. That pain, those stories make good drama. I'm confused and curious about the argument of "I don't want to see stories where gay people aren't happy" yet I imagine some of the people saying that will rave (and have raved) over recent shows about one of those other groups I mentioned, dealing with the pain of the world they live or lived in but I'm curious if you would portray those groups as constant victims, as well? 

"Brokeback Mountain" is a modern classic, even a modern masterpiece as it's been called. And I know it's been touched on in this thread already but in the almost 20 years since the film was released it's very easy for a generation of people to forget just how revolutionary that casting was and how Ledger (especially) responding to questions about him "playing gay" was perceived as just a remarkable thing for an actor to do in a huge big budget Hollywood film. And even though it ends with lots of tears, it ends with love. And yes that last scene with Ledger and the jacket is one of the best scenes ever filmed.  

I think it's a beautiful story. It's not a film I watch regularly because it is so sad but so many of my favorite films are tear jerkers that deal with very serious issues. I got my tickets for this for a few times over the course of it's run and I can't wait. And who knows, maybe Jake will show up one day I'm there and we can go have some beans (on toast).

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 3:48pm

It feels a little disingenuous to me when I hear people say "how many gay actors have won oscars for straight roles?" in this context because this is a play, not a movie. If the question were how many gay actors have won Tonys for straight (or sexuality-unspecified) roles, it's a different list--off the top of my head, Simon Russell Beale, Ben Platt, Gavin Creel, Billy Porter (I know there's disagreement about this character's sexuality), David Hyde Pierce, Andre de Shields, and I'm sure there's more, not to mention plenty of gay actors who have won for gay roles. It's a slightly different world in theatre vs. film/tv.

And, as a gay man (I feel weird about using that phrase to give credence to my opinion, but I suppose it's relevant, and clearly there is NOT a unanimous opinion in our community) I feel uncomfortable with the idea that actors MUST be out to play a certain role. That controversy about the young man in the Heartstopper show made me so sad, that actor was on a journey of self-discovery and needed to come out on his own terms but received so much online hate for taking his time in his coming out process. Mark Harris recently wrote an interesting article about the "queer-baiting" discourse around that incident and Harry Styles, it was well worth the read.

I always assumed that Mike Faist was gay and just not famous enough for his sexuality to be of public record? I didn't think it was a matter of being closeted for the sake of his career, but rather that nobody cared enough to report that information. That's just a total assumption, though, for all I know he could be straight. Personally, I don't really care all that much. I'm not apathetic to the issue, but it's undeniable that the politics of representation in the theatre have shifted massively in the last decade or two.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 3:57pm

dramamama611 said: "I think that's the point 

I read the original post as written.  There did not seem to be any irony in its wording.

Updated On: 3/20/23 at 03:57 PM

[JasonC3]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 3:58pm

And over on the other site, posters are debating the casting of two white actors.

[nealb1]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 4:04pm

Looks really good.  

Even if these 2 actors are gay - so?  What does that have to do with going to the theatre and seeing the show?  One's private life, is just that.  Their private life, regardless of the profession.  
 

[Play Esq.]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 4:24pm

nealb1 said: "Looks really good.

Even if these 2 actors are gay - so? What does that have to do with going to the theatre and seeing the show? One's private life, is just that. Their private life, regardless of the profession.
"

This exactly! And can we PLEASE get on the far more important topic of objectifying these beautiful men appearing in a gay play (with music)?

[dearalanaaaa]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 4:28pm

This whole thread is really interesting to see, because both of the men in question are not publicly and clearly straight. Lucas Hedges has stated that he’s in between, and although Mike Faist has only had girlfriends, he hasn’t been in the spotlight for a long time between WSS, ICIWID & Hansen. I don’t see any issue with the casting, although tragic gay stories are an oversaturated market in theatre. We have so many gay men in theatre and on broadway, and it’s a STEREOTYPE that gay men enjoy musicals and broadway. I don’t see any form of underrepresentation, and they are actors. They don’t owe us anything about their personal lives, it isn’t relevant to their jobs. We have nothing about this play other than the press release and the image and it already gets hate? Where was this hate when Ben Platt played Leo Frank or Brandon Uranowitz played Mendel? Or on the reverse since, when Christian Borle played Marvin, a gay man, but he is equally as undisclosed? It’s so unnecessary to be so upset on this casting when there’s so many factors and the actors are doing their job and don’t owe us- it’s the directors that make the decision on who to cast in a role and if they fit. Personally, I hope this has a transfer to New York at some point, because I’d love to see it for myself.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 3/20/23 at 4:30pm

Gross. Nope. Objectifying anyone in 2023 isn't the move. That anyone would say that is pure cringe.

If people don't want to see this then... Don't. I just solved this non problem for you.